Why do some people seem to have the monopoly on having a hard time?

[StegasaurusRocks]

This seems to always happen in any group friendships that I've been in, in that one person takes the role of the needy friend, and as a result all of the sympathy and support from other members in the friendship group is effectively drained, and there is then no support for anyone else who may occasionally need it.

I am currently part of a group of 6 friends; we go out regularly for drinks and meals, and meet up during the day for lunches and for coffee. I like them all and feel that I am a good friend to each of them. However one group member, I'll call her Jane, is always very needy and moans a lot. She seems to always be having a hard time of one sort or another, and to be fair it is usually things that happen to most of us at some point or another, or just day to day things that she makes a bit of a drama out of. Nevertheless I am still supportive towards her. I should perhaps add too that maybe 50% of our meet up time is taken up by listening to her moaning.

At the weekend, I was added to a facebook group conversation by one of the group, saying that it would be nice to do a collection for Jane and get her some gift vouchers as she has had such a hard time lately. The others all agreed that absolutely they would chip in and yes, it would be lovely for poor Jane, so of course I agreed to donate too. However, on reflection, actually I have had a hard time in the past year too, and although all of the group know of what has happened to me, it actually dawned on me that I haven't had anywhere near the level of sympathy and support that this woman has had, and I'm sure that they don't refer to me as "Poor Stegasaurus", or even give my problems any thought once I've mentioned them.

In the past year I have:

Lost a much loved pet in horrible circumstances.
Lost a family member to cancer
Had to deal with a dengenerative illness in another family member
Had a lot of problems with my teenage DC
Ended up on antidepressants because of a bout of depression because of the above.

By comparison, I don't actually think that anything big has really happened to Jane in the past year or so. She moans regularly about lack of money, arguments with her DH, being tired etc, but there is no big issue as such, just lots of little moans.

I don't wish to be an emotional vampire to people, and I do make the effort to be upbeat and fun when we meet up, but a bit of acknowledgement would be nice about my struggle in the past year.

I guess I just feel that Jane gets all of the support and sympathy and therefore there is very little left for any other group members.

It also happens on an online group that I am on; one woman constantly posting about little moans, and it all revolves around her to the extent that there is no support left for anyone else. It doesn't bother me as much online though.

Has anyone got any thoughts on the above please? Is this just the way that group dynamics work?

stegasaurus - I tried to find my thread but think it might have been in Chat so disappeared. My Jane started realising she was losing some of us, and hence some of her support/audience/entourage. She started trying to arrange things 1 on 1 with each of us saying she needed to talk - she was trying this will several of us at the same time in a clear attempt to manipulate us - but I kept saying I was busy. She then sent me a card in the post (we only ever communicated via text or FB message before) saying "Dear Everton. I'm so sorry for everything. Jane x"

It read like a suicide note! But I by then knew she had done similar to one or two of the others in the group who she felt weren't giving her undivided attention - the first one started being friends with her again, the second realised she was trying to manipulate her so didn't. I decided to step away at this point as I was pretty certain she wasn't suicidal but just trying to get my attention back.

Basically as well as having all her problems (she did have a very tough year but she would wallow in everything and sometimes would react worse about a minor thing than about the major things going on), it became clear that she was a narcissist, a manipulator and an attention-seeker. So as she felt attention dropping away, she tried to pull it back to her with these dramatic cries for help on FB, or the weird sending cards/flowers thing she tried on 4 of us in the end (the 5th feels really left out that she didn't get anything :o).

I FB messaged her (this was how she generally communicated with me) and said "Thank you for the card but I don't know what it is you are apologising for as you haven't upset me. So I suggest we just forget about it. See you on Friday at X (our playgroup)". She replied with a bizarrely simple "Thank you Everton" and I then completely disengaged.

She stopped contacting me and eventually defriended me on Facebook when she realised I was no longer going to be part of her audience.

She did similar to one of the other girls a few months later - thought she was losing her to us, sent her flowers to thank her for a kindness performed about 8 months previously (no thank you forthcoming at the time!) and suggested a meet up, listing all the times she knew our friend was free (stalkerish!) She lost the most patient friend from that.

Some people are just very self-centred and strange. I have suffered a few friendships like this before but I think this was the maddest and the one I handled with the most grace (and cunning - there was nothing she could blame me for!). Disengaging gradually and then drawing a line under it is one of the most assertive things I have ever done with a friend.

That was long, sorry. Just revisited my Facebook messages to remind me and it was exactly a year ago yesterday that I sent that last FB message. A very free, happy, less miserable year for me!

Oh gosh Everton, she sounds a nightmare. You handled it brilliantly and have definitely done the right thing in disengaging with her! It sounds as though as soon as she realised she was losing her hold over everyone that she started to panic, and looked for various ways to bring attention onto herself.

Attention seekers always seem to get very huffy when they don't get the attention that they want.

