wifework and DH

[Anomaly]

Dh and I have three kids. The amount of work this creates is understandably large. Washing seems endless, cooking, tidying etc. We also have pets - all joint decisions.

I want DH to do more and be more proactive. I get fed the old chestnut that he doesn't see what needs doing. I need to tell him what to do. This makes me want to scream - because its something else I have to do.

He's suggested he takes responsibility for whole tasks e.g. laundry with the caveat that it might take him a while to get on top of it. He's suggested taking over food shopping and cooking. He's done this before and we ended up spending about a million pounds a month on food. He would also never think to go through the fridge and manage the food which I would consider part of that role.

We agreed to have a daily to do list only it turns out its my to do list! Everything appears to be my responsibility and I am breaking. I work less than DH so do expect to do more but the daily work of three kids is just that daily.

We have a further argument when I'm stressing about getting something done in that he'll tell me to do it another day or later. Its not important is what he'll say. Now on the face of it no it probably isn't important but if I put everything off until we have loads of time it never gets done. He refuses to acknowledge this.

I probably come across as very controlling and know I need to let some stuff slide but I am so sick of feeling like a domestic skivvy and being the brains of the operation. Any advice?

I think this is one of the main topics that men and women argue over. Many men see the world, especially housework, in a totally different way to women. My twenty something son finally agreed to do the washing up but he does it differently to me and when he has finished I have to then go out and clean cooker and sweep floor because as soon as last dish is washed he vanishes. I used to moan but now I keep quiet and accept that at least it's one less job to do. I find housework mind numbingly boring and hate it. As I have a family I do what has to be done but hate it. Perhaps you you draw up a list of weekly jobs that need to be done and let him choose which ones appeal to him. The children should be doing chores too regardless of how young they are. The division of labour in the home will never ever be fairly divided I don't think as women instinctively seem to know what needs to be done whereas many men just don't see mess or think about what's for dinner later on. When he does do a job try not to be critical even if it's not how you would do it or like it to be done as men will just shut down and won't engage at all

Perhaps you you draw up a list of weekly jobs that need to be done and let him choose which ones appeal to him.

I give up.

Matildasquared: 'Redroom, I'm not trying to be snarky but:

You don't do a thing to intervene. He will soon start to make it part of his thought process: do I have a clean shirt for tomorrow? Is there dinner in the fridge?

How on earth does that work in a shared household? Realistically it will be the kids going without good food or more likely sharing a crappy takeaway with their dad. And it's laundry for five people, not just him!

Not only is it really patronising to him, this "solution" is absolutely not practical.'

I could not disagree with you more. What do you mean, 'how on earth does that work in a shared household'? It works in exactly the same way that it does when a woman is taking responsibility for it all! If OP doesn't do washing, the DH has no shirts and the kids have no uniform. If OP doesn't buy food, the whole family has no food. Why should she take sole responsibility for all of that? So, when it's his job to go grocery shopping and he realises that no one else is going to be doing it for him- no, they really are not- he is going to need to start remembering. If he was a single parent, he would have no choice but to remember to feed his children. Do you really think he'd be quite so forgetful then?

I actually think your view of what he is capable of is patronising! You are just pandering to the idea that he is bound to forget and the kids are bound to go hungry, so OP might as well not even try to trust him to take responsibility for anything. How does that work in a supposedly shared household? One person has no responsibility for anybody else and there is always someone to rescue them from having to remember anything? Clearly, if he were your husband, you would just allow this to happen year in year out rather that run the risk of him failing to do a wash load.

Well no, this person has already shown that he's happy to just leave things undone. He's already shown that he doesn't care if the household isn't run well.

What would I do if it were my husband? If it were my husband I would tell him to stop buying into lazy misogynist myths and treating me like his motherfucking maid. I'd also tell him that if I'm to be a single parent he might as well move out. Thanks for asking!

I'm not angry at you, I'm just fed up with this nonsense that women have to engage in jedi mind tricks so that their partners will act like co-parents/adults.

She doesn't have to train him to understand laundry, for Christ's sake. It was floated as a possible task for him to take on, his response was that "It might take a while for him to get on top of it."

How does one even "get on top of" laundry? The translation for that is, "Fuck you wife I'm not doing the laundry."

I'm actually more with redroom on this. But it could be just easier because I have a fairly low standard and work full time. We also have a cleaner. But we still have duties listed out. Like he tidies up before he takes DD to nursery. And he hangs up the laundry when done (he couldn't hear it though unless I told him). If he complained the bedclothes should be done more often I just replied that he should have initiated. (Sunday is our bedclothes day sometimes I forget if we are busy). He ran out of pyjamas for a while because I have more than him. I just told him to buy more. He did.

Like I said before it was down down having clear tasks that he does, and when it is expected. And of he complains about something then he cam fix it.

Only thing I always take charge is household finance. I can't let go of that one. It just felt too important to me to delegate.

I don't find the decisions as to what I eat every day, what my family wears, how our homes are decorated, who we invite over and where we go on holiday remotely dull. They are life itself.

Actually we do have a laundry schedule so DH knows what day what gets washed. I usually puts them in but I was so sick in my first trimester so he followed it without a problem. He doesn't notice it's full unless he knows he should check iyswim? We are two adults and 1 toddler so it's just clothes every other day, one day sheets one day bedclothes.

The division of labour in the home will never ever be fairly divided I don't think as women instinctively seem to know what needs to be done whereas many men just don't see mess or think about what's for dinner later on.

