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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Why is it that as soon as you say something back to a bitchy person then YOU are the bad guy?

63 replies

MrsJaffaCakes · 13/05/2014 10:53

This has happened to me a couple of times in the past and has just happened again, and I find it infuriating!

I am friends with a group of mums from my DCs school. One in particular I have spent a lot of time with as our DDs are best friends. Said 'friend' considers herself very attractive and likes attention, and basically has insinuated loads of times that I am ugly. I think she's kind of set things up so that she is the gorgeous, good looking one and I'm her ugly sidekick.

She has made many barbed comments over the past few years. Sometimes little snippy remarks and at other times little digs that are veiled as a compliment.

I have got fed up with these comments but it all came to a head at the weekend when a group of us were out in a restaurant. Another friend said to me that she always thinks that I look like a certain tv personality. Nasty friend then piped up very sarcastically "Well I bet that that celebrity would be really flattered", and pulled a face. I said to her that what she had just said was hurtful and rude, and that I had had enough of her nasty little comments. Cue her bursting into tears and saying that she doesn't mean any harm and that she just "says things how they are".

All of our mutual friends were then fussing around her, and I ended up getting the cold shoulder a little for the rest of the evening. Two friends have contacted me since the incident and told me about how upset she is, and how she didn't mean any harm. Basically defending her and thinking that I am in the wrong.

I feel like ditching the whole lot of them!

OP posts:
hellsbellsmelons · 13/05/2014 11:49

says things how they are
Bullshit!
This means that she can say nasty things and get away with it without any thought or consideration of the hurt she might be inflicting.

4seasons learn from this.
Next time she makes a comment - burst into tears. Tell everyone who will listen that you can't take any more of her nasty snidey comments.
She's knocked you down for so long that your confidence is at rock bottom and it's actually exacerbating the weight situation. And if she could just leave you alone about it then you might get your confidence back and lose the weight.

Not that you need or want to by the way. Just make her think about what she says and the impact it might be having.
Your time is now!

4seasons · 13/05/2014 11:51

Oh yes !!!HeeHiles....that is such a good idea! Am now sitting thinking up things I can say in an innocent tone full of concern . So much more satisfying than a row ....

educationforlife · 13/05/2014 11:52

No, it is not about women or about crying.
If the OP had burst out crying, the others would still have rallied round the manipulator.
Some people (men and women) seem to be able to get away with this. My own theory is that they are so up their own arses that other members of the group instinctively know there would be hell to pay if they were called on their behaviour, so, consciously or unconsciously, they do all they can not to upset the status quo or cause the manipulator (and, therefore, themselves) any hassle.
If other people have to pay the price, so be it.
Not only are there precious few 'heroes any more', few people will even bother to stand up for what is right because it might upset their own social standing a 'nice night out' - crime of the century, that Confused

SuperFlyHigh · 13/05/2014 11:58

this woman is exactly like education says - a manipulator. I haven't actually had friends like this who burst into tears when they're called out on their bitchiness and hurtful comments.

I personally think the longer this sort of person is allowed to manipulate and make nasty comments then the more they see this as acceptable behaviour and so does everyone around them. They just think that X friend is like that so…

I've made these comments in the past sometimes (not that extreme) but had to be called out on it being bitchy (just by one friend) - I hadn't realised I was being bitchy but obviously I was and this friend may not have trusted me anymore.

No idea for you personally how to handle this though as the one who burst into tears is bound to feel as though you "couldn't take a joke" etc and it could take a while for her to change her behaviour/comments. Maybe the other friends could help her though.

Sunnyfeet · 13/05/2014 11:59

Few people bother to stand up for what is right, because it may upset their own social standing

Sad but true. Much easier to go with the pack mentality.

SuperFlyHigh · 13/05/2014 12:01

Yes, so true Sunny.

I get the feeling that the office bully who I work with gets away with this a lot in her work/personal life (more so at work) - she even has a sign that says The One Who Is Always Right on her office wall… and she likes to be known as BEING RIGHT!

then again this is the woman who has left period blood (a lot of it) on our toilet seat - I've posted about this before. and time after time after time. I can't believe anyone is so blind/stupid/inconsiderate that she doesn't notice THAT!

tiawalters · 13/05/2014 12:03

OP, you'll be surprised at how many threads you'll find here about mums' groups behaving like in the playground. Your OP is just another example of this very sad situation.

I think in group dynamics it doesn't matter how nasty you are to people. As long as you have psychological power over them, you can say and do whatever. It's all a power game, and unless you're good at it, it's best to keep well away from them.

Personally, I'm rubbish at being the Queen Bee or the one with a power hold over others, so I'm always at risk of being dumped by groups. I'm an open, honest, generally good friend, and I've been in situations where I seem to be the one being dumped with no second thought, many times the result of gossip or the behaviours of people who are more adept at the power game or Queen bees.

It took me a long time to fully understand that. I avoid friendships with groups of women now because I know that sooner or later there will be a situation like the one above, and I'm not interested any more in those kind of relationships.

I have a few friends here and there but try to keep them one to ones. There's only on triangle in my group of friends, and I don't feel fully at ease with that either. I know that things being said are passed back and forth, and I don't feel comfortable with that.

It's one side of female friendship that I really find hard to come to terms with.

It's your choice, obviously, but I'll try to stay away from this lot and look for genuine friends somewhere else.

