The Other Woman has finally come out of the woodwork...

IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 20/03/2014 23:59

Time will help. But it sounds like a horrible shock. When did you find out and how long has it been doing on?

fifi669 · 21/03/2014 00:08

OW will be around your kids but it doesn't and probably shouldn't happen yet. Maybe in 6-12 months when you and the kids are over the shock and their relationship is looking stable. I'd request ex to follow this for the kids sake.

Bogeyface · 21/03/2014 00:22

The thing that hurts me most is that they'll play happy families with my beautiful DD after their actions have ripped her little family apart.

I would say that to him/them, changing it to The thing that hurts me most is that you'll play happy families with my beautiful DD after your actions have ripped her little family apart.

It wont change what they want to happen, but it will make it clear that you are not allowing them to just waltz off into the sunset, leaving behind what they did.

Puddles1234 · 21/03/2014 00:33

Personally I would not be allowing my child to see this woman until they have together approx 1 year. Don't know if you can legally do that but I would try.

I would also demand that I meet this woman first before I allow my daughter to meet her.

Probably not for everyone but I know of someone who done exactly that and the lovely ex husband shit himself.

Hope you are ok. Men can be utter arseholes.

wannaBe · 21/03/2014 00:43

puddles legally you can't do that. You can't even demand to meet the new woman before she meets the kids. Op and her h are no longer together, who he sees is now his business, ditto who he introduces his kids to, as it also is with the op fwiw.

Op - how did you find out?

tallwivglasses · 21/03/2014 02:31

Yes, you can't demand anything. You can ask, I did. He took dd to OW's house behind my back. The main thing is, dd was happy. She liked OW's kids and OW was nice to her. You have to let them get on with it. You'll always always be her mum.

GertTheFlirt · 21/03/2014 02:46

You cant demand anything. I presume you would be delighted for your ex to vet your boyfriends? I certainly wouldnt allow anyone to have that level of control over my life.

AlfAlf · 21/03/2014 03:08

This is getting side-tracked, op hasn't mentioned demanding anything
All she's asked is for some hand-holding and advice about how to cope.

notnasty I've been there. It's a shit place to be, I remember being eaten up by anger :( but yes, it does and will get easier. My advice is always put dd first, don't lose sight of what's best for her: having a good relationship with both parents, and eventually having a good relationship with any step parents too. OW may have no interest in your dd, but if they stay together it's best for dd if she does, ultimately. You'll always be her mum, no one can take that away xxx

GawjussStunningHunLoolz · 21/03/2014 03:20

How long have you been apart? If it's not very long then there is no way she she be meeting your DD already and I would be furious with him for that.

It it is quite a long time, and a suitable/respectable amount of time for him to be introducing a new partner then perhaps she wasn't the OW after all? Has he admitted that he was seeing her all along, or are you just making that assumption?

Original poster

Notnastypasty · 21/03/2014 03:28

I found out he was having an affair in the summer, it had been going on for 9 months. I forgave him as I desperately wanted to make it work and he convinced me that he did too. Two months ago he just said he was unhappy, had never loved me blah blah and moved out the next day.

I found out today that her and her partner have also split - apparently they're not together but neither her or DH can rule out a relationship starting again soon. I think we all know the real story!

Dd has already met her - he took her on a date whilst conducting his affair. I wouldn't expect her to meet her again for a long time, nor would I introduce her to anyone for at least 6 months.

Bogey - I have said that but don't think it makes much difference to him, he's changed beyond all recognition.

Puddles - I have spoken to her already (not met in person) and I can't say I believe her to have my daughters best interests at heart.

Alfalf - sorry you've been here too. How long do you think it took to be able to let it go and not be eaten up by it? The thought of her being welcomed by his family and friends and being around my dd after all the hurt they've caused makes me feel physically sick

OP posts:

Mrscaindingle · 21/03/2014 07:10

I had a similar experience, my ex left me, swore blind no-one else was involved but I just knew. He took a 'friend' to meet my boys when they were going to see a movie and I knew it was her.
I had it confirmed a few months later when he accidently sent me photos of them when he updated his iPhone.

