Can I have some hand-holding, please (living with others issues - long)

[peachgirl]

This is my first time posting so please be gentle. I've tried to keep it as short as I can but it's still ended up this long...

I own my flat and rent the second bedroom to a couple. Initially I advertised for just one person, but I agreed to meet them and we got on very well. The girlfriend, from now on called Sweetie, is great. The problem is the boyfriend, from now on referred to as Spencer (like in Made In Chelsea, because he's exactly like him both in looks and personality!). I can't even pinpoint how, or when, it all started. They moved in during the second half of January. Gradually he became more and more hostile to the idea of me having DP, friends, and even family members over, which I mentioned happens twice a month when they moved in. It was so slow and subtle I barely realised until this incident in March - my real, 'DING DING DING something ain't right' moment.

Sweetie and Spencer came home one Sunday when I had DP and my brother over. I greeted them and introduced my brother, Sweetie said a cheery hello, and Spencer muttered, "oh, DP's here" - zero acknowledgement of my brother - and went into their room and slammed the door! He had previously seen me upset after a silly fight with DP (which was sorted out the next day), and told me to "get rid of this dude", and since then he's been hideous when DP is around, but not through any concern for me - it's because Spencer's irritated that I didn't take his advice.

Things really came to a head about a month ago.

Sweetie was away for the weekend and he'd had a terrible screaming argument down the phone at her on Saturday morning (which I could hear through the walls), so I'd avoided him all day. In the evening, when I thought he'd calmed down, I tried to bring up that he and/or Sweetie had left the gas hob on (and burning) and gone to work on Friday morning, and I'd only noticed because I went into the kitchen before work. He immediately got defensive and started yelling at me that I'd done it after dinner one time, and I was a hypocrite, etc., so I said "ok, fine, I didn't know that, nevermind then" and went back into my room to avoid him again.

He was obviously stewing about this for the next three hours because later he came into my room and yelled at me, called me patronising and waited for me to open my mouth and say "but - " or "well - " before he carried on. I'm ashamed to say that I was really, really frightened. He was extremely aggressive and the adrenalin going around my system was making my heart pound so hard that I'm sure he saw it. DP couldn't help me because he was at work, but he was furious.

Since then I've decided to move DP in and them out, so here comes my problem. DP and I have actually just been on holiday. I got back on Wednesday and I haven't been home yet because I'm dreading going back there so much! The thought of going today is making me so anxious my heart starts pounding when I think about it. I'm normally a very confident person who won't hesitate to call someone out on their crappy behaviour. What's happened to me?!

I'm so worried about the reaction I'm going to get. I know it's pretty silly but he was so aggressive and nasty before over just being told that he "left the hob on, so please can we be more careful". I was going to offer them until the end of July (I need the money) but I don't know if I can live with him this long, and I get so anxious every time I have to go home, even from work or a little outing. My parents say I can live at their house until then, which is so kind of them, but I feel it's like admitting defeat. I should be enjoying my first home and I can't (yet).

What's your contract/agreement with them? You can give them a months notice now, today. Or two weeks if nothing is officially signed.

We don't have an official contract, but I'd feel guilty giving them a month's notice, especially as Sweetie is great and I don't think she needs the stress (she has a demanding NHS job and works 24-hour shifts). I thought the end of July would be a good long time to find somewhere, and also hopefully lessen Spencer's fury (he loves the flat, but not my company).

At the end of the day, you can't carry on, being frightened in your own home.

Is there a time you can catch Sweetie, knowing that Spencer will be out? Also, if he gets threatening, tell him you will call the police and have him removed.

Peach you're too scared to go back to your own flat. Don't feel guilty - a month is plenty of time to find somewhere. I agree to speak to Sweetie if you feel bad but she must know that Spencer is a dick, unfortunately. She needs a LTB card

This sounds like such an awful situation for you. Clearly, 'Spenny' has problems with boundaries. How dare he just march into your room to have a go at you? It's almost as if you're renting a room in his house! I think this is why you're finding it so hard to deal with. He's behaving in a very disturbing way, and he's turned the tables so effectively that you must feel constantly on the back foot.

