My parents

[Photinia]

Namechanged for this. Not sure what I'm hoping to achieve, other than offloading.

My parents have been married for over 30 years. He's mid-70s, she's mid-60s. Very traditional husband-wife roles. They are both a bit eccentric, with questionable social skills/awareness, and I wouldn't want to be married to either of them! But their hearts are in the right places.

DPs are selling their house, planning to move our way. Which is great. Except that DF has now told me that they are planning to buy separate houses.

I have no idea how this is going to work. I don't know if DM knows (or rather isn't in denial that) she is going to be living alone. DF thinks he is going to get 'lodgings', which he last did in the 1970s when a matronly type looked after him. DM hasn't got a clue about money or legal stuff.

DH and I have one DD, 21mo. For various reasons, it's not been the easiest few years but we are just getting to the stage of enjoying parenthood. We're going to be picking up the pieces, aren't we?

The one saving grace is that they (and to some extent we) can afford to throw a certain amount of money at the problem. Anything else we can do? Or is this all going to be OK?

On gosh, this sounds like a crazy idea! I can see why you are terrified.

However, I wonder if you can turn the situation to your advantage? A LOT of older people don't consider their future when making life decisions in their 60s and 70s, and especially don't think about what they are going to do in the highly likely event of arthritis, decreased mobility, and illness. However, there are an increasing number of wonderful care facilities available with staged care packages. These are the kinds of places where you buy a flat in a warded complex with beautiful landscaped gardens and a workshop and all kinds of social activities and food laid on. If you become less mobile or unwell, there is nursing available and you can move up a level to receive a more intensive regime of care. They are absolutely NOT old peoples homes, but places that let people stay independent for longer. The disadvantage is that they are expensive, but you say that money isn't really an issue, so perhaps that's not a problem here?

If you can get them to look at options like this, they might be able to have separate flats but still live in close proximity, and the situation would be future proofed in the event of health deterioration etc. so you would not have to "take on" the responsibility of picking up any pieces!

Oops, x post with orangemog!

(Nice plant! Have on in the front garden..)

I'd go see them together and have a conversation with them. Ask them to tell you their exact intentions - draw it out of them if you have to. My DM we think is early-stage Alzheimers and a few weeks ago she decided my DF should go live somewhere else. If your DF is eccentric and talking about 40 years ago as if it was current, is there any chance he's losing it a little?

Thanks for replying. I also suspect this is DF's idea.

Not sure DM is ready for a retirement apartment. She's a garden potterer, downsizing from a large detached house. But FIL (widower, also mid-70s but in better health than my DM) lives in one locally and loves it, so we might be able to hold him up as a shining example. And we could do with some help in our garden!

ooo lots of answers! I shall read...

They are supposed to be autonomous adults and there is no way that you can be forced to pick up the pieces if you can't or won't. You just need to be clear that you aren't going to be forced into getting involved in whatever decisions they choose to make or their consequences. Easy to say but hard to do, I know.

When they start to look for properties separately once they have a clear idea of what their choices are going to be and what funds they will have, they might not make terribly bad decisions for themselves.

I'd take a step backwards and detach, detach, detach

Cogito - don't think dementia is an issue. They are socially pretty isolated and he just doesn't have a clue that things have moved on in the last 40 years and expects to be able to find a room somewhere as a lodger. Which he might well do, but I am slightly concerned that he will expect more mothering than the landlord will provide.

Their house in on the market, advertised as being chain-free, so they are going to have to rent something (or two things) if they want to keep to that. As and when they get an offer, we might well go down and visit (3hr drive, so not poppable inable with the toddler in tow)

struggling that's another positive - they are very aware that their current house is too big to manage and that they need to futureproof. And they've seen FIL do it.

Bitter I think you are right.

I think we need to set the tone of how involved/helpful we can be now. We are happy to help them navigate the rental market. We are happy to help on moving day e.g. by driving them. We are happy to maintain regular (weekly? that's what we do with FIL) contact with them once they're here. We are happy to provide emotional support (particularly for DM although she can be very odd so that won't be easy). We are happy to show them the ropes of this city.

TBH, I doubt they'll ask for more. But I think I'll struggle to see them make poor choices. But you are right, they are adults.

This must be an awful shock for you.

I think it is really important to sit them both down together and talk this through in detail with them both.

Windymill it did kind of come out of the blue! It was all very matter of fact - came from a discussion about how near the asking price they needed: "Oh, of course we'll need to buy two houses" "err.....will you?"!

To be fair, they have been living relatively separate lives for a while (at least that's what it seems like from the outside), so it might not be a disaster. But I am still worried for my DM.

Hope it all works out. It sounds as though the best option would be sensible bungalows/flats - McCarthy and Stone type developments or otherwise - but whatever they decide with a view to the future. I'd seriously advise your father to think about buying something of his own even he wants to be lodger. He can always let it to pay his rent, thus maintaining the value of the capital for his children and grandchildren

What a thing to be dealing with - you must feel you have children at both ends of the equation.