It is a horrible time and I was completely consumed by anger and bitterness, I used to make excuses to go to Asda so that I could cry in the car.
In answer to your question about how long it will take to feel better, in my case 9 months down the line I am jo longer consumed by thoughts of my ex, it helps that he now lives abroad and so I have very little contact other than by email. If you have to see your ex and perhaps his new girlfriend with your children it may take longer to feel more detached.
You WILL get there though and the day you feel nothing when you think about them is the day you know you're over it.

Try and concentrate on you and find things that make you happy, spend time with people that care about you and one day you will realise you are hurting much less.

Good luck

crispyporkbelly · 21/03/2014 07:43

Fuck them, my child wouldn't be allowed near her until they had been together longer. It could just be a fling.
Why do men get away with introducing new partners straight away but women have to wait fecking years to introduce someone? Bollocks to that.

Hope you're ok, op. what an arse

Chickens123 · 21/03/2014 07:48

I wonder if there are two big issues here. What he has done to you, betrayal, lies, (abuse? I'm not sure if that happened) and what he is doing with your DD, playing happy families.
I will never forget my no long gone ex and his female 'friend' who turned out to be his bit on the side, driving off in an open top Audi with my daughter sat in the car seat, off for a day at the seaside! It broke my heart, not only because they had, what I saw as an amazing friendship and I just had bruises, but also because they were putting my child into the mix and making her theirs!
Hmm anyway back to your situation. Does it feel wrong? Or uncomfortable or unsafe or all of the above? Do you trust your child with this woman? I'm not a family lawyer but I think you can and should have a proper discussion with a legal person about access rights. You are her mum and if it feels wrong then you need to voice that.
The second point is I think fathers can see their kids in most situations, so one day this will happen and maybe with time you will assimilate it into your life and see it as a bit of a break and time to focus on you. I think it's ok to feel the pain you are in, for me the pain stops me making the same mistake again. But I hope for you one day soon the pain and loss you rightly feel will subside and you can do the moving on thing! I wonder if even when we have been totally devastated we still think 'best foot forward' and carry on working, getting the kids up for school, smiling and making small talk. But inside we are just destroyed. Get legal advice, cry, watch telly, punch the wall. One day things will begin . To turn around for you. Not sure if any of this helps. X

maleview70 · 21/03/2014 08:19

The key thing for your daughter in times like this is that she feels that both of her parents are around for her. Making demands and frankly being petty (as some on here are suggesting) is not in her interests.

The best outcome for any child in these situations is maintaining a loving relationship with both parents.

I would be sitting down and explaining to your ex that you want him to be focused on that and not to lose sight of what is important, your daughter. If he doesn't see her then maybe he calls her. I rang mine every day I wasn't with them for 10 years. Never missed one day. I think it helped reassure him that I was there (it was my ex that had the affair before anyone asks)

It is not beneficial making demands because whilst it might make you feel a bit better, it won't help your daughter. Hopefully, the OW whilst having no morals, is not an evil witch when it comes to kids and in time, if their relationship lasts then she may actually be a positive influence (I accept that is hard to imagine right now)

You are raw and will be tempted to hit back at him but I wouldn't get involved in that. The best thing you can do is show dignity and show him that you are getting on with life. It is hard but you can do it. Resentment and bitterness are never helpful in splits.

Offred · 21/03/2014 08:46

The key thing for your daughter in times like this is that she feels that both of her parents are around for her. Making demands and frankly being petty (as some on here are suggesting) is not in her interests.

The best outcome for any child in these situations is maintaining a loving relationship with both parents.

No, it isn't. The key thing, as would be considered by law is the welfare of the child. Having a relationship with both parents is considered as being in her interests unless it is damaging.

One of the ways it may be damaging to maintain contact with an absent parent is if the parent is not building the contact around a child for example by insisting the child spends contact with a new gf straight away.

It is in the interests of the child that her environment is made stable and that the transition to new circumstances is made smooth.

A parent who has left the family home needs to re-establish their relationship with the children by committing to regular and stable contact with the child with a view to making the child feel secure in the fact that they have left the home and not them.

Introducing a new gf because you want to prove the relationship is serious enough to have left the family for is a common mistake which damages children and primarily damages the child's relationship with the parent who has left.

