Can I have some hand-holding, please (living with others issues - long)

[peachgirl]

This is my first time posting so please be gentle. I've tried to keep it as short as I can but it's still ended up this long...

I own my flat and rent the second bedroom to a couple. Initially I advertised for just one person, but I agreed to meet them and we got on very well. The girlfriend, from now on called Sweetie, is great. The problem is the boyfriend, from now on referred to as Spencer (like in Made In Chelsea, because he's exactly like him both in looks and personality!). I can't even pinpoint how, or when, it all started. They moved in during the second half of January. Gradually he became more and more hostile to the idea of me having DP, friends, and even family members over, which I mentioned happens twice a month when they moved in. It was so slow and subtle I barely realised until this incident in March - my real, 'DING DING DING something ain't right' moment.

Sweetie and Spencer came home one Sunday when I had DP and my brother over. I greeted them and introduced my brother, Sweetie said a cheery hello, and Spencer muttered, "oh, DP's here" - zero acknowledgement of my brother - and went into their room and slammed the door! He had previously seen me upset after a silly fight with DP (which was sorted out the next day), and told me to "get rid of this dude", and since then he's been hideous when DP is around, but not through any concern for me - it's because Spencer's irritated that I didn't take his advice.

Things really came to a head about a month ago.

Sweetie was away for the weekend and he'd had a terrible screaming argument down the phone at her on Saturday morning (which I could hear through the walls), so I'd avoided him all day. In the evening, when I thought he'd calmed down, I tried to bring up that he and/or Sweetie had left the gas hob on (and burning) and gone to work on Friday morning, and I'd only noticed because I went into the kitchen before work. He immediately got defensive and started yelling at me that I'd done it after dinner one time, and I was a hypocrite, etc., so I said "ok, fine, I didn't know that, nevermind then" and went back into my room to avoid him again.

He was obviously stewing about this for the next three hours because later he came into my room and yelled at me, called me patronising and waited for me to open my mouth and say "but - " or "well - " before he carried on. I'm ashamed to say that I was really, really frightened. He was extremely aggressive and the adrenalin going around my system was making my heart pound so hard that I'm sure he saw it. DP couldn't help me because he was at work, but he was furious.

Since then I've decided to move DP in and them out, so here comes my problem. DP and I have actually just been on holiday. I got back on Wednesday and I haven't been home yet because I'm dreading going back there so much! The thought of going today is making me so anxious my heart starts pounding when I think about it. I'm normally a very confident person who won't hesitate to call someone out on their crappy behaviour. What's happened to me?!

I'm so worried about the reaction I'm going to get. I know it's pretty silly but he was so aggressive and nasty before over just being told that he "left the hob on, so please can we be more careful". I was going to offer them until the end of July (I need the money) but I don't know if I can live with him this long, and I get so anxious every time I have to go home, even from work or a little outing. My parents say I can live at their house until then, which is so kind of them, but I feel it's like admitting defeat. I should be enjoying my first home and I can't (yet).

I second that.

I'd get the locks changed. Even people who seem reasonable turn nasty when they feel slighted. My DH had friends as lodgers and gave them notice when I officially moved in. These 'friends' cut a 4 inch hole in their bedroom carpet

Angel, you MUST NOT go and stay at your parents' place. Most especially once you've given them notice. They could wait while you're out and change the locks then claim to be tenants rather than lodgers and it would be a whole world of misery (and expense) to get them out.

Strictly speaking you are legally obliged to give them "reasonable" notice. Under certain circumstances you could ask them to leave immediately, like if there's been violence or intimidation which leaves you feeling unsafe in your own home. Two month's notice is far too much and opens up endless possibilities for Spencer to make your like uncomfortable.

I'd ensure your DP is there when you tell them, and give them a fortnight to make other arrangements, and have your DP staying there with you until they've gone.

Sounds like Spencer's almost certainly to kick up a stink and try to make things unpleasant for you. Poor Sweetie!

Veruca, Bosie and Joy I think the lock-changing is a good idea but I really have to look at the cost. I'm struggling financially as it is (usual story, don't go out much - the holiday I just had with DP was to my parents' place in France so we didn't pay except flights - budget food shopping etc., but can't save much) and I really don't know how affordable it is. It's certainly worth thinking about though.

Bitter you're right sigh I didn't even think of them trying to change the locks. I could ask DP to stay with me but the layout of the flat (it's like a corridor with all rooms off it, except living/dining at one end) means we'd all be in each other's pockets and I fear making the situation even more uncomfortable. I often have to take work home and plan from home (teacher) and I don't know how I'll cope if the atmosphere is even worse than it is now.

He only cleaned to keep you from kicking him out.

You can't carry on as you are and surely a few days of feeling uncomfortable is better than wondering what twatface will do next?

Oh for god's sake, change the sodding locks - beg or borrow the money to do this. Get DP to stay with you, never mind the crap about 'being in each other's pockets' - for f*'s sake, YOU HAVE TO GET THEM OUT, and all that stuff about corridors etc. being a bit crowded etc. is worth it. Get DP moved in, pronto. You fear 'making the situation more uncomfortable'? How sodding 'uncomfortable' is it already, with that horrible, bullying man in situ? Yup, atmosphere will be worse for a while (month's notice, not a minute more, and even less if you can get away with that legally) but then all done and dusted and they've gone. You'll cope ... otherwise, you're stuck with the buggers for bloody months. And DON'T MOVE OUT WHILE THEY'RE UNDER NOTICE! That is just one really reallys stupid idea. You'll end up with a sort of squatters' situation.