The plan is definitely to buy something (two things!), but they wanted to sell chain free so they need to go into rented / lodging until they find something to buy. I don't think that's a bad idea, as they are moving to an area they don't know well and where property prices aren't going up very fast, so they can get to know it at a slightly leisurely pace before they commit to buying. They are not staying here though!

In other news, they've accepted an offer on the house. I'm not in the country next week. Ho hum.

hugs

Thanks!

Sheltered housing - have a quick look around your area (internet search). Homes restricted to over 55s tends to be cheaper. It can be nicer to get used to before you really need it. A complex which has a range of different levels of support might be a good idea.

mummytime I think that is what DF will do, and the right thing for him. Especially if he can get something where there is food available, and get a cleaner sorted out!

I don't think DM will settle for anything without a garden she can potter in. She's only 66, so I don't think it's unreasonable of her to plan to move again.

Do you know what Photinia - I'm only 54 and I can sort of see where your mum is coming from. My mum's 77 and wild horses wouldn't drag her into sheltered accommodation.

I'm not quite mid-sixties yet, but I'm seriously offended about how some of you think that people are in their dotage at that age.
My DH is older than that and still working, and I am more than active!

Retirement places (unless very swish and expensive) are very small and if you're not keen on your neighbours it's hard to get away from them.

If your parents could afford two smaller places near to each other, would that work?

I can see many advantages myself...

I know it's a shock for you, OP, but unless there is some from of deterioration, they can make their own minds up about how they want to live.

Nanny0gg, DF is 77 and doesn't want to move again (I think that's the key bit - what he wants) so, as I said, I think a retirement place with variable levels of support is right for him. (I can see the attraction of never having to move house again!) He hasn't done any housework for decades, but he will find his feet. The things he needs help with can be bought in, and he'll probably do U3A or some other interest-based social activities.

DM is physically in better shape, but probably the more socially inept of the two. She hasn't worked outside the home for 35 years. She's not British (though she is english-speaking) and married DF soon after arriving in the country. Some of the things she needs help with (managing money, legal stuff, general life administration) will be trickier to buy in, though others (house maintenance) will be OK.

I am slightly concerned that they don't have a plan for getting her up-to-speed with e.g. managing her own finances, or that if they do have a plan, the plan is me - but I'm not sure if the dynamic of me being the grown-up is going to be tension-free. She's a bit religious and I can see her volunteering, so hopefully she'll keep herself occupied.

I'm still in the dark as to the status of their relationship! DF reckons that he will buy a flat in the next city along from us, and that DM will get a bungalow in a small town in the other direction (they have plenty of capital in their house to do this), so it doesn't sound like they plan to have much contact with each other. I'm not sure how DM is going to be supported financially. There is certainly enough income there, but it's mostly in DF's name. I am concerned that good intentions may not be sufficient to ensure her financial security.

OP - do you think you should get them both to a solicitor to sort out the capital side of things properly.

Photinia - as someone who is unhealthily obsessed with gardening, I can see why your DM might have reservations about moving to a flat. I also think it's incredibly important that she keeps up with the physical activity.

However, there are ways around it. Firstly, some complexes have gardens and some even knock a bit of money off the rent for those who help maintain them. Some places even have warded housing, and each unit has its own little garden! Secondly, there will likely be gardens locally at which you can volunteer - so she'd get a bit of company as well as getting her fix of weeding and planting (not to mention the fact that you say you could use a bit of help). This may be quite good for her as she sounds like she's lived quite an introverted life, and would be at risk of being very lonely if she moved to a house all by herself outside of a complex.

I think the key thing with the adminstrative/legal stuff is to make sure that she feels supported. Here, you and DH probably will have to play a more active role. How are her IT skills? If she knows the basics (or you can get her signed up to a course to teach her the basics), you could get her to manage her finances on a Google docs spreadsheet that is permanently shared with you and accessible at any time so that you can keep an eye on things. If she put you on her bank account as a joint account holder, you could also check she's OK in a couple of minutes a week (it really wouldn't take any longer than this, and you'd have early warning of any problems, e.g. suspicious transactions caused by someone ripping her off). You may also have to help her to understand how to do things like home insurance, utility bills etc. - but again, this hopefully won't take that long once the initial work is done.

I actually lolled when I read "how are her IT skills"! They aren't. She will be much more comfortable with a notebook to record transactions. She won't (I hope! she certainly doesn't need to) be on a massively tight budget.

I think some of the stigma associated with 'retirement' places has been removed by my FIL moving into one. We'll suggest, but I can't see her going for it. I think you are right that that major advantage at this point would be the social side (rather than any physical needs) but I'm not sure she'll see it like that. Which is fine - if whatever she does doesn't work out, or stops working out, she can move again.

I think they certainly should see a solicitor, but I am feeling a bit apprehensive about getting involved in the legal / financial stuff. DPs (well, DF - this has been his job) have always been very British about discussing such things. Really, it's none of my business. I am minded to keep out of it, but keep an ear to the ground and stick my oar in if I think something isn't quite right.