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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Red flags for making new friends?

29 replies

futuremature · 29/04/2014 04:35

Hi,

Through lurking, got a lot of self-awareness about how narcissistic/abusive parents have affected my romantic relationships.

One thing I have also become aware of is how I've gravitated towards toxic friends, repeating that dynamic.

I read on a thread about friendship, some posters saying how they were good instinctively at calling when something was 'off'?

So I'm curious as to how they do it.

I'm 30 and childfree, and my life situation means I'm likely to meet people not within a structured environment. I'm building up a low budget social life from scratch. Don't have an issue with being invited to stuff, I just need to not get latched onto by users or end up with people who aren't "nice".

Can anyone offer me any tips on how screen potentially bad friends out?

Or how I can modify my own behaviour to avoid being targeted?

OP posts:
MexicanSpringtime · 29/04/2014 04:59

Gosh, not an expert on these things and I'm sure there is not hard and fast rule, but I suppose you've got look for people who are kind in thought and in deed.

What I most like in a friend is when they set me an example, being kinder and nicer than I am, so I can aspire to emulate them.

LineRunner · 29/04/2014 07:42

We aware of how they talk about other people, and especially their other friends and acquaintances.

MooncupGoddess · 29/04/2014 07:47

Keep an eye on your boundaries. If you find people ignoring your wishes and trying to trample over you to get what they want, that's bad news.

Long sob stories from someone you've only recently met are also a red flag.

Basically, and especially in the initial stages, friendship should be about enjoying someone's company.

Lweji · 29/04/2014 08:14

Yes to listening to how they talk about people.
Run if they get jealous of other people, particularly your friends. Do they guard their friends?
Also beware of users, and people who show little consideration to you or your feelings. People who don't listen to you. People who speak too highly of themselves and show off.

You will have to open up a bit to realise how they are. Just don't trust them with too much too soon.

futuremature · 29/04/2014 14:36

Many thanks all (wish I'd had this forum at 16 when I left home - but oh well never too late I guess) Smile

OP posts:
Rhine · 29/04/2014 16:08

It's usually a huge flag if you hear them bitching about people who are supposed to be good friends. People who are overly pushy and who always want to be the centre of attention get my hackles up as well.

expatinscotland · 29/04/2014 16:18

Takers and tightwads.

GarlicAprilShowers · 29/04/2014 16:34

My narcissistic 'best friend' used to talk a lot about how many great friends she had - her catchphrase, almost, was "they'd do anything for me." It felt a bit odd at the time. She did do favours for friends, and then would go on about how brilliantly she'd done this and how pleased they'd been with her effort. It's hard to pin down: she was all about painting a glittery picture of her life; making sure she told everyone how popular and loved she was. Like a fool, I put this down to insecurity.

She Wendied me good & proper. Right at the end of our friendship, she revealed how utterly barking she really was. Naturally, I couldn't tell anyone about it, as it sounded so insane!

There are a few other ex-close-friends whom I've distanced, after doing a little exercise that involved counting how many of their sentences began with "I"! One famously left me a voicemail consisting of 15 "I" sentences Hmm

I'm a bit hyper-vigilant now, so can't offer specific guidelines. I'd say move backwards as soon as anyone makes you feel crowded, whether or not you think you could justify this to a third party. It's your life, nobody else's. Good friendships feel like an easy balance rather than a series of dramas. I'll share my biggest rule with you: "What would Mumsnet say about this?" (Good MNers, obv, not the goady fuckers Grin)

FunkyBoldRibena · 29/04/2014 21:25

I remember that old 80s poster 'if you want a friend, be a friend'. Anyone that tries to tie me in knots, offers anything except genuine simple friendship, who demands stuff, or time, or is attention seeking, or gossips about other friends, or who tries to butt into your other friendships...is not a genuine friend. The best ones are when you could not be in contact for months or years and then just lapse into old chumminess without guilt. And who doesn't mind if you are busy doing other things without getting arsey about it.

Anything else for me, just won't do.

Fullyswindonian · 29/04/2014 21:45

I had no real female friends my entire adult life, then at around 43 I met someone new, we had lots in common, and she gave the impression in dress, interests, career, etc that she was an empathic person which is what attracted me to her as potential new friend.

Our first social night down the pub, with a small group of other women she'd just befriended in the village too, she was vicious in describing people on the council estate using the words 'chav scum', and spent most of the time speaking of her recent ex in a very demeaning way, and made comments such as 'men fall in love with me really quickly'.