Is your dp going with you back to the house, today? I think you need some moral support. Can he move in straight away, or did you intend to wait until they had gone? Tell them "Dp will be moving in next week, and I'm giving you a month's (two month's?) notice, as we want the extra space" (No justification is needed, but I always have a tendency to try and minimise the fallout when things are awkward!)

You poor thing. You can't carry on living in fear of being in your own home.

It isn't your problem that Sweetie is living with a dickhead but if you give them notice she may know it is because of him and ask to stay in if he goes. What would you do then?

I would get your DP to go with you today and tell them both you are not prepared to be abused in your own home and threatened and they need to leave asap giving X as the latest they have to go. If you have no contract then you could say tomorrow.

If you're going to be in a business relationship with people, which is what being a landlady is, you can't flollop about being frightened, guilty and worried. He'd get fired from a job behaving like that so you're completely justified in evicting him.

I know you said you want us to be gentle but you need a kick up the bum, darling

Wow, thank you everyone for your replies and kindness, I was expecting more "woman up!" responses.

AuditAngel I've definitely toyed with catching Sweetie alone but I figured that anything I tell her (about feeling uncomfortable, etc.) would get back to him - not in a malicious way, because Sweetie isn't like that, but if she tried talking to him about it - and cause more issues.

kali I know - isn't it ridiculous? When I really think about it I get so angry, but I'm too scared to confront him about his behaviour.

Mrs that has been my thought process as well. He's made me feel like I'm the intruder and I'm unwelcome, when actually I'm his landlord and we're not on equal footing in that respect. Your suggestion is exactly what I'm going to say to them; I've spent the last month discussing this on-and-off with a very understanding work-friend who helped me to come up with what to say because I couldn't even contemplate the confrontation. Unfortunately DP has a final exam tomorrow so he can't be with me. I'm thinking of shortening it to 6 weeks, mid-July. I don't know if I can last until the end!

They have very little rights as lodgers. It's unacceptable for you to be abused in your own home. You've been too soft. If it kicks off call the police and have him chucked out. Then let Sweetie know that he's not coming back, but she can have 28 days notice on the proviso that she doesn't let him back in the house.
www.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-flatsharing/rights-for-renters-for-tenants-and-lodgers

I know 'cocklodger' usually means something else on this site, but he really is a cock of a lodger. I've heard of many nightmare flatmates but this is bad. I'm so sorry.

Don't feel like you're admitting defeat if you accept the offer to stay with your parents: be grateful for the break. I once stayed in a hotel for a week waiting for a total bitch to move out of our shared house.

I wondered if this would be helpful:

Rules for excluded tenancies or licences

You don’t have to go to court to evict your tenants if they have an excluded tenancy or licence (eg they live with you).

You only need to give them ‘reasonable notice’ to quit. Reasonable notice usually means the length of the rental payment period - so if your tenants pay rent weekly, you can give them 1 week’s notice. The notice doesn’t have to be in writing.

You can then change the locks on their rooms, even if they still have belongings there. However, you must give your tenants’ belongings back to them.

I think you should be prepared for him to kick off when you give them notice. You could ring 101 and tell them you are going to evict a violently abusive lodger maybe?

Itsfab I would ask her to stay if she wanted to, we have a great relationship and she's a lovely girl. I don't know why she stays with him because she certainly doesn't put up with his crap (hence occasional screaming arguments, because she won't back down) and I think he's a real discredit to her.

kali You're absolutely right, I was going to ask for a kick up the bum instead of hand-holding but I was feeling so downbeat I didn't know how well I'd take it! You've been very kind about it though and I do agree with you

Peeking and Bosi thank you very much for the legal advice/help and suggestions, it's good to know where I stand. They pay me monthly (should have been paid in yesterday but I haven't checked because my HSBC access key is at home). Ringing 101 in advance is a good idea, I think.

I'm getting rather teary now. Thank you all again for your kind words and support, it means a lot to me.

So he has verbally abused you in your own home & you have to give him notice??

Shame you didn't call the police & get rid of the git there & then.

He'll probably trash the place!

