should I tell my friend the awkward truth - or not?

[Chachah]

I have a close-ish friend who's a lovely person, very intelligent, interesting and just all-around nice.

One problem - she does not know how to have a conversation. Whenever I ask her questions about herself, her day or anything really, she goes off on really long monologues that end up being only very vaguely related to the original topic. It's near impossible to rebound and pick up the conversation mid-stream, because it's usually long convoluted stories that it would seem really rude to interrupt before she finishes. She does this a LOT, and on occasions I feel like checking my watch to see how long it's been since I've managed to put in a single word. I honestly don't know how she doesn't notice.

I put up with it because I otherwise really do like her, but wonder if I should tell her something. She could be such a great friend if she was just a little bit more aware of what she does and tried to reign it in. I know for a fact she'd be mortified to know she makes people (not just me) feel that way. I also know that she's been bullied at school and struggling socially in the past, and I think it could help her make friends more easily (which is something I know she really wants). But I also don't want to hurt her feelings, and I don't see a way to bring it up without making it sound like a harsh criticism.

WWYD?

Ii really can't see any way of broaching it that is not going to end terribly. With friendships you have to take or leave people as you find them. Unsolicited advice is never welcome and posting this put would be extremely hurtful.

It sound like she is shy or embarrassed in social situations. I think pointing this out will make her worse. I wouldn't mention it. Most people have a fault or two, but most faults are overlooked by friends and family.

Are you sure she's actually nice or is she just projecting an image of nice-ness?

I had a friend a bit like this for a while and eventually I noticed that while she was always cheerful, had interesting things to say, did interesting things etc. she never once asked about me, or allowed me to talk about something in detail. As soon as I stopped talking it was back to her.

She was pleasant enough company, but not a friend. I moved away and we didn't keep in touch.

I fell out with a friend over something unrelated and in all the accusations she accused me of only talking about myself.
I listened to myself after that and ended up withdrawing from conversations that had anything to do with my life, my experiences, my opinions, it was horrible.
We made friends months later and she admitted she had said it out of spite.
Ouch.
Not saying for one second that's what you're doing of course, different situation but it really hurt and affected my other friendships for a while, so whilst it's different, do be careful what you do say!

Could you try more to turn conversations round? Ask more direct questions? Start talking about yourself and your day? Involve more people in the chats?

She probably has ASD - like me. I struggle socially, these days I try and zip it for fear of saying the wrong thing.

Thanks for the responses.

Meglet I did wonder about ASD - it is very much like she's not picking up on what are (to me) very obvious social cues, and she always does worry about saying the wrong thing/offending people. (Which is why I said she'd be mortified to know I feel this way.) But if she does, it's undiagnosed and very mild.

Paq, yes I'm sure she's genuinely nice, she always does ask me about myself, she's the sort of person who'll remember when you mentioned a slight worry in passing and ask you weeks later if things are better now.

It sounds like the overwhelming advice is to work around it and accept her as she is - I can do that. It's frustrating because I know it's holding her back socially, but I don't want to hurt her or ruin our friendship.

Just saying that quite high level ASD can be present without diagnosis into adulthood. A person for example might just live their entire life finding social situations difficult, needing to do things at set times, becoming unsettled by change, blurting out the wrong things and depending on how it presents these characteristics can seem just like a part of their personality.

I know a man of 62 who did an online test for ASD and found he was probably moderately on the spectrum and he cried tears of joy for finally realising what it was that made him like he was. He always saw himself as just distant from others or "weird".

Years' ago I saw a film, forget the name but the main character addresses this same issue with his travelling companion.

He says something along the lines of, "Not everything is an anecdote, you have to discriminate. Things that are funny or interesting.... And when you tell stories, try and have a point, it makes it much more interesting!"

I don't know how on earth you introduce your friend to this way of thinking but how about if you cut across her? You are conscious this would be bad manners but desperate situations call for desperate measures. And if she raises this with you, you have a chance to say well funny you should mention this, because etc etc.

I should think after a long friendship the chances of this happening are nil but you are clearly bothered by this tic.

No don't say anything. She isn't being nasty, she is being socially clumsy and probably can't help it.

I had an old friend like that, and often would just launch in to a conversation without realizing I may not have the slightest inkling what she was on about or may have happened since I last saw her.

It is annoying but I miss those conversations with her

That film was Planes, Trains and Automobiles!

My exH did this. You'd start a conversation and his response would always, always be a monologue that when it FINALLY ended, didn't prompt or inspire any kind of reply from anyone, just tumbleweed. He killed nine out of ten conversations. Trying to talk to him reduced me to tears of frustration.

I have a couple of other friends who don't really make conversation as much as shout STATEMENTS and FACTS! at you at regular intervals, and they're hard work, too.

And I know one friend who is well known for just talking constantly and missing all those social cues that it's time to stop. In her case it's nerves. She can't handle silence in company and has to fill it, and then she gets a niggling worry that she's talking too much, and her coping mechanism is to talk even more. She did get "dumped" by a few friends for being too much of a blowhard and it really, really hurt her. It came as a total shock to her.

If your friend rambles in your company, then she likes your company, and she feels comfortable in it. She's turning things around from her days of social awkwardness, and she will find a balance. I know it's hard to put up with. I know. I really do. I find non-stop talkers exhausting and I have to dilute their company with long gaps or other people.

She does sound a kind and conscientious person, from the nice things you say about her. She may well know at the time that she's talking too much, and very, very likely goes home and thinks "Oh no, I went off on one again: I've got to stop doing that."

