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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Suffocatingly "helpful" mother...

56 replies

Lostfraggle · 11/05/2014 15:22

Any advice on how to cope with my mother? I am in my mid 30s, married, 2 DC. Am finding my mother increasingly difficult to deal with, whilst feeling constant guilt that I should just be grateful as she is (a) trying to be helpful and (b) not as bad as some of the mothers / MILs I read about on the Relationships board and (c) all the things she does are in themselves really minor. But she has a stealth campaign of being incredibly "helpful". Some examples:

If you tell her you have any kind of plan (holiday, buy a new car, buy a new appliance) she will immediately start with questions like: isn't that going to be expensive, have you thought whether the weather there is any good at that time of year, will the youngest DC need a passport yet, do John Lewis even sell X item etc etc etc. My sister and I have just stopped telling her anything at all about our future plans, until it's a fait accompli. For example, my sister has decided to move house to a completely new town, and only told my mother when the new (rented) house was completely arranged. And my mother started with the "so it's unfurnished - are you going to need a new bed / sofa / table and chairs?". I feel like it's such a shame I can't share these things with her and get her support, because she just gets too overwhelming.

On even tiny things, she is just suffocatingly helpful. DH was struggling to put on his shoes this week, whilst holding something large, and as he was putting the large thing down she immediately leapt up and started fussing over his shoes, opening them wider so he wouldn't have to put the thing down. This sort of thing happens all the time when she is with us. If I am cooking, she starts fussing around me trying to tidy up, even when I ask her not to, and won't just sit down and relax. At a birthday party of one of the DC, without being asked, she started writing a list of who gave which present as the birthday child was opening the presents, which felt like an implicit criticism of me for not doing that. Fruit in the fruit bowl which is starting to go off is even known as "[Mum-nickname] fruit" in our extended family because she will specially choose that fruit to eat up, in order to be helpful.

She looks after the DC regularly (for which I am very grateful) and frequently decides to do some cleaning job, like cleaning the top of the oven extractor fan, or inside the cupboards, or the skirting, without being asked. Which winds me up no end, and makes me feel that she is criticising my housekeeping.

All these things sound by themselves very petty, but when she's with us, it feels pretty much like constant interfering and meddling. My dad had an affair when I was around 19, and they are now divorced (he married the OW) and she lives on her own - maybe she is doing this in order to feel wanted? (I think she still hasn't come to terms with him leaving). I have tried to ask her kindly not to do whatever the irritating thing is, but last time I did (yesterday), she literally huffed, stood up and stormed out of the room like a teenager saying very stroppily "can't a person even try to be a little bit helpful, I suppose if it's not even wanted..." in front of a bunch of other people!

How do I cope with all this? Has anyone else managed to communicate their frustration to their mother without her being massively offended? Are there any good books I could read? I am starting to feel on edge when she's with us and really need to find a way to change the way I deal with her, and with my own reaction to her behaviour.

OP posts:
BrunoBrookesDinedAlone · 11/05/2014 22:35

I think maybe a small part of the problem is that by the sound of it, with no partner for a long time, she has also lost the habit of relating to people in the immediate family to whom she doesn't see herself in a motherly role towards. You, your DH, your children - all younger than her, the generations below. She's not had experience of the more equal relationship with a partner for a long time.

I feel sorry for her... but fully sympathise and wouldn't be able to not get immensely irritated!!

Dozer · 12/05/2014 06:31

I have two parents like this! Lots and lots of unsolicited advice, often "you should" or "you need to", against things I mention am thinking of doing. Persistently brought up. They don't stop if politely asked (I use broken record technique, eg "please respect our decision"), if I or my siblings get cross they act hurt and "unappreciated".

Trying to discipline the DC and impose their rules (when I'm there), "helping" by doing things unasked or even when asked not to, like washing or ironing.

Also a lot of criticism dressed up as concern.

I recognise the parent to child instead of adult to adult dynamic, they actively try to parent their adult DC, and indeed grandchildren!

Causes problems in my relationship with DH, who understandably gets annoyed and wants me to be tougher with them.

They live quite far away but stay fairly often. Another factor is that DM has had a serious, extre

Dozer · 12/05/2014 06:33

Extremely painful, degenerative physical health condition for 20 years (they are younger than your mum OP), and a heart condition so there is guilt involved in upsetting her.