Just been thinking whilst on school run;

I think in a way Jane employs similar tactics to a girl that I was at school with. This girl was always very attention seeking. When we were in year 8 I think, a boy in our year very tragically died. This girl had known him but not been friends with him or hung around with him, but when he died she just made such a fuss and kept crying and screeching and saying how much she missed him, that she ended up getting sympathy from everyone, more sympathy than the boy's friends got! Everyone tiptoed around her for years, and she'd start crying and wailing at the mention of his name.

A couple of years later when there was a rememberance ceremony for him, she was chosen to plant the special tree. Again because she'd made such a fuss.

Stegasaurus - you've clearly had experience of 'Jane' types before, which may be why this hurts so much.

The thing to remember is: the way people like Jane relate to the world is fundamentally manipulative, drama queeny, and - at base - rather undignified.

The feelings people have towards Janes are often closer to pity, rather than genuine sympathy, and there is a good deal of self-regard mixed up in them - I speak from experience as a friend of a massive Jane. I looked inside one day and I didn't much like what this relationship told me about myself, which was that it was easy for me to do a good turn to Jane and feel virtuous, but that feeling was bound up with a sense that I was making better choices than Jane - it made me feel good about my own life. By lavishing time and energy on her, I was avoiding engaging with people who had real problems, which were harder and more complicated to solve. (To think about it another way: what would happen if your Jane's life suddenly came up all sunshine-and-roses? I bet there would be a lot of jealously, and people would feel affronted that she had stepped out of her role!)

The thing is, you can't call Janes on their behaviour, because you play right into their narrative. You put them centre-stage as a victim, which is exactly the kind of drama they want. And boy, will they shout, scream, and cry given half a chance. It's much better to give them a wide berth and to try to develop other relationships that are outside of those dynamics, with people who actually expect friendship to be a two-way street of give and take. This might mean socializing with another group more often, and only seeing this group occasionally.

I just wonder if it would be a good idea if... just say you were all together and Jane was banging on again about how her DD stepped on the cat's tail and how fat she was, and how the boiler needs a service ... could you just actually shout "I have had the most awful shit time this last year, I'm still on AD's, could I PLEASE have a bit of sympathy, because I'm all out of sympathy for you Jane". Stunned silence follows. Jane stomps off (good). Everyone is very relieved that they can stop pandering to Jane.

On second thoughts, just ignore me, my advice is usually crap

She sounds like a bit of a nightmare but are you certain there's nothing more deeply tragic going on in her life you're not aware of?

If it were me I'd probably ask whoever is organising the gift vouchers (WTAF?!) if Jane secretly has a terminal disease and you've been out of the loop and didn't know? Well I wouldn't say that exactly but something with that vague import. It would be a handy double check that she is just simply a whiner and maybe bring the others to their senses?

isabella that's interesting. I knew a very complicated woman once. She used to take on 'needy' cases. She had one sort of friend who was like Jane with knobs on, always getting herself in scrapes, disastrous love life, money issues etc. My friend used to be round her house all the time sorting her out.

Then the 'Jane' got herself sorted slowly but surely and my complicated woman acquaintance admitted that she only liked 'Jane' when her life was shit because it made her feel a lot better helping 'Jane' and actually said it made her feel sort of superior, and she didn't like it when 'Jane' was happy. Work that one out

isabella I think you are right; I'm going to have to take a bit of a step back from this group and spend time with others a bit more, otherwise it'll just wind me up more and more.

Roussette Oh I would LOVE to do that I can just imagine Jane's poor little face crumpling!

deplorabelle that's a good point! In all honesty though, she is so into airing all her dirty laundry in public and telling everyone everything that I think she would relish talking about anything big over and over again. I will definitely ask the organiser of the collection though.

Do you actually like this group of friends? Because they sound very annoying and unfair to me.

I was in an antenatal group like this - all nicey nicey on the outside but some people were favoured more than others.

Tbh, in your shoes I would just be assuming they prefer Jane to me and don't care all that much about me..I'd ditch em all, but I'm pretty ruthless like that!

And I totally agree on the drama llama thing.

There was a Jane in my antenatal group who had a bad birth and used to go on and on as though she was the only person it ever happened to.

I had a terrible birth as well (but did't end up with a c-section like she did). I ended up with antenatal depression, counselling and an ELCS with my 2nd (my group didn't know most of this) but EVERY birth conversation was ALL about poor X and what a terrible time she had. She used to repeatedly post about it on facebook totting up the hours and minutes she spent in labour to garner sympathy years later. V strange.

we had a jane and I never said anything because of the rallying round however I stepped back my support of jane after a while and didnt offer up any "oh dears" as often. I then found myself changing the subject when jane moaned (subconsciously as im not a twat but my brain must have taken over as I was getting fed up). anyway jane seemed to notice and started talking to the other friends behind my back and trying to make me out to be a bad guy. thankfully my friends know me so well and spoke to me about what jane was saying. I finally had the guts to say to one friend actually jane gets on my fucking wick and nothing is ever enough and its all about her drama and quite frankly im fed up....said friend agreed. all friends spoke without jane and it transpired we all didnt really like her but all thought each other did amd because we all loved each other so much we just thought that it was worth not saying anything about how we felt about jane because we wanted to keep each other in our lives. (silly really isn't it) anyway one of the lovely ladies volunteered to gently approach jane and jane went all out psycho! started posting those annoying cryptic messages on facebook that you know are about you but cant prove it. she started trying to cause divides between the group in the end an awful allmighty row broke out and jane did succeed in splitting some of the members away but its been a year now and the few of us left in the smaller group of friends are so much closer anf happier and what happened was definately for the best. now we had all done the collection thing and the making her feel better thing too and it got thrown in our faces in the fall out. anyway what im trying to say is is there anyone else in the group you can trust to speak to? as you will probably find they feel the same! but are putting up with it thinking everyone else likes her. we are a funny lot us humans!