I hope you can sort this out but much as you shouldn't need too, make sure your DP is there when you tell him. He will probably kick off and get aggressive though may try the it won't happen again first to try and talk you round.

Hmm, OP, don't let the girlfriend stay so long as the dick of a boyfriend goes ... that just won't work. One out, both out. Otherwise, if she stayed, she might start sneaking him in and you're back to square one.

Another thing - a month's notice, no longer. Yup, it's tough but the dick's been treating you appallingly IN YOUR OWN HOME. Up with that you do not put. Both of them OUT. And move your DP in fast and don't be afraid to involve Police if the dick gets even nastier and threatening.

(In a very hard hearted mood this afternoon ... grrrrrr)

diddl I really hope not, but luckily I know who he works for and where (major international company who would definitely frown on any of that kind of behaviour)! Also as Peeking suggested I may ring 101 first, then there's a record of me speaking with them just in case.

Itsfab I'm starting to think it's necessary. Unfortunately it'll have to be Tuesday at the earliest because he can't tonight, and Sweetie has a 24 hour shift tomorrow-Tues. I hate Mondays stuck there alone with him!

oldgrandmama can you be with me when I tell them please or at least give me the secret of your fearlessness! And thank you - those are the things I think to myself, but I'm too worried about what a confrontation might bring to say them out loud. It's nice to know I ANBU.

her poor choice in men is not your problem. Do this:

www.lodgers.com/evicting-a-lodger.html

..before he burns the house down.

They both must leave and as soon as possible.

Use the police if necessary to remove him in particular.

Next time be far more careful in whom you rent out this room to!. You only wanted one person initially; stick to this next time around. You were too soft hearted and this guy knows it as well.

I do not really care that Sweetie is nice; she is with a dickhead of a man out of her own choosing. She probably on some level thinks that she deserves no-one better due to her own low self worth and/or thinks she can save him from his own self.

Can you have someone else there when you tell him?
Preferably your DH, but someone anyway?

Most bullies operate best on individuals.

And one wrong word,and call the police. I'm amazed you haven't already.

Agreed. As lovely as she is OP, they'll both have to be given notice. Anything else just won't work.

And definitely a call to 101 in advance.

Tell them both asap and get your DP round first. A call to 101 would also be advised given how threatening he has been. Tell them you are giving them notice and when and ask that they come asap if you call them.

Hopefully the fact that the twat has lost her her home will be enough to get her to ditch him.

special thanks for the advice, a notice in writing is a good idea.

Attila I know, I've been too naive. I know he sometimes feels bad for his behaviour because the day after he yelled at me, he cleaned the bathroom (it was sparkling!) and did all the hoovering without prompting. Usually I'm cleaning and they say "leave us the kitchen/the bathroom/etc and we'll do it", so the spontaneity of it was a nice surprise.

Marci I'm amazed it's taken me this long to realise he's a bully. I want to have DP there so it won't be possible to tell them for a few days (mentioned above).

Hex you're absolutely right. I think sometimes she does want to end it with him - he was away one weekend and she had 3 friends over in 24 hours! I didn't mind of course because she never has people over, so I was friendly but gave them their space, and walking from one room to another I overheard her telling one friend that she resented that she couldn't really do things without him and it was nice not to have him around. However going off what another poster said above (about her letting him in if she decides to take him back) has totally put me off the idea.

On another note, I have three sets of keys for the flat - I have one, my parents have one, and they have one. They had a set of keys cut so they could have one each. If they ask me for money for this when they move out, what are my obligations (as I'll have an extra free set, as I'm sure Spencer will point out)?

I'm toying with taking a chunk out of their deposit as Sweetie broke the waste disposal putting half a grapefruit down it(!) so it all had to come out £££; Spencer has damaged the paint job in the bathroom by putting his wet/damp shower products on a painted wooden section rather than on the bath rim and it's all chipped/ripped off where things stuck to it (and I don't know what paint it is so could be difficult to match); and Spencer broke a lamp that I loved

And get the locks changed once they're out. Spencer's sounds as if he isn't above wrecking the place or doing something awful.