H and his attitudes towards finances

[bullinthesea]

I just wanted some outside perspective on this situation.

H & I have recently agreed to save up for a new car. We're both aware that the more we save, the smaller the loan we would need, therefore lower repayment etc.

Tonight, he announces that he's just bought some stuff for DS's room, at a cost of £200 (without chatting with me about it first).

I replied that decisions like that need to be made jointly, we are meant to be a team after all. Also, aren't we working towards saving for a car? The stuff for DS's bedroom can wait until after we have dealt with that.

He then went into justifying mode, saying that DS's room 'needs' doing (hardly, it's more of a want than a need) and that he wants to crack on & get it done etc.

He always does this.

He decides (on his own) that something needs doing, then steams ahead without considering how it might impact on other things. When I pull him up on it, I'm the unreasonable one for not seeing why he simply 'must' spend money on various unnecessary crap.

The car we're looking to replace is a medium sized family car. He's been looking at all sorts of ridiculous two seater convertible things (hardly suitable for our family), but when I commented that it seemed as though he was looking at babe magnets, he got all shirty about it (given his history, I have every right to be wary about this).

I'm quite prepared to accept the fact that I'm probably being unreasonable about all of this.

I would like to hear your viewpoints.
Thanks.

YANBU. He needs to me more responsible about money and you need to make joint decisions.

My DP does this. We are in financial meltdown.

Sorry, not actually in AIBU, but you are in the right here.

You're definitely in the right. Joint finances need to be properly joint!

The history and babe-magnet cars are a separate issue entirely.

I'd make sure any savings are in an account he can't access on his own in case he puts down a deposit on the car he wants and sod the rest of you.

You're not unreasonable at all. It's responsible adult behaviour to discuss big purchases rather than plunging in and buying things on impulse. Especially if you don't have that much spare money and you're saving for something in particular ie. the car. Would love to hear about the 'history' that means the phrase 'babe magnet' touches a nerve.... maybe there's a more fundamental lack of trust in the relationship that needs addressing?

I would be very wary too especially given your history. He should be working on the character traits that led to his infidelity e.g selfishness, impulsiveness, entitlement etc.

Sounds as if he's putting you in the 'Mummy' position - you're the responsible adult who keeps things stable and he can be as free as the wind knowing/thinking that he's got someone to haul his ass out of the fire.

Even if your finances survive it (and many couples' don't), that's not a positive relationship. It's certainly not an equal partnership.

Does this attitude extend to other aspects of your life together?

Thanks for your replies ;

CogitoErgoSometimes - the babe magnet thing, if you have a look at my previous thread, about his affair/using hookup sites/emailing other women/his aunts money etc, you'll see why it hit a nerve! Yes, there is currently a lack of trust.
I don't want him wasting family money, buying a car for 'posing' rather than a practical economical car, purely for travelling to work & back (like we had agreed), he's just not thinking of the bigger picture. Sometimes we use the 2nd car for family stuff too, but these cars wouldn't fit us all in.

Cozietoesie - thanks for your response, yes that sounds very much like how this feels. I then end up feeling like the bad guy, who's always trying to spoil his fun when I try to look at things sensibly, like a rational adult . The 'Mummy' position is exactly it.
And yes, it makes me feel that he doesn't treat me like an equal.
It's so frustrating.
Previously, we agreed to save for a holiday abroad - we worked really hard at it, and managed to save enough and had a great holiday.

Now that we're back, it's like he's in spend mode, like he can't spend money quick enough. It scares me to be honest.
He says things like, "oh, it's ok if I buy this, cos we can just take out a larger loan when we buy the car". I pointed out that doing that would make our monthly repayments larger, which is quite undesirable. After all, we did agree to save like crazy for the car, in order to keep the loan to a minimum.
Also, we agreed that the car purchase would be in a few months, that we wouldn't rush into buying. Now he's looking at cars & saying - we need to get this NOW if he happens to spot a good deal. He's forever rushing me into things.
Yes, this attitude does extend to other aspects of our life together.

Ah, sorry for rambling.

Thanks for your perspectives, it helps me to get things clear in my head - it's almost like he confuses me into thinking that I'm not seeing things properly.
I always used to trust his judgement, but I don't any more.

Well I wish I could give you some positive advice on how to approach this but it's real difficult because this is purely such an enjoyable position for someone else to be in: all the adult toys and privileges but few of the real responsibilities. I'm conscious also that you have a DS to consider.

(I'm leaving aside the question of his work although I'd be interested to know just how he handles that.)

Do you have genuine conversations about your family and your relationship? Much of what you said seems to include 'I commented', 'I pulled him up', 'I remarked' 'he got shirty' - things like that which sort of imply that you're not sitting down together and really talking things through calmly at any point?

I could have picked you up wrongly though.

Can you tell us what he did to repair the damage caused by his cheating?

What work did he put into addressing and changing his failings and flaws?

Basically it sounds like he did very little work and learnt nothing.

This is crucial and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets up to his old tricks again before long...

"Yes, there is currently a lack of trust."

Then the posing car is just the tip of the iceberg. When you don't trust someone, everything they do or don't do has a suspicious tint to it. Everything they do is just further evidence that they are irresponsible and selfish. That's why mistrust, once it affects a relationship, is so corrosive.

^What CogitoErgoSometimes said^

I'd be stashing the car-savings-money somewhere inaccessible until you reach a joint-decision or you're going to be faced with a fait accompli

The trust issues aside - perhaps he just really doesn't like 'saving like crazy' and would prefer to 'save gradually'. That's not a crime, but it doesn't bode well when you actually have two different financial aspects.