FatherJake · 12/05/2014 08:39

Sounds very very familiar. I'm not sure it has anything to do with loneliness etc. For my parents (still together and with active social lives)the giving of advice is compulsive and they literally cannot stop themselves, even with their friends or neighbours let alone family. Where to go on holiday, choice of career, choice of plants for the garden, how to get from A to B etc etc. It's all meant very nicely but if the advice is ignored or rejected they will sigh, shake their heads and be slightly put out. Does impact on choice of friends as they seem to be drawn to slightly needy types who appreciate advice..

I view it as an eccentricity of ageing that isn't going to get any better so either channel it positively or present things as faits-accomplis.

Atbeckandcall · 12/05/2014 09:09

I did try and it turned into an almighty row (well she went ballistic and I listened, tried to talk about each point she was raising but she just shouted at me). Unfortunately my dm is also a control freak and narcissist.

Shituation management is key really.

Her mother is the same btw. Mum always says that I'm not like them and more level headed. It's frustrating because even though she knows she's doing it (she has admitted it to me) she won't actually try to stop. All I ever hear her say is "well that's just how I feel at that moment in time". Sad

Dozer · 12/05/2014 09:39

Grin "shituation management"!

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 12/05/2014 09:39

Reading this in fascination.

My in laws are rather like this.

I've got better at dealing with it over the years but it has been confusingly hard (as how can I object when they are sooooo lovely and helpful) at times.

My parents also have their moments of being a bit like this but only over a very small number of things - in particular holidays! ("Have you two booked a holiday yet? You must make sure you get a holiday. You work so hard, you need a holiday. How about blah - that looks lovely. Oh - I'm not sure about blah in June - won't the sea be cold? Oh - it's ok - I've spent hours researching and the sea will be ok in June.)

Dozer · 12/05/2014 09:42

Yy fatherjake, mine do that to friends/family too, they often mention "I told so and so that she should/shouldn't", has negative impact on their relationships in general IMO, people get pissed off!

It's all pretty disrespectful behaviour, "we know best".

ellawithaspecialnose · 12/05/2014 10:01

Gosh, my DM is like this in many ways, OP. It feels as though her whole life is geared towards thinking about me and the DC sometimes, and that she's living vicariously through us. (I'm an only child; she's divorced and has no friends, so it's like her entire focus is on us.) It's not quite as though she gives unwanted advice - she never says 'you should do this/that' - it's rather that she spends an inordinate amount of time trying to come up with solutions to problems that really aren't that problematic.

She'll do things like: if I come through the door with a couple of heavy shopping bags on each hand, she'll rush forward to take one from me, when in actual fact it's easier for me just to continue walking towards the kitchen and put them all down, rather than suddenly be stopped in my tracks and be put off-balance. It's TOO helpful.

If I mention a slight problem with one of the DC; say, for example, 8yo DS falling out with a friend at school, she'll disappear for a couple of days then come back to me with a SWATHE of solutions, second-guessing about the other child/his/her parents(!), firefighting techniques ... by which time the original problem has frequently solved itself! I do understand that I'm lucky she takes such an interest and is so concerned about the happiness of all of us but ... suffocating is exactly the word. I wish she'd go and do something for herself that she could come back and tell us about. But she never does anything. At the moment, she's sadly extremely depressed and anxious and hasn't spoken to me for 6 months - will only communicate with me by text, everything has gone majorly tits-up and I don't know how it's going to end. It's like she's put me on a pedestal for so many years and suddenly she's devastated by a tiny criticism I made of her. Have posted elsewhere about her Sad

sonjadog · 12/05/2014 10:59

The throwing me off balance thing drives me insane. I will be going down stairs with a pile of stuff, carefully balanced and under control and she'll rush over, hoik up one side, ruin the balance and make me nearly drop everything.

This also happens when I am trying to hammer or screw anything together. I will be about to start, then she'll rush up to hold it in place, and make it move from where I have it centred.

ellawithaspecialnose · 12/05/2014 11:23

Oh sonja, when I reread my post above I thought 'I sound really petty about the shopping bags' ...but it seems I'm not alone Sad (not saying you're petty, just glad there's someone else who feels the same way!!)

Dozer · 12/05/2014 12:53

Sorry about your current difficulties with your mum not speaking, ellawithaspecialnose.

ProfYaffle · 12/05/2014 13:29

I recognise the 'off balance' thing too. When we're walking down the street, my Mum will always try and do the 'after you' thing if the path narrows or there's an obstacle which is fine except it's often easier if I move back, but then she moves back too and we somehow end up wedged together in the narrow gap Confused I'm not even sure how to explain it!