You should absolutely be insisting that your ex prioritise your dc, this is in his interest as well as his daughter's, if that means making demands in order to protect her from being used to salve his guilt then so be it IMO.

People are incorrectly staying the law.

Constitutional principle states that which is not forbidden is allowed. With no court order there are no restrictions on what you can do. If you act in the best interests of dc and can back that up with strong arguments then if it goes to court you will likely be listened to.

He should see his dc but it should not be with his new gf until their relationship is stable and secure.

FabULouse · 21/03/2014 09:01

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wannaBe · 21/03/2014 09:19

no court would sanction a parent withholding contact because the other might introduce a child to their new partner or putting stipulations on what they can/can't do with their contact time. Because where would you draw the line with that. Some people have a new gf/bf (and let's be honest it's not just men who do this) every few months and introduce the kids to them all. Some have a long term partner and wait a while before they make the introductions, some make the introductions sooner and the relationship still lasts, some leave for OW/OM and introduce the kids quickly - and everyone could have an issue with any one of those variables and expect the law to be on their side... it doesn't work like that.

In my case my ex actually decided that ds should know that I was in a relationship as soon as I got together with bf so he brought him round unannounced so they could meet each other, he then gave me an ultimatum - either I tell him the truth or he would. (I will add at this point that bf wasn't an om), so I introduced them properly but first as my friend, but ds isn't stupid and worked it out pretty quickly for himself. He and bf got on fantastically well and then my ex decided that actually I'd introduced them too soon. (it had only been about six weeks after we got together fwiw, and nowhere near the timescale I'd had in mind). Imagine if he'd gone to court to demand that I not allow ds to spend time with me/bf...?

As much as someone might want to make these stipulations, they are often made out of personal feeling not necessarily out of the best interests of the child. We assume that this is best for the child because we don't like it... iyswim, and in some instances, it is. But ultimately the child will have a relationship with om/ow anyway and ultimately they will learn the truth of what happened. The best outcome is to show the child that mummy/daddy still love them, and even if you think that having an affair and leaving for ow must mean they don't that's not necessarily the case, and is far more damaging to the child than ultimately having a relationship with the new partner. I've actually seen people say on here that a woman should sit her children down and tell them that daddy has left for another woman and that they don't love them, to make him see the horror of what he has done, and have seen mn'ers agree with her doing so.

Offred · 21/03/2014 09:20

Of course ow/om don't have the best interests of the children of the marriage in mind, but why should they?

I will say that although initially I insisted that my dc needed to build up a relationship with their father alone before he introduced ow/gf (this was good plan) he did eventually introduce her when they were living together but because he was still lazy and disinterested it didn't really help long term.

Fortunately/unfortunately they built a great relationship with her because she did really care for them and then she found out he was cheating on her and he dumped her :(. His now wife is nowhere near as interested and the children are nowhere near as happy or well looked after when they see him.

I do really wish he'd stuck with the ow (should say girl really as she was only 20 at the time) as she'd have been a great step mum. However I know he's picked this girl to marry because she's very compliant and non-existent and ow was a real person like me.

Offred · 21/03/2014 09:29

The court does support insisting that the contact should be with the parent alone until their new relationship is established. This isn't considered to be withholding contact. You are offering contact the other parent is refusing because they want to bring their gf/bf!!!

Courts take a dim view of that because the contact is for the child's benefit not the parent's.

It is a very bad idea to introduce someone immediately after the break up, especially when you don't have to but just want to. Especially when the relationship is not secure either between the adults or the parent who has left and the children. It normally just destabilises the dc and their relationship with the parent who has left. If you wanted to use the dc to punish the one who left for ow/om you'd be best to push for contact straight away with ow/om because it damages the child's relationship with that parent.

I've actually seen people say on here that a woman should sit her children down and tell them that daddy has left for another woman and that they don't love them, to make him see the horror of what he has done, and have seen mn'ers agree with her doing so.

Are you sure that wasn't on Netmums? or in your head because I've never seen anything of the sort. Maybe you could link to the thread(s)?

Offred · 21/03/2014 09:32

And yes it is different if the dc live with you. A NRP has literally no reason, other than personal preference, to introduce a partner unless the relationship is serious and stable.