She did Reiki and was a charity worker in the creative expressionist field which included young vulnerable teenagers so I assumed she was as rainbow tribal ethically as she cultivated her image to be. Yet she was capable of such prejudice Hmm

I think I steer clear of the Queen Bee mentality now. I've learnt that a woman who surrounds herself with minions is capable of causing unrest at a moment's notice if one of the minions breaks the sacred eggshells.

Thetallesttower · 29/04/2014 22:16

I think making really good friends can be similar to having a relationship- you should go slowly, and on the alert for the good and the bad. As others have said, if they say things about others that are unpleasant or talk badly of other friends, that may happen to you. I wouldn't rush a new friendship, it can have a 'heady' phase with you being so pleased to have met, but I don't really do that anymore, meeting up can be spread over months or even years and I just get to know people very slowly. I would also share just a little early on, so that if you then get the sense they are not great, you haven't invested in too much.

It sounds like I hold back from friendships, I don't and I do have a reasonable amount of friends, but I'd rather have good solid friendships than more superficial ones, I'll chat to lots of people at the school gate and at work though.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 30/04/2014 07:40

I'm not all that good at reading people on first meeting. In fact, the number of people I've initially thought were nice but who turn out to be nasty (and vice versa) is such a long list that it is quite embarrassing.

So I tend to hang back, keep things light and polite for a long time and give myself chance to get past my (often incorrect) first impressions. Cardinal rule is that I'd never share any sensitive information early on. I'm always suspicious of those who ask too many personal questions or who tell me personal stuff about themselves or their other friends.

struggling100 · 30/04/2014 08:43

Futuremature - I can relate to everything you say, and also to the hurt in your post about how it feels to be treated this way.

I can only speak personally, and I'm not much older than you (36), so please take what I say with a pinch of salt! And apologies, because this is long! What I want to say is: I don't think solving this is about noticing toxic 'signs'. I think it's about you relating to the world in a different and new way, which will draw the right kind of friends to you. The reason this is long is that, if I just left it there, it might sound like I was blaming you for the selfishness of other people. I'm absolutely not - but I'm saying that in my experience, if you want to escape these people, you have to send different signals.

I realised at about the same age as you that I had slipped into a habit of feeling like I wasn't worthy of space on this earth, as a result of problematic family relationships when I was growing up. That sounds really dramatic - but it wasn't actually a big histrionic thing at all! I simply approached every relationship with a view to 'What can I do for this person?' because my immediate assumption was that I wasn't worth knowing in my own right, and had to give, give, give in order to be someone's friend.

The result was inevitable: whenever I left the house, it was as if anyone with any problem could smell the pheromones. I had random people sobbing to me at the bus stop, people stopping me in shops and telling me deeply personal things about their lives, cashiers crying in the supermarket... you name it. I couldn't go to a party without ending up in the loo comforting some stranger who was alternatively being sick and crying! Inevitably, my 'friends' were all people with significantly problematic attitudes, who believed my own evaluation of myself, and lent on me without mercy or reciprocation - financially and emotionally.

Bizarrely, the key to this ending was when I met someone so utterly and unreflectively selfish as a friend that their behaviour made me stop and wonder why on earth I was doing this. At around the same time, I read that Bradshaw book on The Family - and while I thought it was a bit simplistic at times, it did describe patterns of behaviour that I recognised in myself. I came to see that I was very much inviting all of this behaviour into my life, and that I'd never have a good social existence if I didn't do something about it.

I didn't 'bin' the difficult friends, but I did start to set limits. I stopped lending money to people who would never pay it back. I stopped being available 24/7, e.g. answering the phone at 2am to friends who were drunk and teary. When people abused me, I quietly explained that they had hurt my feelings. I still did all the big stuff (hand holding through dark times etc.), but I refused to be 'on' 24/7. As soon as I started to do this, the people who were really using me fell away of their own accord, because I wasn't giving them the unending attention and patience that they wanted. Some friends, huh? As soon as I stopped giving unconditionally and excessively, they dumped me! Fortunately, at the same time, a new bunch of friends appeared in my life - as if by magic! I realised that it was simply that the effort that these toxic relationships were costing me had actually got in the way of making better and more healthy friendships.