When the dc were babies it was particularly bad, I remember trying to leave the house with a pram through our narrow hallway and Mum leaping ahead of me to hold the door open, except there wasn't then room for me to get past her with the pram so she ended up in the garden while I wrestled with the door anyway.

It's all very exhausting.

ellawithaspecialnose · 12/05/2014 13:51

Thanks Dozer, thank you. It'll be months and months more before she is up to talking or meeting, I know. I've offered to send DP with the kids to see her if she doesn't want to see me, but she's so far refused. I'm in one big baffled bewildered limbo about it all and really don't know what to do next. Sorry for hijacking.

ProfYaffle, I recognise that too. On the infrequent occasions when we ever did walk anywhere together (usually her preferred method of being around us is to come to our house to look after the DC while I go out Sad) she would walk infuriatingly just a step and a half or something behind me, so I would have to turn round if I wanted to speak ... it's the anxious subservience I can't handle. And I know everything is far far worse for her, having to live with the mind she has, and I'm lucky to have good mental health (to quote Frasier!) but I can't help if it drives me nuts sometimes. Sad

rumbleinthrjungle · 12/05/2014 14:31

My lovely DM is another one from this club and also a retired teacher, and the survivor of a really horrible co dependent marriage. There are times when I really want to whack her over the head with a copy of 'Patient Griselda'.

Food is her biggest trigger. I took her on a day trip once to somewhere she'd wanted to go for years, and my DS and partner said they'd meet up with us that evening in the town and we'd have a meal together. She came totally apart, the entire day ended up being about Meeting Them, she had to bring a lot of sandwiches in case they got hungry travelling and hadn't had time to get anything to eat (the fact we were going to eat in a restaurant as soon as we met up was irrelevant, sandwiches ended in the bin), and wanted to find a bench by the meet up point about 11am and sit there and Wait so we didn't miss them when they arrived at 5pm. We couldn't go out of sight of the bench, or shop, or eat lunch, or do any of the things we'd come to do because we had to be ready to meet them. It's anxiety with her, it just gets completely out of control, particularly if she's in a situation out of her usual routine.

I often find as well she panics and makes Her Plan of how things will be, how she is going to handle this situation, and she can't deviate from it an inch or be flexible about things without getting too anxious to cope, even if that plan isn't logical or things could be done much more easily by someone else. And yy to the every time you share a plan listing every possible pitfall and telling you how to do it. When I told her I was getting a dog she actually tried to tell me no. I usually work around it but that time I did actually laugh and say er, not your decision? It isn't conscious. It absolutely isn't intentional or coming from any negative desire. I love her to bits and I definitely have my quirks too which I'm sure get on her nerves just as much, but I get how infuriating it can be. What really makes me laugh is that I remember her twenty years ago complaining to me about her mother doing exactly this to her!

Giving her things to do helps a lot. A large number of grandchildren or a demanding dog that needs things doing for it also helps a lot, my sister and I have that one well covered. We've plotted Christmas day for years to keep her parked in someone else's house with a glass of wine in hand as if she manages to get control of the kitchen there will be a total nightmare. In worse case situations a thick skin, a deep breath and a lot of wine also helps.

ellawithaspecialnose · 12/05/2014 14:39

Rumble you had to stay within sight of a bench for SIX HOURS?? Sad Has she sought help/counselling for her anxiety?

Lostfraggle · 12/05/2014 14:48

Really interesting to hear from everyone posting - thank you.

Sorry that your relationship with your mum has deteriorated to text-only context, ella. Sad. It must be really upsetting for you if it was over an apparently small thing. My mum would definitely do the shopping bags thing. Recently we were eating dinner together at my house, and I went to get the water jug to refill my glass (which was within my reach), and she immediately went to get it too, in order to pass it to me, which resulted in the jug tipping over because we were both trying to get it. Sounds so petty, but when that sort of thing happens the whole time, it's just so exhausting.

She isn't a retired teacher btw. Also interesting to note that some mothers / MILs seem to be doing this because they are lonely, and some even if they appear to have otherwise busy lives (although I think my mum is maybe still lonely, underneath all the busyness).