I fear I do this, it's driven by anxiety and I feel terrible when I get half way through a spiel and realise the anecdote I'm telling isn't interesting and shouldn't have been started! I used to be very shy and now I talk too much to people I feel safe with. Interesting to see if anyone has any reading recommendations that might help.

I think this is the sort of thing a parent or Grandparent could say to a child, but not friend to friend, unless she is really upsetting you. My mother did the monologue thing, and it annoyed and upset me in equal measure. In her case it was just very "me me me" , whereas your friend sounds lovely in all other ways. I do have one friend who waffles on at at a tangent a lot, but she, like your friend, is very caring of me, and kind, and lovely to my children, it doesn't bother me as it is just the way she chats.

Don't say anything. It will massively knock her already fragile social confidence.

I'm with Gen35. I do it too (less now than I used to). It's awful because I KNOW I'm doing it but I'm halfway through the story and I don't remember the point (there really was a point, it was totally related to the question I SWEAR!) and I end up trailing off.

It's gotten better over the years. No-one pointed it out to me, no-one needed to because I did know (trust me, she probably does as well).

I found that it happened with people I was nervous around, for whatever reason. I'd sometimes do it at job interviews (answer the question but go off tangent) but I got better at reining it in and turning the topic into a question or something. Sometimes I tell stories to make people laugh, or become closer with them, involve them in my life etc etc.

I sometimes see them giving me this look like I'm crazy and I try and make it seem like I'm less crazy, which usually backfires, and I walk away afterwards feeling totally awkward and ashamed and I still think about it later... how people must think I'm a total loser.

Please don't tell her. Just be her friend.

FWIW as well - I don't think she can't have a conversation, it's just not the way you wanted the conversation to go and it's not the same as what you're use to. It'll really help build your conversation skills to try and follow her train of thought!! :P

That was the title!

I'm afraid you are stuck OP. It is a shame if you suspect she drives others away but it is going to be hazardous to a good friendship to make this sort of criticism.

PS This may not be the type of self-help material anyone is after but there is a paperback series by Gillian Butler called "Overcoming Social Anxiety and Shyness" which has good reviews.

I'm like it. I can't help it really, so I've withdrawn from socialising and I pay for counselling, so I have someone to talk to once a week.
I think generally looking after one's self esteem and wellbeing does help.

Yes I do this too and it's embarrassing. I only really realise after the event and cringe. I tried to meet new people as I don't know anyone in my town and have no friends or family close by, but they generally don't seem keen to meet up again. I just stay at home with my toddler now

I've had CBT so have a better awareness but don't seem to be able to change my behaviour 'in the moment'. I will look up that book.

If a friend pointed this out to me I'd be mortified and wouldn't have the confidence to continue the friendship as I'd feel a burden on them.

Fly

Thanks everyone for the response, especially from those who identify with my friend. I hope I didn't make anyone feel bad, I may sometimes struggle in our conversations but at the end of the day she's a wonderful person and I'm lucky she wants to be friends with me.

It hadn't occurred to me that she may already be aware that she's doing it, if only after the fact, so that's really useful feedback.

YeGods it's a bit shit isn't it but I'm happy with the awareness I now have as it can only get better from here.

I must say I do miss the weekly ritual of the CBT, it was very helpful.

Chachah you sound like a great friend. I can understand why you find it difficult though.

Lol, my aunt does this. She calls, and says 'how are you?' If I say 'fine, how are you?' that's the next hour of my life spent with a phone glued to my ear listening to every detail of her life and her son's life, and her sons' friends' life. She'll talk me through recipes I have no interest in, tell me things she's told me in the last epic phonecall, etc. Once my cat walked in with a bloody ear from a fight. I told her this. She said 'Oh dear' and carried on telling me about her stair carpet. I had to hang up.

Her sons have ASD, and I'm certain they get it from her.

I don't think everyone realises that they are doing it - my friend doesn't. She often has strong views (politics, feminism) and would go on and on getting all wound up and criticising (fairly) politicians/chauvinists, so it's definitely not shyness and covering it up (we aer friends since school so she is comfortable with me) - I find it very tiring physically, so what I do is interrupt with eitger questions or objections or just say 'that's a never ending subject' and try to change it. OP, I dont think it's right to tip toe around it - by steering her you could actually gentl;y teach her how to be more accepted socially - you say she wants that, so surely you could help. Just dont sit and listen, interrupt (gently) and steer. Yes it does take effort, but she will then get used to the fact that 'monologues' ar wrong.

Otoh I do sometimes ramble with the new people who I feel very unconfident with (or look up to then for whatever reason), less so on one to one basis, small groups though aer an issue, especially if they know each other already. I understand that, and it's hard to change the anxiety, but it's different between close friends - so doesn't apply to your friend when she's with you. Strangers aer not going to help her, but you can.

Surely, if she is your friend then you can mention it. Maybe you could say it in a joke'y way. I know there are a million worse things to be than to be boring and I'd much rather a boring but nice friend than an interesting not nice one. However, it is rather selfish and self indulgent to go on and on and on.

I have a lovely but boring friend and I sometimes call her on it. I usually say something like 'Oi! Friend, I need you to listen to my story today' and if she carries on I will reinforce it with a few more 'no, you have to listen to me today' or something similar. All said nicely and with a wry smile.

I'm comfortable enough with her for it to be ok. We are really good friends. Her 'boringness' is only a problem in groups where I can see people looking pained. When it's just her and I it's ok.