Have we reached an impasse?

[octopush1]

My partner of 16 years says-

I'm confrontational
I make us always negotiate day to day issues
I should accept his grumpy behaviour...it's only what I see, not what is
I've made parenting mistakes
Talking gets us nowhere, because I don't listen
He's worried about losing our family
He's worried about losing my support
He doesn't like sex with me
He wants to stay with me
He'll change if I commit to staying together
He doesn't need to change, the problems are mostly with me, I must change

I say-
He's unhappy and it effects us all
I need to know why he's unhappy
We must negotiate the big stuff we disagree on- marriage/children/finance
I don't want to negotiate the small stuff, you can decide without me
I do my best parenting we have different styles
I've done my best not to be critical of his parenting...
But now I don't let him get away with inconsistency and bullying
I want a good sex life
I've lost my appetite for sex with him after 10 years of trying to get him interested
I'm not convinced he can change
He has never said he wants ME above all else.

Mumsnetters...your thoughts appreciated! We are in counselling but it's come down to whether I decide to re-commit to the relationship or not. My partner has many fine attributes but empathy is not one. Our life is joyless. But am I throwing a good relationship away on just the everyday problems many of us have?

Nothing normal about what he says OP, sorry, but I don't see what you're leaving that's so great, he sounds nothing but hard work.

I agree, don't waste another 10 years.

Be happy :)

Your life is joyless!!!
That jumps out.
How can you be throwing away a 'good' relationship if you don't even enjoy your life?

His list of things of all putting you down or expecting you to step up.
A relationship is 2 sided.

From your post, I think he's a bully and you've realised this and you don't want to put up with it anymore.

He's sucking the life out of you and the fun out of all of your lives.
Why would you re-commit to this?

Re-read your post. I think you know what you have to do.

Very interesting guys, thanks-
"He's sucking the life out of you and the fun out of all of your lives."
Feels like a constant in my head at the moment. Can have lovely day with kids then home he comes and...squish, no more joy, just grumps.

The 'joyless' comment stood out for me too. I think a relationship can stand a lot of tests but, once you can't even share a smile, you're not even on the same footing as you would be with a random stranger.

Worse than 'joyless' however is 'bullying'. Don't waste so much as one second of your life with a bully in any context, ever. Certainly don't subject yourself to counselling with one. He'll treat it as carte blanche to tell you what a piece of shit you are...

Once again thanks for all your comments. Anyone out there think I'm making too big an issue of things? I do keep thinking that if only he'd talk about why he's unhappy we could work on it. But he just won't..or I suspect the deep problem is that he just doesn't want me but doesn't want to lose the security of me either. He's not nasty, he does minor controlling or bullying behaviour when he feels the situation is out of his control but it doesn't really bother me, other than frustrate me. Then again...10 years of poor, negative bedroom behaviour with no giving of pleasure to me, perhaps should be a sign that I've tried it all??

It really doesn't sound like any form of good relationship: a good relationship will never leave you 'joyless'. A bad one will, though.

It's extremely hard work to relate to anyone with low empathy. If they're grumpy and bullying with it, it's a recipe for misery and exhaustion. Would you actively choose to get together with your partner today, knowing what he is like?

There comes a point where, however baffling it may sound, you have to conclude that someone behaves the way they do because it suits them. If this unhappy/grumpy/crap at sex persona gets him attention or if it makes you try a little harder then maybe that's why he's the way he is? I get the impression that when you say 'not let him get away with inconsistency and bullying' that's a fairly recent development and, previously, he did get away with it (?)

He can't explain why he's unhappy because he never was unhappy. Flings the criticisms your way as a way of deflecting blame but essentially he's stuck in a behaviour pattern that used to come up with the goods and now isn't working so well.

Busted...

It doesn't sound like a good relationship to me!!

For me there are a number of deal breakers in there

1. you differ on parenting - I could not stay with a man that bullied my children
2. Sex - or lack of it. He doesn't like sex with you? That on it's own would end it for me
3. He's got the perma-grump. God I've tried living with someone who is permanently narky and it IS joyless

Sorry but to me it's been over for a while

How are you feeling though?

Once again, this conversation is really helping folk! Thanks! It all mirrors what I'm thinking but I just wasn't sure if I was making too big a deal of the whole thing.

The inconsistency and bullying I used to think it was because of something I was doing wrong. But the "misery and exhaustion" from dealing with this has meant I don't have the energy to pander to it anymore. Now I challenge him on it, though not aggressively, especially because the kids now get it a bit too. Though I'd like to stress he's a good Dad.

No...as I know him today, I would never had got together with him. At the time I was quite young (22), my mum had just died, I was in a new city, broken up with teenage-years boyfriend. We never lived together until I'd finished studying and we had kids and developed our careers all at the same time. Maybe that's enough to make anyone grumpy but I want/need a change.

Doesn't matter whose fault it is or whether you're making a big thing of it, your life is joyless. Time to change it.

BitofPractice- yes it's the bullying of kids bit that's the worst. He really does it only when he's very stressed (work or kids misbehaving). Nothing I don't think they can't cope with, but nothing that will endear him to them either. And the sex bit, it's awful. So depressing to think of all the joy and fun we've missed.