The other thing is something about closeness. When I was growing up, I had a circle of extremely close friends, and very deep trust and connections with them. I've come to realise that this tends to be a wonderful, but temporary feature of youth! (Not to say that there aren't close relationships in later life, but they are rare and precious). I now have many more friends, but at a less soul-to-soul kind of level. I don't expect them to be perfect or on call all the time, and they don't expect that of me either. It's nice.

GarlicAprilShowers · 30/04/2014 14:48

What a great post, struggling. I relate to your story. It's incredible how small changes in our own communication styles lead to big changes in what happens around us.

futuremature · 30/04/2014 15:28

No that's a great post struggling, like I said I also feel I need to and am very open to modifying my behaviour, so am reading and welcoming all the perspectives.

I certainly agree that a lot of my especially toxic encounters (both romantic and with friends) were very much 'too much and too dramatic too soon'.

OP posts:
LadyMud · 30/04/2014 15:47

What a very wise post from struggling! I shall remember this phrase forever, and try to act on it:
" the effort that these toxic relationships were costing me had actually got in the way of making better and more healthy friendships "

sarinka · 30/04/2014 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YouAreMyRain · 30/04/2014 21:54

I had a potentially really good friend loads in common, got on great, very supportive BUT she gossiped too much about other people who were also her "friends" and I realised that she was probably doing the same about me so I retreated.

Lweji · 30/04/2014 22:16

I have only "dropped" a friend (potential, really) so far.

She showed herself not to be particularly reliable (didn't bother to get credit on her phone, which led to me going to pick her up and she not showing up, and other last minute cancellations), selfish (kept talking even though it was late lunch time and I was with DS on the way to pick up our lunch and she was by her front door), gossiped about other friends of her (I got to know intimate things about people I didn't really know), was jealous of people ("You're my friend, not hers") and finally threw a vicious attack about a good friend of mine who happens to be in an abusive marriage.

Purpleroxy · 30/04/2014 22:26

I think it's similar to relationships with men. So take things slowly with new friends and wait to see over time if you are a good match with them. Things that are red flags for me are: over sharing of very personal information very early on, bombarding you with phone calls or getting pissy when texts are not answered immediately, "taking" in general of things, time, favours etc, seeing the person be rude or unkind to other people (anyone). But I am crap at spotting this sort of stuff so I tend to be very cautious.

Appletini · 01/05/2014 09:38

Amazing post from struggling100.

"but I did start to set limits" - this really is key. Having boundaries and making them part of how you exist in the world.

My friendships changed when I changed. You really do need to start with yourself: to respect and like yourself.

neiljames77 · 01/05/2014 10:17

Yeah, I'd agree with the gossiping about supposed friends and if they're being dismissive of what you're saying and steering the conversation to themselves all the time.

futuremature · 02/05/2014 21:58

Thanks for all the posts Thanks

Can I run a situation and see if anyone has any thoughts?

Situation

An "interest" group which has a strong social side to it. I went to 1st meet this last week.

Potential red flag : the meeting point was at a bar, all of the group was late.

About 20-25 minutes late?

It was an online group we met through, so I didn't have and didn't receive any contact numbers, just via e-mail and site. There is a group organiser.

They did apologise and said they had something before which has over-run (which I believe was true - it was mentioned online, and which I also could have, but chose not to attend) but it seemed thoughtless/careless?

I've done OD so was comfortable to wait alone, but I might just have given up and left?

I didn't see any mention of being late on the site page for the group, so no-one had checked in or e-mailed (organiser included) to put a warning up?

Overall I really got on with them, they seemed to be Ok and I felt Smile afterwards - weather aside - and we're broadly 'peers', the sort of people I find it hard to meet because of my transient life situation.

So I don't want to throw my teddies out of pram prematurely, but is this something most "normal" MN'ers would be red flagging about?

OP posts:
futuremature · 02/05/2014 22:15

Sorry to drip-feed, it was a cinema trip they had before (and I've just googled the film running time, and it seems to check out that it ran later than they thought)

My parents were 2 hours late to my wedding to my ex-husband, and I've dated EA guys who did the whole 'your time is not important, but I'll text and call you if YOU are one minute late' thing, so I'm not used to people being on time as a standard for me.

OP posts:
wolfofwestfieled · 02/05/2014 22:24

I don't do second chances for people who are late, unless they have a very good reason for being so AND are very apologetic.

In the case of this group it sounds like they had a good reason for not being able to contact you, so I'd be going on how apologetic they were. What did they say?

I also don't bother with hot and cold types. If people can't be consistently friendly then I don't bother with them at all.