Next time -

Does Sweetie know her knobhead boyfriend threatened you?

This arrangement has broken down. I think it would be reasonable to give one or both of them a month's notice. I'd say any more threats from them and you will call the police. I don't think tenants who live with the landlord actually on the premises as a houseshare have very many rights.

Itsfab it was rather transparent but I did enjoy not having to do it myself that week. Unfortunately because of Sweetie (high-stress job and some long hours; Spencer has the same but IDC about him!!) I feel like a month is the shortest time I could reasonably give them.

I like your new nickname for him

I've decided to stay at my parents' tonight as I can't tell Spencer and Sweetie tonight anyway, and I can enjoy my last night of 'freedom' for a while... no judgement on my tv shows or what I'm eating for dinner - if it's not made with quinoa, spinach, sesame seeds, or hand-made pasta then Spencer sneers, so in other words he always sneers at what I make. As a result I (v. passive-aggressively) enjoy cooking with a lot of spices and making strong-smelling meals, or even shock-horror ordering a pizza now and again

You need to give them reasonable notice, but what is reasonable depends on a number of things including his threatening behaviour! You could ask them to leave straight away.

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/eviction_of_private_tenants/eviction_of_excluded_occupiers

And definitely, as soon as they are gone, get the locks changed.

It might be worth calling Shelter tomorrow OP for legal advice. Good luck :)

oldgrandmama Unfortunately it can and will get worse if I move DP in, there is absolutely no dispute to be had there. It will go from ok most of the time (just frustrating) to absolutely awful, slamming doors no contact and anxiety-induced constipation type atmosphere. I really would be afraid to go home if DP moved in right now.

Itsfab I'm not sure. I was going to talk to her about it and say how uncomfortable I felt about it, but I ended up not seeing her for a week and I thought 'surely she's had his version by now so she'll probably be a bit off with me/won't believe what I have to say' but she was lovely (as always) when I finally saw her. Unfortunately Spencer arrived home within about 3 minutes of me so I couldn't get her alone for long enough. This happened for the next few days so in the end I thought 'two weeks have gone and by now it's old news'. At that point I didn't want to go through it all again.

Viv I think so too. Time to put on my big girl trousers, I think. I thought that when I was telling them they have to leave, if he even shows the slightest hint of getting angry, I will mention that I'd have no problem ringing 101 and asking for assistance. (Erk... definitely need DP there for that!)

You can not not move your DP in because your lodger will throw a tantrum! You need your DP there and twatface will kick off once you give notice. You don't have any choice but to get DP in asap and then tell S & S it is time to go. If you don't do this you will be stuck with them for the foreseeable. Once you get DP in and give notice it is countdown to FREEDOM!!!

Peach girl, what are you saying?!
It will get worse if your DP moves in, so you daren't yet? I'm sorry but you're going to have to face him. Can't you get several friends round? I would come in for moral support, so would my DH.
Surely other people would too?

And he's making sure you don't have time with Sweetie to tell her what he did. That sticks out a mile.

I would make sure that your bf or a very good and preferably hulking male friend is around and staying while you tell them and while you get the locks changed.

Better safe than sorry.

And yes, its a pity about the girl but when you are afraid in your own home, that > everything. This is very not-right.

Wise to ring 102 just to let them know, yeah.

Actually I would let the damage go. Yes it'll be a financial loss but 1) its worth it to be rid of Spencer and 2) he might not take being kicked out well. Taking money from the deposit might enrage him more and 3) if you like Sweetie, just let it go. However annoyed you are, the thing here is your safety and feeling safe, not the money.

This is ridiculous.

He has no rights to live in your home. There's no cotract or agreement. He has threatened you and you no longer feel safe. Call the police and have him removed, immediately.

Christ-on-a-bike, you must be bloody TERRIFIED of that horrible man, if you can't even move YOUR DP INTO YOUR OWN FLAT? What the f* is going on there? If I were you, I'd phone 101 and tell them the situation and your worries if horrible man kicks off. And move your DP in, quick - I mean, you're worried about 'atmosphere' when you've got this nasty jerk ruling the roost, calling the shots and bullying and terrorising you? Honestly, get a grip.

You're missing a big point here. If your DP moves in and Knobhead kicks off then you don't need to give notice, tell them to pack their bags and you'll be calling the police if there's any more fuss. Why don't you ring Shelter or Citizens Advice tomorrow so that you can check the position? But if you read the links that have been posted this is pretty clear.
If you get any trouble from him at all just retreat to your room, ring the police on your mobile and tell them you're terrified that your lodger is going to hurt you. Then when he's out call an emergency locksmith.

DP moving in = hassle from Twatface?

So you don't move DP in so you aren't bullied by Twatface.

Read that and tell me what you are proposing is not ridiculous.

How's it going Op?

Peachy: these people are your LODGERS and you can give them a week's notice if you think that's long enough for them to make alternative arrangements.

Moving your b/f in and enduring a nasty atmosphere for a week in exchange for peace, quiet and security IN YOUR OWN HOME is a small price to pay. I'd pay it. Hell, I've been in a similar situation to the one you are in now and paid it myself.

Changing locks: changing the whole mechanism is not necessary. For most common types of lock you only need to change the barrel. Replacement barrels can be found at hardware stores for under a tenner and will take about fifteen or twenty minutes with a screwdriver.

Please let us know how you get on.