What about if you took Facebook out of the equation? Would it make the face to face meet ups easier?

I think Facebook can be blamed for a lot of problems, myself! :)

Isabella - your post of 16:06 is very true of my situation, really insightful. I hadn't thought about it in those terms but actually the helping Jane gave me a sense of superiority - my life isn't that bad, I'm not that emotional about little things so I'm a better person than her etc. It's not actually nice to be thinking that of people or comparing your coping mechanisms favourably with others. I feel free now, because I feel so much better about myself as a person now as well as because I don't have to listen to her continual whining. I didn't like the dishonest person I was around my Jane. My other friendships are more honest and what I get from them is being friends with an equal not being part of a weird never-ending pity-attention dynamic.

inforapenny The drama llama that you knew sounds similar to Jane! It's funny how they seem to have such a skill of playing on things that are just a normal life event, and how so many are taken in by them!

Jellymum, your Jane sounds like a nightmare! Yes there are probably one or two that I could try to speak to. I'm a bit wary though that they really like her and would then think that I was causing trouble and being a cow.

Branching out yes, I guess removing FB from the equation may help a little, however I'd say around 50% of meet up time is spent discussing her problems and listening to her, if not more.

Yes I was talking to someone like this today and whilst she was yacking on about her latest 'awful' drama all I could think was that all of it would be avoidable if she stopped constantly making piss poor choices in life, she has no foresight at all.
Is your friend like this?

If someone is genuinely having a bad time with circumstances beyond their control I think they deserve more support but some do have that 'woe is me' attitude. Ignore her, it's very tiresome.

What happens if you just keep turning the conversation?

Jane: 'Such an awful week, with a huge gas bill at the end of it.."
Everyone: 'Oh dear, poor you, what a shame'
Stega~:'That's a bummer Jane, but I am sure you'll be fine. How are you getting on with XYZ Interesting Issue Rosemary?'

I work with a Jane. It's exhausting. No-one dares to have any kind of a problem because no-one has suffered as she has. And she has the fragile, wan, tiny Brave Little Soldier persona down to a tee.

Fortunately there are a few of us in the rebel alliance now who are tired of being drained so we gather for moral support. And more of us are trying the breezy approach of ignore ignore ignore - refusing to ask the fatal questions "How are you?" and "Is everything OK?"

Wildbill, I agree; if someone has had a genuinely hard time through no fault of their own then I have every sympathy, but when it's through poor choices or they are just creating a drama then my sympathy runs out after a while.

BranchingOut I try to do that, however Jane seems to be able to turn anything round to being about her. For example if someone else says something about work she'll say "Oh it's so much easier for you to do X as a job" and then go on with a tale of woe.

LeBear I keep making a mental note not to ask Jane how she is anymore or anything that can open up the conversation into her moaning LOL

lol at the rebel alliance

would it work if you just said jokingly 'god you can really winge girl' laugh laugh etc, or 'oh dear what's wrong THIS time'
or 'oh no here we go again' or 'did you not get enough teat as an infant' etc

This behaviour can just be attention seeking.

LOL Wildbill much as I'd love to say things like that to her, I don't think that her or anyone else would take it as a joke and then I'd end up looking like a mean cow.

I'm in a group of 4-5 friends like you are.

and I have to say we've equally had our fair share of problems though I did go through a hellish time with bullying. The others also went through stuff though, moving, a serious operation and possible infertility, visa issues etc...

but the thing about us is we all share them equally. and if one time someone takes over then the other time the others share their problems. Its called give and take.

sometimes what I or my friends do, if we need or want a special chat or downtime with one person then we'll say that and meet up separately.

i think you personally should speak up more, when Jane starts on let her go on for say 20 minutes then take over. You could even say it in a jokey fashion oh Jane you're such a drama queen but let me tell everyone my drama now. she'll then shut up. or not.

I agree with Wild Bill and you should say it in a jokey manner.

Alternatively (probably not you OP) one of you could go for a coffee with Jane and broach this topic with her. maybe she really doesn't realise her manner and how it's alienating people. if she then ignores you, you have your answer.

I find that the best thing to do with people like this is be really proactive. Every time she opens her mouth, give some advice. No sympathy, just advice.

Before too long, she will basically start saying 'I don't want to be okay' (in different words).

If you do this, you will be helpful and nice (so nobody will wonder why you are picking on poor Jane), but you will be able to see from how the others react what they really think.