KERALA1 · 13/05/2014 12:07

As we used to say at school "don't dish it out if you can't take it"...

Sunnyfeet · 13/05/2014 12:07

It's taken me my full 40 years to realise you'll never win against a manipulator if she's already got the 'power' in the group. Best to leave them to it, and find your friendships elsewhere. Constantly trying to fit into a group where there's a hostile Queen Bee trying to trip you up, is pointless and soul destroying.

Viviennemary · 13/05/2014 12:07

They sound a silly immature bunch. Make some new friends. I just couldn't be bothered with people like this. You did right to speak out. And I expect some people in the group thought so too. Only they were probably a load of sheep and kept quiet.

itiswhatitiswhatitis · 13/05/2014 12:21

Others are right you won't win. The only way I eventually 'won' in this situation was by removing myself from the group. Eventually someone else became the target and they left and then slowly very slowly people saw who this person really was and she ended up fairly friendless. But it wasn't a fast process took about 6/7 years.

ROUNDandROUNDINCIRCILESMORETHA · 13/05/2014 17:28

Blimey. I'd stay clear of them sometimes its best to have a night in front of tv and popcorn on your own then deal with bitchy comments &drama queens.

brokenhearted55a · 13/05/2014 17:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

struggling100 · 13/05/2014 17:39

I think people sometimes get very threatened when someone steps out of role. You've been taking the barbs for ages, and suddenly the worm turned and you bit back.

I think if you stay strong now, you'll learn something really good about yourself, which is that you CAN set boundaries and you don't have to put up with being treated like shit. If people tell you that this horrid woman is 'upset', cut it off with 'How do you think I feel, having put up with being called 'ugly' for so many years?' and refuse to engage ANY further.

Sunnyfeet · 13/05/2014 18:55

If you're going to stand up to a Queen Bee, it's best in a 1-2-1 situation, otherwise she'll just draw support from the sheep around her. Mind you, a Queen Bee is only usually brave enough to 'have a go' when she's got her supporters about ......

MeMyselfAnd1 · 13/05/2014 19:11

We have our own personal bitch in the office. Bossy, selfish, self entitled and with a very posh voice to match.

I really had a bad time with her until I stopped caring that she or the rest of the team liked me (yep! Everybody used to turn to help her if I dared to contradict her or stand my ground). But as somebody else said above, stay and enjoy the fun. You need to be quick tongued, be able to laugh at her remarks, and don't care about what the rest of the group thinks, and eventually... Even the bitch will feel respect for you.

Sunnyfeet · 13/05/2014 19:15

I've found that in office situations, the queen bee's supporters daren't appear friendly towards you when she's around, but are quite pally when she's out of ear shot. Infuriating.

MexicanSpringtime · 13/05/2014 19:50

She "just says things how they are" but when you "just says things how they are" she bursts into tears?

I haven't had anyone burst into tears like that on me, but I have found that the most forthright people are always the ones who can't cope with other people being forthright to them.

SuffolkNWhat · 13/05/2014 19:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 13/05/2014 20:22

MrsJaffaCakes, thank you for posting. Sorry you have had to endure the put downs. I hope you can easily disconnect without their trying to suck manipulate you back in with a great show of the fake nice-nice.

tiawalters, your post and analysis means a lot to me. It can be a choice to steer clear of (some) social situations and not lable myself as being inhibited by social anxiety. I have made choices to decline some invitations (not that I get that many) because of anxiety; but that feeling of stress has been well founded in the dynamics of the group. I had never really been able to put it into words before, but could certainly feel it, even if subconsciously. Thanks for the validation. Smile

SuperFlyHigh · 13/05/2014 20:34

MeMyself - I had the same as you re the personal bitch at my office who also bullied me. if anyone wants to be up on things have a nicer life/house etc it's her or her relatives and really she's bitter.

After sorting the bullying out I stopped caring (I didn't care before) what she thought of me.

Guess who now comes downstairs to chat and make idle chat about her rubbish achievements?! yes, bitch. I just smile sweetly and pretend to be interested.

Sunnyfeet · 13/05/2014 22:07

superfly how did you sort out the bullying?

MeMyselfAnd1 · 14/05/2014 06:48

Yes Superfly, the bitch and I are in good terms now, but I don't waste opportunity to dig on her remarks: complaining about older people dealing with stress? I point out that when she is older she will understand that after you have enough work experience (bitch is very young) you don't react to issues in the same way as a newly graduate. She goes on and on after how much she cares about fashion and clothes and I point out that we all do, but life is not the same since we have children and mortgages that are more important than career looks. But the best one was when she said that she was aware that a newly hired colleague found her scary, aggressive and didn't like the way she work. My answer? Oh darling! But we all do! (That was the turning point)

sunshinemmum · 14/05/2014 08:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ToriaPumpkin · 14/05/2014 08:38

I've just ditched someone I've known for 10 years as I was finally sick of her self centred, bitchy, snidey, back stabbing bullshit.

The really stupid thing? We have lots of mutual friends who all agree that she isn't a very nice person but who refuse to call her on it. Every time I've told her to back off or told her she's behaving badly she's burst into tears, told me I'm horrible to her and ended up with people crowded round her trying to calm her down.

Fuck that for a game of skittles! I suspect quite a few of the mutual friends will go too but their behaviour isn't really much better I suppose.