Original poster

Notnastypasty · 21/03/2014 12:01

Thank you for all the replies. I would never withhold contact - I want dd to have the relationship with her dad that I didn't get to have with mine.

He has been seeing her 3 times a week and calling everyday. I also text him photos and videos of her and keep in contact with his family (at their request) so they can feel close to her.

However much he has hurt me (btw there's been no abuse, I thought we had a fantastic relationship) I would still like it to be amicable. I was hoping that further along, he would meet someone else and so would I and we would all be mature enough to attend dd's birthday parties, school plays etc. I'm just not sure I could do that with the woman who has played a part in breaking up my family.

I would never try and stop stbxh attending any of these things but he can't understand why eventually I wouldn't want OW there as well. He says I'm making it difficult for DD. He can't see why I would be more hurt with the OW being around DD than if he had a new girlfriend.

He is still denying he is seeing her but 'can't rule it out' in a few weeks time. Think we can all see where this is going.

At least I know the real reason for him leaving now, it's not just that I'm unloveable.

Would I be unreasonable to say I don't want OW to attend dd's school events or parties in the future? I don't think my friends or family would want her there and neither would I but I wouldn't expect stbxh to miss out. Guess that's his choice. I know she will ultimately play some role in dd's life just hopefully not a big one - I don't believe she has dd's best interests at heart - she had an affair with her dad and went on a date with him and her!

OP posts:

Kaluki · 21/03/2014 12:12

You poor thing! I've been there and its shite, it really is
I know at the moment you feel like you don't want her anywhere near your DD and this is totally understandable but you are going to have to allow it in the future if they do stay together. You can request that she has little or no contact with DD but he isn't obliged to agree.
Same with school events, you can't insist that she stays away. One would hope that she has enough dignity and respect to want to stay away but then if she had any of that she wouldn't have shagged a married man would she!
How old is your DD?

Kaluki · 21/03/2014 12:14

Also try and see the positives. Now you will have time for yourself when he sees DD, you don't have to put up with his crap anymore. Think of all the things you disliked about him and enjoy the fact that you don't have to put up with them anymore.
It will get better, and you will get over him and move on (and maybe like me you will realise in time that he did you a favour and taken out the rubbish for you!!)
chin up!!

Kaluki · 21/03/2014 12:15

*she did you a favour by taking out the rubbish for you!
Brain going faster than fingers

Offred · 21/03/2014 12:37

Would I be unreasonable to say I don't want OW to attend dd's school events or parties in the future? I don't think my friends or family would want her there and neither would I but I wouldn't expect stbxh to miss out. Guess that's his choice. I know she will ultimately play some role in dd's life just hopefully not a big one - I don't believe she has dd's best interests at heart - she had an affair with her dad and went on a date with him and her!

There's two main reasons it is unreasonable;
A. She means nothing to dd and therefore there is no reason for her to be involved ATM. Once her relationship became established with your ex she would develop her own relationship with dd and perhaps start becoming important enough to be invited, so you would need to reconsider this then as it may cause dd stress if someone important to her is not allowed to be involved because of you. If the relationship got serious you could only legitimately safeguard dd from abuse from her, you can't (and shouldn't) stop them getting close if she is nice.

B. No-one knows how long this relationship will last. Affairs rarely withstand the translation into the everyday and it would be unfair to encourage dd to get too emotionally attached to someone who, it is highly likely, isn't going to be a permanent feature.

What is your ex's reason for wanting her involved? If it is 'she is important to me' he needs to realise that even if that is so, he has to be able to assess objectively what involvement it is appropriate for dd to have in order to maximise her welfare and his relationship with her.

'She is important to me' normally can be translated to mean 'I want people to take this relationship seriously so I'm going to use my children to send a message to others that I didn't leave for a trivial reason' which is clearly unacceptable.

Re the ow's interests, time will tell. Having an affair says nothing about what kind of step mum type figure she might make really and you may even come to appreciate her in a few years (will seem impossible to you now I'm sure). My ex also took our baby on a date with his ow, was the only time he had ever cared for him on his own in 7months and so it was particularly hurtful but I got over it and appreciated the love and care ow/gf showed my dc in the end.