How do I deal with this, with ex husband? Children issues...

[andwhatnow]

I split with my husband three years ago. At the time it was horrendous as he was my upset as it was at my initiation. However, gradually, we got divorced and each own our own houses, etc. Generally things are good between us as long as I bite my tongue!! When we split, he refused to leave the house and it took several months to sell, plus I got very little from it financially. But I agreed to far less, because I wanted out. Our son at the time was 11 and a half. We agreed virtually 50/50 contact which has worked I think, up till recently. Because of the fairly even contact, there are no child maintenance payments so generally, things are I suppose, pretty simple. My ex husband met a lady a couple of months after we split. They have had an on/off relationship but my son has always got on with her. She has two children who are small (five and three I think).

A few weeks ago, she moved in with my ex. Now.... this didn't surprise me at all, in fact I thought they would have done it alot earlier. She and her children have always spent alot of time with my ex and son when he is with his dad, with regular nights over and so on.

However,my son has become a bit withdrawn and, to cut a long story short, (he is very quiet and keeps alot in) he has said that he 'wants a break' from dad's house. He says now that they have moved in, he finds it difficult.

Now... I obviously listened and remained as neutral as I could. As I said, its not a recent break up and I know he thinks the world of his dad's girlfriend, as she has always been great with him. I have just met with my ex, and told him about what has happened. He was okay up to the point that I said that our son 'wants a break'. His face changed and he said something along the lines of 'making him' stick to the regime we have always had. I have tried to pave things over by suggesting that probably within a day or two, our son will be fine and he has lots of other things going on, hormones, school, girls etc!! I think probably, it isn't actually a major thing in terms of him and his dad's relationship but I don't think I can 'make him' go to his dad's tomorrow as planned. Please help me how to deal with this... he's not six or seven but nearly 15 so what happens now?

I think your son is old enough to have this conversation with his father himself as well. And tell him what it is he wants a break from?
Is it that he finds having two small children in the house hard work when he has homework and things?
I'm not sure how best to fix this really. My dc are younger and have at times although rarely put my foot down and taken the fall out argument with my ex if there is a reason the dc shouldn't go to his.
Now your son is older does your ex live close enough to have a more ad hoc arrangement? Ie he can opt more freely depending on homework or plans with friends or whatever whose house he wants to stay at?

I think the best thing to do is to talk to your DS, but to encourage him to talk to his dad directly about what's bothering him at his dad's house.

Do his dad's GF's children go to their dad's at all? Or are they living their full time? If they spend some time away, is it possible to change your DS's routine so he is there more of the time when they aren't? (assuming that it may be living with a 3 and 5 year old that he's finding hard).

I have both DCs and DSC of similar ages to your DS - and all have been doing various routines between two homes for 5+ years. Their needs to change as they get older. Mine have found it harder to manage having their stuff in the right place as they get older and have more complicated lives, and arranging social lives is harder if your friends don't know where you'll be when. The need to have really regular sustained contact with each parent also diminishes I think as they get older - in another 3 years or so your DS will be leaving home probably and not living with either of you. So I do think it's worth starting to let him have a say in how the routine works for him, but also to make it clear that you both value him continuing to have a good relationship with his dad, and that his dad (and DSM) want to include him in the new family. To go from a 50-50 split to not staying at his dad's at all would seem a bit extreme - is there a compromise he'd like to suggest?

But sounds like your ex responded rather defensively to you when you relayed DS's concerns to him - wanting to dig his heals in and stick to the routine. So good if you can support your DS to tell his dad how he feels himself, so his dad can try and change things at his house, if he can, or accept that his DS would be happier with a different routine.

No-one can make a 15 year old boy go anywhere that he doesn't want to. If possible your son should confirm that he doesn't want to visit his father's home himself, and do it face-to-face.

Otherwise you'll just get all the blame for something which is not of your making. I doubt whether I'd have carried such a message in the first place, but that's done now.

Your son has a right to decide to not go to his Dad's. I don't think you can or should force him.

Maybe speak to your son again and ask him if he is sure about wanting to take a break. If he is I really do think you have to support your son in this. Continue to talk openly and make sure he know's he can change his mind whenever he wants.

At that point it might be worth suggesting to your ex he has some one on one time with your son, he is probably struggling to find his place within the home at the moment so he can remove the home from the equation and still maintain a relationship with his Dad.

I disagree Bitter he may initially feel unable to tell his Dad that he doesn't want to go to his house any more himself. I would maybe suggest him speaking to his Dad but if he doesn't want to I would 100% pass the message on.

Try to get to the bottom of it. It may be that if there are younger children there now (presumably both still under 10) they are taking up more of his dad's attention and he doesn't feel it is his home away from home any more since they live there pretty much all the time. He may feel more like a guest than a member of that household.

It may also be that his dad isn't dealing very well with having a son who is getting to be more of an adult. Some parents prefer having smaller children who accept their authority and can't deal well with teens where there is more give and take required.

His behaviour over the time of the divorce suggests to me that he is pig headed and hard to talk to so I wouldn't suggest having the DS approach him.

The DS is old enough to decide what sort of contact he will have with his dad at this point though, so if it turns out that he is adamant, I recommend family mediation if you feel you would not be able to get through to the exH yourself on DS's behalf. The way exH seems to have dug his heels in here already does not bode well and hints at the problem that is causing your DS to baulk at going to his place. Mediation allows families to make arrangements in a civil fashion in a controlled environment.

Oh this is so difficult. My DS is 15 and is starting to talk about not seeing his dad as much, which is only once a month anyway, but he says there's no point raising it with his dad as he (the dad) will just make a huge scene.

I think he just gets bored, and wants to do his homework in his own room and just be comfortable, and not be dragged out on trips at what he sees as the crack of dawn!

I haven't interfered.

Thank you for your replies. This is so difficult. I don't think in itself it is a major thing but I think if his dad digs his heels in it will make things worse. It has been so awkward this tea time. I asked my son to text/phone his dad and suggested that maybe he asks him about going out and doing something. My son seems reluctant to discuss this face to face with his dad BUT he is a very sensitive boy.

My ex is now texting me - he is being okay I think, but insinuating that at his house, our son has quite a strict regime etc etc and he needs to get on with it, in so many words. The thing is, this routine has gone on for three years, its not as though its a new set up.

One poster did suggest that maybe he is struggling to deal with him as a teenager. He is rather contrasting - in some ways he is perhaps stricter than I, but in others he treats him very young. For example he was telling me the other day that he has three sweet jars in the house (for our son, and his girlfriend's two kids who are three and five) and I wondered whether he kind of wanted him to fit in with them without realising he is at a complex age.

It would be hard also for my son to see his dad alone - his girlfriend's children very rarely see their dad. I just don't know how to deal with it. What will I do if he demands that our son goes to his in the next couple of days?

Is there any sort of court order mandating the visiting arrangement that now exists?

Is the visitation schedule part of the divorce papers that were filed in court and stamped by the judge?

We agreed amicably. We stated that he would have 50/50 care in the actual papers.

Tbh it's irrelevant that this has gone on and worked for 4 years. As your ds grows up there has to be scope for change and flexibility. Your son is growing and developing a life of his own that will include both you and your ex less and less.
It's just what happens. My oldest is almost 11 and there already has to be more flexibility in visits with her father because she has her own interests and clubs which do take up some of the weekends she would have been seeing her dad.

Truth is op he can demand all he wants. You are under no obligation to force it and his Dad has no real right too either.

At 15 I can't help but think he is old enough to make his own choices regarding this and I don't think forcing it would be beneficial to anyone. That is if you could force it. At 15 if I had been made to go somewhere I didn't want to be I would have walked in one door and straight out another. In fact I did on a regular basis.

Only you on this forum knows your Son. He might really need you in his corner right now. All he has said at the moment is that he needs a break. That isn't saying he's never going to go back but just that he needs a bit of time out from it all. I would be inclined to give him it.

I can't say I'm surprised, seems like your son is being treated like a very small child.

If he wants a break then he wants a break. He is nearly an adult now and you need to let him choose.

Yes part of me feels like telling my ex to grow up and give him some space for a few days. He text that he feels our son should stick to arrangements rather than deciding things on a whim (his words not mine). I am desperately trying to remain neutral as such.... Because I know that if it were the other way round, I would be a little upset to be honest. In the past our son has been close to his dad, probably closer than most but we are close too. It is hard to gauge their relationship currently because obviously for three years we have parented separately. For all I know they may have grown apart but it's obviously impossible to tell, what I do know is that my son has always got on with the girlfriend so there's no issue there.

I do wonder if maybe my ex is a little stricter (not massively) but my son and I have a more easygoing relationship I think. But we still have routines and a bedtime etc, my gut feeling is that my house is a little calmer and quieter and he gets his own space, I think it's as simple as that.

Ok so moving on.. I have text and suggest we sit down together and/or he takes our son out for some food etc and chats. If we all sit down together, and my son tells him his feelings I think his dad may still insist he sticks to arrangements. How do I tackle it in front of my son. Should we be seen to disagree?

At 15 your ex really needs to let go and realise that he's growing up and has feelings that need to be respected as other posters have said your ex needs realise that his relationship needs to develop a bit further than the it must be 50/50 split or else, into something that your son actively wants to do.

Personally I would disagree with you ex in front of your son, not sure if I'm in the minority with that opinion, but if your son has explained clearly in front of you to your ex his thoughts and your ex still doesn't want to listen then you sitting by passively isn't going to make your son feel great.

I would suggest that prior to meeting with your ex you and your son sit down and properly hash out what's going on with him. Find out why he doesn't want to go, how long (if he knows) he wants the break to last, what would make his visits to his Dad better, how he wants to continue his relationship with his Dad while he isn't going over etc.

I think you then need to back your son up in a non confrontational way towards your ex. Explain it isn't forever and that most importantly it's what your Son wants for the time being.

I don't think it needs to be about you disagreeing with your ex but more about you supporting your son and his immediate needs and wishes. If that is disagreeing (which it sounds like it will be) then I don't see an issue.

If your ex starts an argument I personally would say that you appreciate it's hard to accept but you're not going to get anywhere fighting with each other and that you think everyone needs a bit of time to cool off and then you can speak again. At that point I would leave.

Keep lines of communication open, try and encourage your son to contact his Dad and arrange meeting up. Do they have a shared hobby they could enjoy together?

Your Son clearly isn't happy with the ongoing arrangement and your ex has to deal with that. He can't sweep it under the rug. If he tries by attempting to force your son into something he doesn't want he run's the risk of seriously damaging their relationship in the long term. Plus I'm still not convinced you can force a 15 year old boy to do something he doesn't want to do.

Should have said "don't see an issue with your son being present"

If he stands on any rights he may claim and insists on keeping visitation as it is, then suggest family mediation.

My exH insisted on keeping visitation going and refused to be flexible. He told DS straight up that he would have me served with contempt of court papers if DS refused to go for his weekends. So DS went.

Result? DS counted the weekends he had to spend with his father until he turned 18 and hasn't spoken to him since. DD2 the same.

At 15 no judge will force your son to keep in contact with his dad. He could decide to go and live with him as he can decide not to see him.

Your role here is to be as neutral as possible, although you can mediate a bit.

But your ex needs to realise that his son is not a small child for him to force him to spend weekends there.

Meanwhile, the dynamics at his dad's will have changed and it seems he's struggling with it. Perhaps he feels excluded, or that it's less his home than it used to be, even though they were there a lot, they would be visiting, and now he must feel as the visitor.
He may need support adjusting, but that should be work done by his dad. Either through his own insight, or counselling for example. Or risk ruining his relationship with his son. Or worst, damaging his son.
I think that is all that you can discuss with your ex.

Thank you for all of our replies - things are still difficult, so I am still asking for help!

As many of you wisely advised, I have remained as neutral as possible. My son stayed with me all last week up until Friday evening, then spent Friday evening and Saturday with his dad. They were alone as his girlfriend and children have gone away for a couple of days so it worked out well. I had a chat through text yesterday evening so see how things went (in a neutral way of course) before my son came back today, to gauge how things went. From my ex husband's opinion I got the idea that he had had a chat, my son told him he found living with the children hard at times, so my ex told him that he should discuss things with him etc etc. But, these were the type of things text from my ex to me about the situation:

'I have talked to him about living arrangements and he said he didn't know. I asked him if he wanted to go back to original arrangements and he said yes'. (although since talking to my son, he said that he felt whatever he had said wouldn't have made much difference).
'Speaking to him, I think the kids are a bit too much. They can be. He seems happy to continue as we were. I told him he needs to speak to me about it as I'm not a mind reader. But also, he will have to just face it. If he went out a bit more with his friends there wouldn't be an issue'.
'Its rude to just drop one or other of us for an easy life. He has to share space and time at mine which is what most kids of his age have to deal with. I know this sometimes puts his nose out. If he can't cope with that, he will have to toughen up and learn too, I have now explained things and he seems to have taken it on board'.
'He has to learn, hes not a young child and his actions and words are taken more seriously now. He needs to learn to communicate more, this won't happen if we just let him do what he wants'.

Please give me honest opinions. My son is back today and seems okay, I think he spent some good time with his dad. BUT he has said that he doesn't necessarily want to carry on in the strict routine. I am so bloody stuck and confused. I said to my son that we are going to sit down together, but my ex is away till tomorrow night. How the hell do I tackle it? What impression do you honestly get from my ex's attitude?
Thank you, sorry its long winded.

Oh dear, I do think it may help if you and ex sit down with DS but it sounds like XH is in denial that DS is growing up.

My DC are teenagers and they see their dad whenever they want to NOT when XH wants to see them. What does he think you are going to do? Get the chloroform and gaffer tape out and bundle DS into the back of his car to enforce visits?

No, his plan is clearly to bully DS into doing what he wants at any cost.

I think you need to try to get XH to see that things have to change, but without him taking it personally. You haven't explained your own home situation, but if you were to suggest that if roles were reversed and you had small children at home, you imagine DS would be wanting to spend more time with his dad do you think that would help?

I imagine DS doesn't want to disappoint or upset his dad but is feeling bullied.

If it comes to it you will have to tell him you back DS decision abot how much time he spends at XH house, and explain that if XH wants to have a growing and evolving relationship with his son he wil have to start making more flexible arrangements to see him ON HIS OWN.

Hope this helps.

Good luck

This may be more about your DS deciding where his 'home' is, and not really who he spends the time with.

Most of us have one 'home', even if there is a second or third place where we spend a lot of time.

Why shouldn't your DS have a set 'home'? It's his right, and actually, it will prepare him for when he leaves home and goes off to live on his own.

There is a middle ground somewhere.
Your son does need to communicate, but to do that he needs to be heard. It doesn't sound from your ex's texts that he's listening.
Perhaps he should make an effort to spend quality time with his son when he's there. And he could draw on your son being older to take more responsibility. This also means being given more choices than the youngest children.
The suggestion that he should go out with his mates just shows the type of parent he is. It's a cop out.

In the long term, while your son should get used to different approaches at the different homes, and shouldn't get a free card to simply choose the easiest place to live, your ex's attitude will drive them apart.
It will be normal that your son will gravitate towards where he feels more loved and respected.

I'd continue to remain neutral and support your son on expressing himself and his feelings, but also in wanting them to be acnowlwdged and respected.

Perhaps your ex is feeling a bit guilty that he has moved in with new partner and kids but is transferring this guilt on to your son. I can't blame him for not wanting to go the house now it's so much more crowded and noisy. You sound very responsible and you have maintained a fairly amicable relationship with your ex. Perhaps your son could write his dad a short letter explaining how he feels or perhaps send him a slightly detailed text as that is often the way teenager prefer to communicate. I think all you can say to your ex is that you are not getting involved, that he has to listen to his sons feelings and that there is no way that you are ever going to force him to see his dad. Life has changed yet again for the poor lad and he needs to sort his feelings out. Although he seems to get on well with ex's new partner,it's a very different story when she then takes up the role of virtually being a step mother. Perhaps your son could suggest to his dad that they meet up somewhere neutral, like cafe, so they can still maintain relationship but whereby some of the pressure to accept new living arrangements can be avoided for now