Bullshit! It's not instinctive. Little girls are socialised to be helpful and seem to get roped in from an early age (i.e. Learning through doing) while an awful lot of boys seem to get away with sitting around playing on their games consoles and being waited on like little emperors. If their fathers don't model good behaviour, that'll be another lost generation we're handing on to our daughters. It sucks!

For the record, my OH took a lot of training in the early days, which also involved me stopping doing anything (except my own laundry, of course) as an experiment to see what it would take for him to notice stuff needed doing. The morning he realised he'd run out of clean pants and shirts was worth it. We had a few hiccups along the way (inexplicable fondness for the boil wash - for workwear - for example), but we are now definitely a team and he pulls his weight. It was easier because the 'experimental phase' predated children, but it was so worth it. I don't think I could bear the resentment if it wasn't shared fairly.

It could be why DH does the housework with complaining if he was told dustbunny. He is an only so his mum probably gave him tasks? I will have to ask him.

I never did any housework growing up. I'm foreign and where I grew up first (I moved as a teen), no middle class women would do housework anyway. My mum didn't do any cleaning or cooking. She always pities us having to do them!

I think it's less about instinct, and more about direct impact of failure. Even if that direct impact is something nebulous like social consequences of having a shit tip of a house. E.g. I know that when the few people I invite to our house come round, they don't think 'Jesus, WTF has trib's DH been doing all day to let the house get into this state', they think 'why is trib keeping such a messy house?' (I work full-time, my DH is a SAHD but also disabled, which tends to cut down on the hoovering).

That aside, it's less about being able to see what needs doing and more about being able to anticipate the personal consequences of jobs not being done. No clothes before school = panic and stress for all in that critical half hour before the bell rings. If you're on your way to work whilst all this is going down, it's far less compelling as a reason to get the laundry done in good time.

I don't think it's too much to expect your partner to care about stuff that impacts negatively on you or on your children, however. If you choose not to put clothes away and do the dressing before school, that's up to you. But if the task is shared there needs to be co-operation.

They're dull. Mundane. Transient.

Right thanks for so many responses!

The suggestion of getting a cleaner is something I've considered. But in reality I don't do that much cleaning. I mean I clean bathrooms once a week and hoover the house. That's pretty much it and it doesn't actually take that long. The kitchen is 'cleaned' daily in so far as the surfaces are wiped down. If I was minted I would actually want someone to come daily - there are loads of little tasks that cumulatively take a long time. Picking up after the kids, lunch boxes, going through DS1's bag to see what else they want money for, feeding pets, washing, emptying and loading dishwasher, cleaning garden of dog poo, emptying nappy bin etc. Its this stuff I want DH to start to see.

He does do a more than it may seem on this thread - he's the one who does the morning school three days out of 5. In fact it annoys him that he's the one who gets the kids dressed most often and he has the cheek to moan about it! In the unequal division of labour I do enjoy walking out the door at 7.45am and leaving him to it!

He can cook and is much better at it than me and since I've talked to him about how stressed I'm feeling he's promised to up his game. We've never got into the habit of batch cooking and we really need to because I think it would make a big difference to me as I hate cooking. If it weren't for him and the kids I wouldn't ever cook.

Ultimately it is sexism and he's got a great model in his parents marriage. Since reading mumsnet I've become a lot more clued up on wifework. I used to try and keep on top of birthday cards and the like for his family but then realised I was just adding to my to do list. These days I may remind him a few days before - last year he forgot his Mum's birthday and that did not go down well!

Matildasquared I think you totally understand where I'm coming from. I don't want to have to employ jedi mind tricks to get him to do his fair share. If you asked him and anyone who knows us who does most wifework in our relationship they would all say me. Why should I have to put up with that?

I am going to see how the next few weeks go with the cooking and the to do list and if i still feel he's not pulling his weight suggest counselling. He's in charge of cake, invitations and party bags for DS1's party so there will be consequences if he cocks up.

Thanks for the input everyone. Sorry to see I'm not alone.

People who don't care about those things are dull.

OP I completely get the feeling that telling DH what needs to be done is yet another job to add to my list - makes me want to scream too.

I think the fundamental distinction to be made is whether your Dh falls into the "can't" or the "won't" category. I think "can't" (= "doesn't really know how and bit too lazy to bother learning without some incentive") is remediable.

I have a "won't" DH. In my case I have come to the conclusion that "won't" = "don't really think any of this should fall to me because it's woman's work and am sufficiently entitled to think I should get my own way at the expense of my wife even though we both work full time". Incentives like social embarrassment or not wanting to let the DCs down don't really work with my DH - he'll be stroppy with them on the school run or arrive late to birthday parties (because he "couldn't find" the right bus/tube stop), because he doesn't really think he should have to be doing these things. He had previously agreed to be responsible for other things which impacted on the whole family if not done, such as organising car servicing/repairs, but then tried to offload them back onto me. Hence the Great Flat Battery Standoff where he refused to organise a new car battery for 4 months because I was on maternity leave and it was apparently "easier" for me to do it, even though he walked past the garage on his way to work every morning . Eventually I did cave in and do it myself because we were due to go on a driving holiday the following week - he wasn't bothered about disappointing the DCs as he didn't really want to go on holiday.

The only thing that works is to make him responsible for jobs that impact upon him and only him if they are not done - e.g. making his own sandwich for lunch at weekends (DCs manage to do their own at ages 7 and 3), doing his own laundry. It isn't really a solution because, like the OP, I would actually like him to do more on his own initiative, but it (just about) saves my sanity.