My random thoughts on Relationship threads..

[Andy1964]

I've been reading and posting on here for a while now. some may agree with my views and advice and some may not but hey, we all deal with things in different ways and that's ok.

There does seem to be some common issues that couples/families need to deal with though.

Couples/Families don't seem to have the ability to talk honestly with each other. From a guy's point of view I kinda get it because in general we don't seem to be made that way. It's either too embarrasing to talk about or we don't want to upset the status quo. It's a guy thing but it does not help us! We, as a gender, really need to open up more and be prepared to discuss things regardless of how uncomfortable they are. My wife and I learnt to communicate even though we both thought we were good communicators.
There is no shame in seeking help from outside sources/proffessionals (councellors) so if you are having problems please learn to talk to each other, don't row, have an adult conversation. A row will only serve to get everyones back and defences up. Walk away from a row and come back to have a conversation when the time is right. I can't possibly do any harm!

Sometimes we make the wrong decisions in taking a partner, we don't often, as a race get it right, first time round. Reading through some of the posts on this board horrifies me. Some partners (mostly guys on here) are really not worth wasting anymore of your time with. Don't be afraid to LTB please. Yes it will be hard to start with, it will be upsetting, your world will fall apart, you won't be able to stop crying, all you will want to do is curl up in a ball and forget everything but it WILL get better and you WILL be better off. This may come as some very harsh advice but sometimes you really do need to just get on and do it and roll with the bad times.
Even if you don't have a support network of friends and family there are many other forms of support including some of the experieced posters on here, you just have to seek them out.
Chances are if you've mad a mistake in choosing a partner and it comes to it you will be happier on your own than with some of the horrible guys some of you post about.

So conversations, accepting that it's ok to have chosen the wrong partner and having the balls (insert female equivallent) to LTB are my sage pieces of advice.
Very generallistic I know so what other general peices of advice would you give given the general theme of posts here?

Gosh, thanks OP. It's all so much clearer now.

I guessed before reading this thread it would be posted by a man

Lovingfreedom because it's mansplaining! Even though it's not bad advice in the main it's delivered with an air of 'as a man, my opinions are intrinsically interesting to you ladies, so let me tell you all what I think'

I'm not sure I've ever seen such a brilliant example of mansplaining on MN & I've been here years.

It should be saved and offered up whenever anyone asks for a definition of mansplaining.

FWIW your wife taking the lion's share of communication is not you working as a team and I'd say it is something that is a risk to your relationship

And "Mansplaining" is when a man talks to a woman as though she knows less than he does, especially when it's bleeding obvious that this can't be the case. It's a derogative term but I personally think it was a fair comment.

Gosh, thanks OP. It's all so much clearer now.

I intended this thread to encourage debate and shared experiences that may offer some support.
Shame :(

Sorry andy, wasn't being entirely serious

Exactly.

Don't worry. The last thread started in a similar vein didn't go so well either, and it was started by a woman (or a hairy trucker, who knows...)

"From a guy's point of view I kinda get it because in general we don't seem to be made that way"

Personally I think anything that starts with a sentiment that suggests men just can't help it is a bit silly.

I agree with the OP, everyone should either talk to their partner or leave them....simple! :D

We can shut down the relationships forum now MNHQ.

Just leave this as a sticky at the top.
Job done.

I intended this thread to encourage debate and shared experiences that may offer some support. Shame

A few of you have made some good points though. It must be harder for women that it is for men. I agree that they burden the lion share of sensible communication, ashamedly my wife does, but I'm glad she does. Although we learnt to communicate several years ago (through councelling) it's still generally my wife who starts the conversation. That's ok though because its the way we work together as a team in our marriage.

I reiterate, you are not a team if one of you is not pulling their weight and is happy the other is carrying the them.

I was also willing to give you the benefit of the doubt re the mansplaining but you've just hung yourself with the hoping to encourage debate and support comment.

I'm with Boobywash, as most of the relationship threads I read end up with people recommending Ltb.

Really must both parties contribute equally not just overall but in each specific are, eg, communication? I must have been getting it wrong all these years letting my dh do the lion's share of car maintenance, obviously we are not a team after all.

OP admits he finds communication hard and is grateful his dw picks up the slack there. Presumably there are other areas where he makes a greater contribution to the relationship. If not, she is always free to ltb obv.

No, because communication is a type of work of it's own and is also the foundation of a relationship so more important than other types of work IMO.

Working as a team might be dividing up one type of work based on skills or preferences e.g. One person always does all the washing because the other hates it, but it should be balanced by the other person doing equivalent work so that overall both people have an equal share of 'jobs that must be done'.

If one person is not communicating and relying on the other that's fundamentally important because it makes the relationship be founded on inequality. It can mean the non-communicator feels as though they are not heard and the communicator feels as though they are solely responsible for the emotional work of the relationship.

This is the very reason why most relationship problems come back to a communication problem in the end. Being equally responsible for communication is essential for an equal relationship. It isn't good enough to say my wife does all the talking but I do all the DIY because the whole relationship is founded on communication, it isn't founded on DIY...

How do you express you needs, preferences etc and be an active participant in a relationship if you don't communicate or don't communicate equally?

Your partner has to spend time working out those things and accommodating them is the answer, and that can get extremely wearing because there isn't any real reason why an adult should be let off taking responsibility for themselves or allowed to be a passenger in their own lives.

