What do you think is cheating when married?

[onezzz]

Apart from physical stuff

Kissing, getting too emotionally involved with another to the point where you are telling them thoughts that you would have told your Dh/dw previously.

Texting, emailing, facebooking without OH knowing

Anything you have to hide

Yes, anything you feel you should hide.

Anything you wouldn't be doing, saying or writing if your spouse was watching.

Anything you have to hide

This. Also, anything that would make you unhappy if the situation was reversed and it was your spouse off out doing it.

Putting yourself in situations where you are excited about seeing that person, dressing up, and putting yourself deliberately in harms way - gratuitously sharing taxis and confidences.

If you're asking whether something is "cheating" then it probably is.

Found this list from this study on what people consider cheating - I think some depend on situation but up to 11 definitely

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/22/what-is-cheating_n_2743853.html

1. Penile-vaginal intercourse
2. Oral sex
3. Taking a shower together
4. Kissing on the lips
5. E-mailing pictures of themselves naked
6. Texting erotic messages
7. Watching a pornographic movie together
8. Sleeping in the same bed
9. Holding hands

10. Staying in the same hotel room 11. Forming a deep emotional bond 12. Spending lots of time together 13. Sitting in lap 14. Accompanying to a formal event 15. Going out to dinner 16. Talking on the phone several times a week 17. Giving $500 to the other person 18. Kissing on the cheek 19. Sharing secrets 20. Supporting the other person financially 21. Hugging for more than 10 seconds 22. Calling when upset about their relationship partner 23. Taking a road trip out of the state 24. Telling dirty jokes 25. Calling when upset about work 26. Hugging briefly (less than 10 seconds) 27. Giving $5 to the other person

Becoming very emotionally attached to each other and then sleeping together.

Whatever the 'non-cheating' partner finds unacceptable intimacy. Anything deliberately hidden. Anything that would be too embarrassing or hurtful to do in front of your partner, children or parents.

surely if it's not having sex, as the OP asks, it depends on how the person they are involved with sees it, as well the married person.

I mean, if a married man is going out for coffee/social stuff not too often, and even gets involved in her life by advice/sharing/chat via phone or email in person, this is NOT cheating if the woman sees him purely as a friend! It's their mutual intent and attraction that counts. If attraction is even there but one-sided, it's not cheating - just friendship with an element of wishful thinking or fantasy on the part of one of them, but obviously if they can stay friends, the attraction is not even that strong and often subsides when not encouraged.

fwiw a married person can fancy anyone walking by fleetingly, but wouldn't act on it, and that isn't seen as cheating. So I can't see how it's different with a friend or colleague even if there are fleeting thoughts.

Adeptus, surely sleeping together without emotional attachment is cheating too!

beaglesaresweet Well yes I agree that too.

Cheating is breaking the rules, depends on what the rules of your relationship are.

Anything that involves your sexual and/or emotional energy being directed anywhere but within your relationship.

And yes, anything you would have to lie about because you know it is wrong.

And yes to me that sometimes includes some non sexual friendships. I have seen it on MN before now (in fact I think there is a current thread like this) where the DH puts his platonic friendship above his marriage, including lying about it.

Bogey - interesting (haven't seen that thread), do you mean the man spends more time with the friend than the wife? If so, I agree, but that's a very rare case. Or do you mean he's more interested in talking with the friend? But that's what friendships are - people who like talking to each other, who get on, but nothing physical- at least not mutually.

Lots of women have close female friends who they share/chat more with than with a partner, it definitely isn't cheating, it's just 'easy understanding'. Why can't it be the same for gender mixed friendships?

It just sounds like as a woman you can't even think of a friendship with a married man, even if you are not attracted whatsoever, because he'll be seen as cheating!

beagle I mean that they invest more emotionally in the friendship than the marriage. I have friendships that are what you describe, but they are not the primary relationship in my life iyswim. Whereas a friendship where the friends thoughts, views, wants, needs etc are always put ahead of the marriage/LTR. So by default it becomes the primary relationship in that persons life and the wife/husband and family come second.

I have some very close friends who are married men but if I was ever in a position where I had to choose (assuming no abusive issues) then I would choose my marriage. In the friendships I am talking about then there would be, at best, a real issue for the "cheater" on who to choose and at worst the friendship would be chosen above the marriage.

I hope that makes sense!

I feel the same about porn too. If a couples sex life comes (NPI) second to a porn habit then that is being unfaithful as it is directing sexual energy outside the relationship.

Occasional use to "scratch an itch" is one thing, but when it becomes the main source of sexual satisfaction then to me it is cheating. But I am prepared to be flamed for my views, they are borne, sadly, of experience.

Beagle I agree it seems easy for a friendship between a married man and female to be seen as inappropriate or cheating when it may just be a close friendship. I guess people have different ideas of what's ok and not but it's probably easy for what one person thinks is just a friendly relationship to be seen as more by someone else

yes, I agree with that, Bogey. I think it's quite unusal though that a friend is put first ALL the times or most of the time. Sometimes it's fine to put a friend first of course. I think this is far more common with male friends of husbands, especially if they are drinkers - lots of relationships where drinking with the guy/s in a pub comes before spending evfenings with wife. But unusual with a woman friend. Agree totally about porn use. I'm anti it anyway, if it dominates, forget it.
onezz - yes, that's the problem, that a wife often doesn't believe that the woman friend isn't attracted and has no agenda - sometimes laughably so! in my experience once, with a guy who was 20yrs older and not at all attractive visually (well not to me, but even objectively no oil painting) - but she was nearly asking him to end it! we only met once a month or two, and never even at my place - juts had interests in common and I did chat to him about my problems but I do that with any friends who I trust. But she believed I had a secret agenda I suppose just because he said he liked how I looked. So what - he can like the look of anyone in the street.

oh, and he had no history of physical cheating for the length of their marriage (20yrs +)!
I do understand that if a guy cheated before, than a wife is not inreasonable to be against such friendships with women, it then becomes her prerogative to allow it.

Apart from the obvious, secrecy is the nub. I don't care if dh has a good friendship with anyone, as long as I get to meet them and socialise with them too from time to time.