I hate the thought of breaking up family life...I'm conflicted as to whether it's better. For me I think it would be. For the family? I don't know. I'm seeing the counsellor alone tomorrow. I know she's probably not suppose to give an opinion but she's seen inside this relationship more than anyone else. I wish I could hear what she thinks.

A good Dad doesn't make the mother of his children feel misery and exhaustion. Sorry. What you're describing is a fairly classic dynamic where someone uses a feigned bad tempered, dissatisfied persona - which often only surfaces with the arrival of the first child - in order to manipulate the other partner into putting in just a little extra effort to keep them sweet. That you were vulnerable when you met is significant - maybe there's an element of obligation in the mix?

'How could I be a better wife?' is the effect they are going for. You'll have been occasionally rewarded with glimpses of the man you first met. Just enough to keep you on board rather than walking out of the door. Call it emotional abuse, psychological bullying, manipulation, controlling behaviour.... the net effect is always the same. A grinding down of energy, spirit, joy, confidence. When asked 'why are you unhappy?'.... they've got nothing except.... 'you make me unhappy'.

So make the man happy by drop kicking him through the front door and out of your life .... :) It's what he wants.

Goodness CogitoErgoSometimes it seems you've seen the inside of life up close :-) It's almost hilarious how accurate you are!! I guess a few people have been here before me eh!

More than a few :) I'm convinced there's a factory just outside Crewe stamping out Miserable Emotionally Abusive Bastards on a production line and sending them out to make kind women unhappy. I even made the mistake of marrying one myself once. (S'true!) In fact, there's a palm-shaped red mark on my forehead because of all the times I've slapped myself there down the years since thinking..... WHY did I waste my time on that MORON?!? WHY was I such a fucking MUG?!?!

(I have a feeling a similar one is forming on your forehead as I type... )

Isn't enlightening when you read that, far from it being you that's making him unhappy, and that you should be tying yourself in knots to change yourself to make him happy. He is in fact just a miserable twat who positvely enjoys being miserable and believies that he should spread that misery to his wife and kids so they can join him in his own slough of despondency.

When in fact, you are perfectly capable of being happy. All by yourself. Without him dragging you down.

Thanks all! Really appreciate the chat. Have come home to an idyllic house tonight, with happy ungrumbled at kids. But honestly we're at the brink. It's probably a bit too late to fix things by suddenly acting the domestic god, although I do appreciate the effort. I really think he'd be so much happier if we co-parent and admit we're not right together. He's been much happier since I moved into the spare room (and has said it's a relief). Thanks again!

I'm also in this situation, but without the spare room! Ihave got to the point where I am taking back control and giving my partner no illusion that things are OK any more. We live together as friends, enjoy the children (he's a great. Dad which makes things v tricky for me to justify a total split at the mo) and life carries on. At least I feel like I am no longer living a lie. He has emotional issues, and takes no responsibility for his behaviour or the impact of it on me. We did counselling, v expensive, and got me no where. She said he needed individual counselling for his temper and anger issues, but he didn't do it. I know it is over in my heart. But my son dotes on him. I guess I am just waiting for the stength or a sign to finalise things completely. I can't face making my children miserable at the moment.

i'd be super interested to see his i say you say list, that might reveal far more for us to consider.
yours is obviously slanted from your perspective, (not a criticism, thats natural)

Igetthefeckouttahere you're right. I tried write down impartially what he says but I would rather see his list, what he tells himself, what he really thinks, because I assume quite a bit of what he says is reactionary to me. I really wish he would just say what's on his mind. But...he never has and even now he won't open up.

Also I didn't think his 'list' was that bad, and I thought what I wrote down reflected badly on me rather than him e.g. I'm confrontational. People posting seem to have taken that as him putting me down. Funnily enough, although I don't think it's true, in my heart of heart I worry that it is and I'm totally in the wrong and I am confrontational and that my whole personality and way of behaving is what irks him so much. But the reaction to the post makes me think that I'm not so wrong after all...??

Millie04 totally feel for you. Moving out to the spare room was a real line in the sand. It really told him that I'm taking control, wanting to move on and I'm not waiting about for him anymore (that's after waiting 10 years for Newsnight/Match of the Day/random whatever's on the TV at 1am to finish)! Couldn't read Tim Dowling's Saturday Guardian article about how to stay married the other week. It was far too close to home.

If your willingness to confront, your whole personality and your way of behaving irks him then why does he want to be in a relationship with you? Equally, if he's grumpy, miserable and tends to bully the family etc, why do you want to be in a relationship with him?

When boy meets girl and their eyes meet across a crowded room, what they don't say to embark on a life of romance is.... 'I don't really like you very much & you irritate the hell out of me, but if you change lots of things about yourself and maybe go sleep in the spare room I think I might be able to tolerate it'

Why doesn't he like sex with you? That must be very hurtful to hear. I dont think you should stay with him either...

Goodness CogitoErgoSometimes it seems you've seen the inside of life up close

Cogito is one of the wisest women on here and always gives wonderful and insightful (and sometimes quite hard hitting) advice.

Re-read her posts when you need some reassurance that you are doing the right thing. She knows her stuff!

:-) CogitoErgoSometimes

If only he would say why or what he doesn't like in bed. I'm open to trying anything. I don't think he's a very sexual person, maybe unconfident. It doesn't really feel hurtful just a relief that it's not me. And I'm pretty sure I'm normal-ish! I did wonder if he was gay or having an affair but he says no.