Of course if he is just a wastrel with money then ignore me completely, he's being a prat.

I agree that stashing the savings somewhere safe where he can't access it might be your best option right now. And tbh I wouldn't be taking out a loan with him any time soon if you can avoid it.

Cozietozie - we did sit down at the table last night to discuss this. He didn't seem too interested in hearing my thoughts on the matter, just couldn't seem to see any other point of view other than his own. You're right, maybe it is enjoyable for him to be in his position. Bit of background - this man, upon receiving his student loan (many years ago before I met him) promptly spent the lot on buying a fancy sound system, instead of budgeting properly etc.
When we met (15 years ago), he still had plenty of debt, and I was quite clear that I wouldn't be able to move in with him until he'd sorted himself out financially (I already had my own property and he kept asking me to move in with him).
He seemed to have cleaned up his act - loans were all paid off etc (I was wary about being liable if I became too tied to him), and so I cautiously moved in with him. That was 12 years ago. He knew how I felt about being sensible with money.
Over the years, he's bought all sorts of impulse buys which are a complete waste of money, and I'm just supposed to be ok with it.
He doesn't think to discuss it, he just does it, then gets annoyed with me when I raise objections.
Every time we have a tiny bit of money saved, he starts itching to spend it, on something, anything! I honestly think he has a problem with money and his urges to shop/spend.

Stupid me, when we bought the house, I put down a 26% deposit and a few years on, I paid off our remaining mortgage with some inheritance money. I could kick myself. If we divorce, he'll get half of all of that won't he.

MissScatterbrain - I think you're right here, he did a bit of therapy (about 6 weeks) and then stopped. Yes, I think he has much to learn about himself/relationships. I hope he isn't up to his old tricks before long.

COgitoErgoSometimes - I've been giving him every opportunity to earn back trust, unfortunately, it was smashed to pieces by his 4+year affair, and it doesn't grow back easily.
Although, I would perceive his recent actions as irresponsible, even if I did currently trust him, and would be wondering why he wants this type of car/who he wants to impress etc. it's a typical mid-life crisis type of car that he wants, not the sort of car that fits our lifestyle at the moment. At all.

Sardinia - what you said there is very valid.

DIYtrainee - maybe not, but it's what we'd both agreed on. He can't have a car if he doesn't have the money, but he seems determined to put us in debt. I'm quite happy to save gradually for this, it's him that seems to want a change of car NOW NOW NOW!
When our mortgage was paid off, we were completely debt free. We agreed at the time that we'd only take out more loans if we absolutely desperately needed to. I just can't understand his desperation to get back into debt. Personally I think your last sentence hit the nail on the head

OK. I'm not saying it's Sauve Qui Peut quite yet but in this particular case, and given that you have a DS (I can't remember how old he is?), I'd start stashing away any savings you can muster separately and under no circumstances back any loans he's after.

This doesn't sound like a partnership so much as a living arrangement - and one in which he's taking responsibility neither for past mistakes nor for current responsibilities. I don't believe that lusting after a boy-toy is necessarily a sign of any extra marital activity but I think you would be right to be prudent. (While keeping talking.)

How is he with DS?

"Oh, it's OK if I buy this, cos we can just take out a larger loan when we buy the car"

Well, if he does decide to acquire a babe-magnet against your wishes then it's going to be HIS larger loan, isn't it? Why should you takeout a joint-loan for something that you could save up for and you don't actually need right this minute. Sorry, but it sounds like you acquired a child when you got married and not a husband.

I'd be quite candid about why you think he's wanting a sporty car. And it won't be for ferrying you and the kids about, will it? If he wants to go out trawling for unattached pussy like some sleazy curb-crawler he should just come out and admit it.

And you're right about the deposit and paying off the mortgage: all that money is half his. Or it would be if you two didn't have children who still need to be housed. He could be waiting decades before he can get his hands on half the equity. I know of someone who managed to prevent that happening. I'll see if I can find out how she did it

Oh FFS! KERB!

His actions are irresponsible and it's also disrespectful to exclude you from spending decisions. So all this talk of opportunities to earn back trust I think is very one-sided. He's not only not trying to earn back your trust, he's treating you with contempt at the same time .... I think that's a working definition of adding insult to injury

Well put, Cogito.

OP, have you considered having a post nuptial agreement? I actually think that you may well be better off splitting your finances and letting him live as he wants to on 'his' share of income, and you doing so as well.

But that will only work if you agree how your current assets are to be divided and how any future assets and debts will be divided.

If he wants to spend and borrow, then he can, but only if he agrees legally that you will not be bound by any of the debt that he incurs, and that it will only be held against 'his' share of the assets.

If nothing else this might make him realise that whatever he wants, you will do what you need to protect yourself.

To do this you will both need GOOD and independent (of each other) legal advice.

These are the things the court will consider when looking at whether to uphold the agreement:

• Did each of you have independent advice from prenuptial lawyers before the agreement was signed?
• Did each of you make full disclosure of all material financial circumstances and other relevant matters at the time the agreement was signed?
• Did either of you sign the pre-nup under undue pressure?
• Do the terms of the agreement meet everybody’s needs, including those of your children?

Is that not essentially a formal separation agreement, though, DIY ? (It certainly would be in Scotland.)

No, it's not. It's often used when a couple do separate and get back together though, to protect themselves.

Although I guess it could be if he got the hump