She is also quite an anxious person, which seems to be a similar trait to some others mentioned here. And a massive over-planner - she had her 70th birthday in a restaurant and my goodness, the amount of planning (and associated worrying) she did beforehand - whether they had enough high chairs (something I never check when eating out with my DC), where people would hang their coats (of course there will be somewhere), whether they'd be able to do variations on the menu if people wanted that (it's a restaurant! They cater for dietary needs!), where the toilets were in relation to the private dining area etc etc, with two recees to the restaurant itself to double-check all this.

rumble - she would definitely have been in a spin about making sure she met your DS and partner at the right time in that situation. Although I think she would definitely have gone out of sight of the bench - that does seem very extreme. She just would have spent all day checking her watch, and talking about whether there was enough time to get back to the bench from whereever you were, and getting back to the bench massively early, just so as not to miss the people she was meeting.

I have been mulling over what I can give her to do, to divert the energy in a positive way - although then I have the guilt that she is already doing regular childcare for us and so of course I can't impose on her any more...

OP posts:
ellawithaspecialnose · 12/05/2014 15:07

Thanks, Lostfraggle. And sympathies too. My DM used to do free childcare for us too. Children are the only people she's not terrified of. I think her case is more one for the Mental Health board really Sad I have posted about her on there before but think I must have NCed as I can't find the posts under this name! Sigh.

outtheothersidefinally · 12/05/2014 15:13

You don't need to do anything about her, shift the focus to you, your life, your feelings (never belittle them!)...

Read the Codependent No More book, that's a good starting place anyway for you.

Good luck!

ellawithaspecialnose · 12/05/2014 15:33

I might read that book too, otherside. Since my DM and I have not been talking I really have kind of cherished my own little family unit and tried to focus on them ... the guilt can be consuming, though. One thing I know I can never, ever do is move away from the city I live in. It would utterly destroy DM - as if she had nothing left to live for. I've been away on years abroad in the past, but that was pre-DC and the years had a finite length - there was always a date when I would be back. But if, say, DH got a job even only 50 miles away, she'd be distraught. She couldn't visit/have us visit her/email/phone/Skype, she would be left in this paralysed self-imposed hell.

outtheothersidefinally · 12/05/2014 15:37

Oh ella Sad

rumbleinthrjungle · 12/05/2014 16:01

Ella I'm sorry to hear that.

We were allowed to have coffee in the café (in sight of the bench) and look at the shops that were within sight of the bench, and we managed to have a relatively good day just in and around that wretched bench, but it spoiled the day entirely. I won't make 'secondary' plans any more, it just takes her apart. I wanted to go to visit a site that involved staying a night at a hotel and invited her to come as a nice weekend trip, and made the mistake of agreeing to visit a relative who lives in the area, after which she got more and more stuck on the time we would be arriving at the relative's and how far away the site was from the relative, and by the time we'd got to the point where she'd sit in the car, in the car park, and I could have five minutes to look at the site before we HAD TO GO, I gave up on the site altogether and just went with her plan about visiting the relative. There just wasn't a point to having a row about it.

No, she's never sought help for her anxiety, I don't think she has any idea that she is anxious. This is just how she copes, and there isn't a point in arguing with her about it.

ellawithaspecialnose · 12/05/2014 16:23

Rumble, I don't want to be all doom and gloom, but that sounds really pretty similar to the kind of behaviour my Gran was showing before she was diagnosed with dementia Sad - has that crossed your mind at all?

sonjadog · 12/05/2014 16:39

I read the Codependent book and it has made a huge impact on how I deal with my mother. Really, it has saved the relationship. I dpubt I'd have much contact with her at all if it weren't for that book.

My mother overplans too. She has gotten slightly better with it in plans that include me as I refuse to go along with it. At her worst she would phone me six months before we were due to go somewhere to ask where we would be eating lunch while we were away. Now she starts asking in September what I will be doing the following summer, but I have refused to engage in this topic until March at the earliest the last few years.

Lostfraggle · 12/05/2014 16:43

rumble - that does sound like she has some pretty debilitating anxiety going on. Does she just think everyone else is wildly disorganised / chaotic / spontaneous?

outtheotherside I know, you can't change other people, you can only change yourself...much easier said than done though! Have just ordered a copy of Codependent No More (17p second hand on Amazon!). Might give me a few more insights.

I'd never heard of the term "codependent", but some of my fellow recipients of all this unending help from their mother / MIL / PILs might find these links interesting:
bullet point checklist (scroll halfway down the page) - my mum ticks loads of these bullets - and more basic info - this all sounds very familiar too.

OP posts: