Multiple issues - help to untangle

[Chris2107]

Son dropped out of a last minute attempt at uni with depression, self harming and strong weed habit and lost all healthiness and put on 3 stone in weight in 1 term.
Hubby took redundancy 7 yrs ago and set up own business just at point we had agreed I go self employed contractor to allow me to work flexibly. His income dropped by 75% leaving me to work long hard contracts to make up income difference. We had agreed I contract and take a break due to a number of previous issues of his making that had resulted in depression for me then an affair by him in response. His redundancy has been used to fund his business - circa £100k invested and I earn good money but see v little of it due to family needs. I work long hours and hubby does 8 days a week wfh which means I pick up all domestic duties and every time my back turned any time day or night he is back in his office.
Just needed a new hip and lost contract as a result due to poor recovery. 19 yr old son stealing my strong pain killers and Valium ( never used before but needs must). Daughter a poppet at 17 doing AS levels. Her bf family going through huge issues and am trying to help. disabled mother 130 miles away and complex physical and mental issues and dad struggles to help. Can't drive due to hip to see them and when working its a strain but I manage to do visits and the SOS calls when there is a crisis.
Hubby just taken an expensive and 12 day holiday as he "needed a break" leaving me to deal with all of the looney son, hospital appts for me and him and read out his work emails to him. I was never asked if it was ok to go away and if we (ie my wages) could afford it - answers would have been no
Why am I sharing this?
Because I want reassurance that if I get cross and shout it's to be expected. I need better coping strategies (dh always been adrenalin junkie and we used to do more together). Even his best mate has criticised his behaviours which I want to cut down to stress.
But have retreated to spare room for a month and removed wedding bands. I am looking for a restatement of why we want to stay married as we did so initially after the affair for the kids sake and they are now 17 and 19 and with the financial burden on me for so long I feel so resentful I can't be kind or generous to him - even though my friends would characterise me by these traits. So I can't be kind to him anymore and resent him for making my behaviour towards him less kind than for anyone else. Can't detail the big bad issues which triggered my behaviour but they were bad bad bad and would have made for a v difficult divorce if revealed to the court - nothing perverted but just overly adventurous given age of kids
Did try Relate at one point 7 years ago but it was when he was having affair and I didn't know and he left the room and called mistress and told her everything we discussed so I find it hard to contemplate that route again.
But I am at the end of the line of confrontations which lead to a ceasefire but not real peace because inevitably he will do one more thing of great selfishness and I will lose my head. Married for 23 years.
I have just about enough insight to know he must be feeling bad too but am too involved to resolve any of it so suggestions please would be v welcome.
Signing off now as can smell drugs son is smoking - that's the university dropout one with clinical depression

That's not strictly true though is it, her solicitor advised her that if she divorced him and detailed his risky behaviour in court his contact with the children would be restricted. That was a chance to protect them right there. It wasn't necessary to stay in the marriage to protect the children, it was a choice.

I'm not blaming the OP btw, I understand how she is in the situation, she has the same confusion and bamboozlement that is common in abuse victims. I suspect he is an arch manipulator.

Dear god, he sounds awful. Unsupportive, uncaring, mildly to seriously emotionally abusive.

Look, my oh and I are into our dangerous sports. I got mine into skiing off piste etc. but we always take care and I downgrade my ambition to fit with my oh's skills in order to keep him safe because I love him and want him to enjoy skiing.

Your daughter sounds like she is sick to death of him and his behaviour and she fortunately has the emotional maturity to articulate her worries to you (also a sign of your strong relationship). However, boys are not so good at articulating their feelings and instead your son is exhibiting on his own body his feelings about the situation.

Your family is a mess emotionally and all because of that man. He should be caring for you and your son right now and taking the burden away from your hard working daughter. Sit your kids down while he is away, talk to them honestly about the situation and don't try and protect your h. Find out what they think and feel, together, away from him.

Don't keep fighting for this relationship. Check out of it and build your own happy, calm, successful life with your kids as you all heal physically and mentally away from this man.

*your strong relationship with your daughter that is!

My post was to Sherlock ^^

Sorry OP, xpost with you, and I ended up sounding like I was talking about the cat's mother.

Thinking you can save someone is a rather perverse and self-defeating reason for marrying someone. Only he can decided if he turns out like his father, and he did.

Even he apologised for being a knob his whole life, he wouldn't a) mean it or b) change.

You can't support 100% of the relationship and help him to change when he has no interest in changing or putting any effort into doing so. Anything else is just words that blow away on the wind.

You can't keep doing the same things and expect different results. The same things are you doing everything and trying to make his life easier and helping him to change and expecting him to be different each time. If anything he is less and less inclined to change as time goes on and is digging his heels in more.

You can't make a relationship better if the other person wants the status quo to remain or for the balance shift even more in their favour.

Your children need you now, they need you to support them. A fraction of the effort you've put into your husband directed towards them will kick start them on in leaps and bounds.

Your husband has shown you many times nothing in his world is going to change and you cannot make it. You can only change your reaction to it and the direction of your own life.

Is he still on holiday??? Change the fecking locks!!! (Can you legally do that?) I'm sure both your children would support that!

Call him and tell him that he is not welcome back and will need to make other arrangements.

He is back from holiday and in shock at my untangling response. I did not go with solicitor advice to have separation and social workers involved for v good reasons -as this would have been v abnormal for kids and my father in that line of work for 39 years advised against it. So tbh staying put and keeping guard was the safest option for the kids.
Just had daughter tell me she and son don't want us to stay together for their sake and both kids know I would be their main choice for carer. That is so affirming. They can see through the situation and don't want me to hang around being unloved whilst exams are finished. They think there is a fine life ahead of me and I deserve to follow it. They understand they love their dad but his way is not the way they would choose for their kids. As a result I feel as if I have not completely messed my kids up and have been given their permission to make choices going forward. Mums net - helped get this all out. Not a bad thing ...

Jesus Christ, OP, just read the post about washing machine, wild water rafting, diving ... etc. etc. etc. Sociopath? Psychopath? No kidding - sounds like attempted murder, to be honest. And with the washing machine, BARE BLOODY WIRES? Putting your dear children at risk, along with you? Sorry to be harsh but you're still with him? Sounds as though you're under a sort of malign magic spell cast by him. HE WON'T GET BETTER and he's destroying you, your son, and soon your daughter, too. If some ghastly accident doesn't happen to them thanks to his idiotic 'thrill seeking', he'll grind down their esteem, personalities, confidence - your poor poor son is already on the way to all that.

Please, OP, wake the hell up. I've seldom been so distressed reading a thread. I know you're suffering the after effects of hip surgery - I had a hip replacement, it went perfectly but it was still horribly painful afterwards, so what you're going through after a messed up op, I hate to imagine. But you can start being pro-active immediately - get decent legal advice, split off your finances (and STOP paying for his holidays), and - yes - forget couples counselling because he'll be learning what's on your mind to use against you. Lundy Bancroft's book advises against joint counselling and the book is an absolute bible for women in your position, so do read it.

I spent 20 years married to a sociopath and he was charm personified to the world - fun, generous, gregarious, life and soul of the golf/rotary club etc. But in reality, a nasty, faithless, mean and spiteful man. I regret those 20 years - stayed for sake of kids. Boy, do I regret it. I got out when I was nearly 50 and never looked back.

Please, OP, you've had some amazing advice here from MNs. I hate the thought of you waiting longer - did you say in earlier post something about June next year? Hell, you shouldn't have to wait another week coping with his shit. And meanwhile ... he's off on his hols, again, LEAVING YOU LIMPING AROUND, IN PAIN, TO COPE, while upstairs your darling son is in emotional hell himself and your sweet daughter is anguished about everything that's going on.

Sorry for the epic post. I just feel so angry and frustrated for you.

OP, just read your post above mine ^ thank God.

I hate reading about children particularly daughters who have to turn into parents. It damages them terribly.

This thread reminds me of one (in the other place eventually) of a woman who suspected she was going to be forced into an unwanted 4th (?) pregnancy, whose husband required her to give up well-paid work to be a SAHM to support him, but whose husband controlled her finances, and the safety of her home. Rooms in their house were unsafe for their small children, the washing machine didn't work, and he refused her "permission" to buy a dishwasher to ease the burden of housework with 3 small children.

She was clearly being abused but just couldn't see it. But she eventually did, and got away with the help of Women's Aid. She was formerly an independent, well-paid professional woman. I hope she is once again, just as I hope you become so, once again.

Yes, Oldgrandma, it sounds like the plotline of one of Agatha Christie's lesser works.

Hope you aren't insured in his favour, OP.

Your children are telling you they want out. Sounds like that's what you need to do for them -- and this time don't let your father's 'advice' put you off. Surely no 'abnormal' separation could be as weird as your life with him has been?

You've come a long way in 4 pages, Chris! I think it's unanimous that this marriage isn't worth saving.

I really like Twinkle's post yesterday about trauma bonding. I do understand why you felt it safer to stay when the dc's were young. Just because your solicitor felt contact should be restricted doesn't mean you'd actually be able to get that arranged in practice. Similiar things have been said about my ex from time to time, but it's not always realistic to think you'll get contact stopped on the basis of feared harm in future, as opposed to harm that has happened already.

Anyway, thankfully that's irrelevant now. What's stopping you, woman? You're in a great position! Financially solvent, not child contact issues. Your life is going to be so much better without him in it. I think you'll be amazed at how soon you'll be able to throw away the Valium once he's gone....

In the end once recovered from hip I will be solvent and less busy. ATM I spend my days in exercise for hip, chasing up medical appts for son and me.
Not an adrenalin junkie for husband at all - just trying hard to be loved and then repeatedly when I shout because of the latest - repeatedly - piece of nonsense take most of responsibility for creating relationship set back by shouting. Kids have seen and heard too much and I feel v bad about that as it's been my shouting - husband says it's cos I am naturally combative and he doesn't want to fight. I think he just wants it all his own way. He said to me he would support me if I wanted to go off and do things like long holidays but the point is by the time I have done all that needs to be do e there's no time or money for me to do that. And if I did then there would be no time together or as a family. So from his perspective turns sounds fair and reasonable - take turns - buts it's an empty offer for he knows I would not leave kids for my own holiday - especially whilst all this has been going on.
But when you are the shouting one it's easy to fall into the pattern of feeling like you need to make the peace - so you just stop shouting without anything being resolved. Life is hard but less busy than in 10 years so only now am I getting my head round it all. Been trapped by practical work/home/ kids circus and desire to want to make marriage work. But not addicted to him - frustrated to hell and back by him and shout about it. I never shout in any other circ - so don't think I am a shouting addict either .... Just had a bit too much practice and worry I could make same mistakes again with someone else.

You don't need to be loved by this man to be ok. You have just got dependent on his approval. I'm not sure that he can love in any meaningful way, he's totally self-oriented.

You must not berate yourself for shouting at him. You have not 'set the relationship back' by doing so, he is the cause of all it. You are simply reacting to his extreme antisocial behaviour, and manipulations - his holiday strategy is a case in point. He says he wants you to take a long holiday but he knows you won't leave the kids, & so much money goes on his holidays that there's none left for you. He says one thing and does another, you're so impressed with his apparent reasonableness that you don't notice you've been had.

"I did not go with solicitor advice to have separation and social workers involved for v good reasons -as this would have been v abnormal for kids and my father in that line of work for 39 years advised against it. So tbh staying put and keeping guard was the safest option for the kids."

I'm sure that's an accurate representation of what happened but there are a number of fallacies in there IMO. I don't think your father's advice was helpful there.

Keeping your children in an environment where they are put at risk is not the safest option, it has not transpired to be the safest option. What risk do you think appropriate support for your family from social services to keep their damaging father away or keep them safe when he saw them would have done?!

I have to say that I disagree with bibliomania, I accept it is sometimes difficult to protect children from a NRP who has not yet done anything abusive or neglectful to the dc but in this case there are numerous incidents where the op's h has endangered and neglected the dc and in those cases it is not difficult to get steps put in place to protect them like supervised contact, indirect contact, restrictions on where he can take them and what he can do with them and contact being withdrawn if he breaks the rules.

It is ridiculous to think it is safer for the children to stay.

But yes I see that this is part of the thinking you have when you are with an abuser. It is more about cognitive dissonance and difficulty breaking away than it is about a rational choice to protect dc.

I'm not advocating the merits of staying, Offred. I'm saying why I understand the OP's logic in the past. Believe me, I'm in favour of leaving a dangerous relationship and dealing with contact issues as they arise.

But the point is that there's no value right now in discussing what OP should have done x number of years ago. What she needs to concentrate on is what to do now, and I think that's a better use of her energy than having to defend long-ago decisions.

Offred - I know what he would have done because on the one opportunity he had to holiday with the kids before the plane incident he was stupid with them and whilst it was not dangerous they basically ran out of food because at 6 and 7 they could not carry enough. This happened without my knowledge when I went on my sailing Holliday. Why did he do this with them? Well the summer before the running out of food trip with the kids - before the plane in a field - we had met up with friends in the Pyrenees. He wanted to do a 3 night camping linear mountain walk across peaks. I was not keen as ambitious, linear walk with no early escape for kids down off it and weather been unpredictable and due to late planning It was highly not possible to get booked into mountain huts so we would have to camp and take all the stuff with us. On set off day kids too tired so he went on and said I should bring them up the mountain pass - and remember to bring food and water for 3 days just in case. I struggled to pack rucksacks for the kids and me with one change of clothes in case the weather was stormy as it had been. I pu the sacks on my kids backs and they fell over backwards and that was without my sack being loaded up with food and water and I was scared that I could not supervise them safely and get them up the mountain. My friends hubby and wife who couldn't have kids walked into hotel room at that point to find me in a pool of tears surrounded by rucksacks. Her hubby scooped us all up and got us moved into a hotel. There were storms in the mountain overnight and H retreated. He blamed me for us not setting off together as the previous day we had done an enjoyable walk which had left the kids tired. My friends were appalled. The 4 day walking trip "travelling light" win the kids the following Easter was to make the point that they could travel light. At worst they had to live off bread and swizzle sweets for a couple of days. But the point is he would do stuff with them if if was. To there and do it his way just to make the point that "they were perfectly capable" - his fav phrase. So stop please telling me I should have left years ago because I have prevented many things from happening by being around to control the excesses and still some stuff has got passed me and I feel awful about that but it's better than it would have been. Even the solicitor advised against social worker involvement as it was hard to escape from - what she did was tell me the logical outpace if I revealed the stories.

The past is the past, so I think you need to avoid getting bogged down in whether it was the right decision or not back then. Time for that later. For now, it's much more important to concentrate on your next few steps.

I agree woulds or shoulds about the past are irrelevant now, the focus should be on the present.

What can posters here do to help you OP?

I think it is important because you're still in the mindset that he has the power to decide everything tbh and you aren't going to get free of this or him or protect your dc while you are still bogged in that thinking or having that thinking confirmed as correct.

I'm not trying to change the past or tell you you should have left ages ago, it is a moot point because you couldn't and didn't. It's about the future.

Your h would not have been allowed to take your dc on those trips at all if you had split and been able to take steps to protect them and I think it is obvious from your story that it is outsiders stepping in who prevented you from doing what he said.

It's worrying and yes it is his fault but if you split and you are able to fight for it (or could have done then) he would not be able to put them at risk, it would not be up to you to try and desperately protect them while he put them at risk. He just wouldn't be able to do it. The more you accept that he has ultimate authority and all you can do is minimise the risk the longer you'll be stuck with him and I don't think you should be blamed, that's not my aim, but I do think you need to see these decisions as controlled by him and that you have other better options.

I think you should get in contact with women's aid really because you're living in such fear of him.

Can you see what I mean? Saying yes she would not have been able to protect them if she'd left is just saying to her 'your fears are correct he really does have ultimate power over you and the dc'?

You can be free of him op and he does not have any power unless you give it to him. The fear he has created in you of him is not keeping you and dc safe it is directly harming you IMO.

Prob time for me to stop posting for a bit as the buried memories are rising up and swamping me and I am losing ability to docus on kids and visiting parents.
You are right - I need to focus on future. So posters here - I will let you know about my counselling which is on 6th May and may stay away til then. You have been brilliant at shining light into my head thoughts so thank you.