More broadly I think where jobs are allocated completely to one person I do think there's a danger of resentment building where people aren't sexist and don't see work as gendered because it can get boring always doing the same job, it should be reviewed, the other person should be able to help or take over.

I can see that for some men it would cause them to feel emasculated to allow a woman to share 'man's jobs' like taking out the bins, mowing the lawn and fixing the car and perhaps for him to be expected to take responsibility for women's work' (rather than doing it to 'help out') like child care and housework but these are people who have rigid and sexist beliefs about work being gendered so although they may feel comfortable gendering their work they aren't particularly healthy relationships.

Are you saying that everyone is equally good/bad at communicating? Because if not, I don't see how you can say everyone must contribute equally to communication. Forget gender. Some people just find it harder than others to communicate. As long as they are doing their best, imo it is acceptable for the better communicator to communicate, well, better.

OP did not say he didn't communicate - he said he had thought he was a good communicator, been found wanting, had improved through counselling (and, presumably, effort) and acknowledged that he still wasn't great at it. I just don't see this as a reason to drag him over the coals.

It's a shame that a minority of members have been dismissive and critical of my intentions. I've been neither in this conversation in fact I think quite the opposite, especially with regards to my understanding of how difficult it can be to leave a relationship.

It is with genuine regret that if feel I have to retort to these comments in general.

As I have stated before, this conversation was started to encourage debate about common themes here on the relationship board. The 'sensible' content may, in the future be re read and may offer some comfort and support.
I say may because now a minority have taken it upon themselves to ridicule and belittle me personally for creating the conversation it is unlikely that any one reading this in the future will gain anything useful from the replies.
One wonders why some members are on the relationships board if this is their attitude to a male point of view.

Serious question OP, have any members of the relationship board actually asked you for a male point of view on this topic?

Fwiw I actually feel that your thread has provided some really useful information for future readers.

Not sure if it's the type of "advice" you were wishing to dispense though

I find that in some relationships some men don't take kindly to not having their viewpoint entirely upheld by women and get quite Shirty and Huffy about it when their thoughts are not given due respect

What say you, Andy ?

Oh I love a bit of 'listen up ladies' ...tell you where a male point of view would be appreciated...on that thread about pubic hairstyles...

I think you've come in for a bit of hard time Andy, although I think a lot of it has been tongue-in-cheek a bit too. It can be difficult on a gender biased forum that is the complete opposite to the gender bias we all experience in RL so don't feel too hard done by!

Ipanema - Does it matter if anyone has asked? It's an Internet forum, it's kind of open to whatever the owners want. If it fits in with MN guidelines it's fine. Or am I mistaken?

Maybe the issue isn't the message Andy was giving, it was the way it was put across...

I'd like to hear more about not having your opinions respected, or your point of view respected merely because of your sex, tell us more about how that feels...

I'm saying everyone finds communicating with a long term partner difficult yes. I'm yet to meet anyone who finds it easy although people's abilities and confidence and sense of responsibility vary.

It is possible to improve your ability and confidence so what I am saying is instead of saying 'I'm a man so it is harder for me and I'll let my wife do it' it is appropriate to be thinking 'how can I improve my ability to communicate' otherwise what you are doing is using a male privilege derived from sexist social constructs to personally benefit you... Which is exploitative...

It is hardly 'dragging him over the coals' to suggest that his relationship might be put at risk by his attitude towards communication being largely his wife's responsibility!

This thread isn't about MY communications skills.
It's about communications skills in general and about understanding from eachother why it's so hard to leave a bad relationship.

It has been derailed though so not helping anyone, and that's the shame.

My communication skills with my wife are fine by the way and I have probably given out the wrong impression.
My wife and I learnt to communicate better with each other some time ago, though councelling.
It took hard work, guts and patience from both of us to learn to be better at thise important skill.
When I say my wife does the 'lion share' I really mean that she encourages it.
"What do you think about x"
"How do you feel about y"
"Why did you do z"
Those that don't communicate will find the answer to these question are;
"I don't know why, what I feel, whay I did"
Instead of that I have learnt to converse honestly I now tell her what i think about, how I feel about, why I did.

In essence, sometimes she starts the conversation.

I'm pretty sure a lot of this thread is about your communication skills, Andy. (something is only funny IF the audience laugh, comes to mind, no matter how 'funny' the comic thinks it is.)

Without wishing to be too unkind, the vast majority of your OP was simply platitudinous, and then you went into 'hurt, misunderstood victim ' mode when your personal lessons-in-life message was questioned, as if you have no resilience for absorbing challenge and appreciating the critique. Which, unconsciously, you've drawn attention to as a barrier to communication which you suffer from.

I'd wander off for a bit and check the proportion of OP titles in this section commence with a question mark, or it's heavily implied. And reflect on 'mansplaining' (mis-used round here quite a lot, I think, but accurate here.)

I was happier alone than with the cheating, lying, bitch.

It is with genuine regret that..."
"It has been derailed though so not helping anyone, and that's the shame."

Not only misogynist abuse of his former wife, but pompous, deputy-headmaster, hand-on-hip finger-wagging at us stupid women who are too thick to understand what he is so helpfully setting forth for us, too. Winning combination!

Arf at Logg1e's "I'd like to hear more about not having your opinions respected, or your point of view respected merely because of your sex, tell us more about how that feels..."