Need help with dd and dh really need to change this

[Ledkr]

Ok so dd is 12. I've been with my dh since she was 5 prior to that I was a LP to her and her much older brothers after my xh left me when she was 8months.
Her dad was pretty inconsistent with contact until I put my foot down and he now sees her every Sunday for a half hearted half a day along with his family of dp and two nearly three girls.
She looks forward to seeing them and I am very positive about it all.

She has really never been nice to dh.
He is an amazing step father. Comes for a. Loving close family and has really put time and effort into dd.

She rejects any attempts of kindness or conversation and is what I describe as "scathing and dismissive" it's as if he makes her cringe and she appears to hate him.

Despite this he has continued to be steadfast in her life.

He always makes an attempt to chat to her and ask her about her day etc.Hes the one who will be in the sea mucking about while I'm sunbathing on holiday.

He helps her with her homework even if she's being rude to him all the way through.

We have a little girl of 3 and as was delighted when she was born and adores her.

Dh was very careful not to leave dd1 out and went out of his way to make her feel included.
After she was born and dh and dd went home he even made a little bed up in our room so that dd1 could sleep up with him as it was late and obviously it had been a long exciting day.

It pains me to watch how she treats him.

My sons and my mum have all spoken to her about it.
I have stay her down countless times and spoken about it, all she says is "he winds me up" or "I'll try to be nicer"

Personally I think dh is too soft with her and that is why she has no respect for him.

As time goes by I can see this is affecting the whole family.

Last night for the first time he and I rowed about it.

She was off school with a headache but he had let her have her I pad all day (which I wouldn't have) and told her that I'd be back form work at 6 and she'd probably have to turn it off then wtf?

Later she kicked him while we were all sitting on the sofa (I have no idea why, it was weird) so he challenged her on it and she was cocky.

So I turned off the tv and told her to go to bed (it was nearly bedtime) she started with the crying and saying no but I just repeated to go to bed and went into the kitchen.

I could hear dh saying "go to bed, come on you've been told" which did sound quite goady which just made her worse and after she'd gone up I said to him that I thought he was winding her up (although I can see why)

So he got really angry and shouted at me, this is literally the first time in 7 yrs I've seen him lose his temper.
Dd would of heard this as she was above us in her room.

He apologised later but I now feel we have reached the point that we need to seriously tackle this.

Any suggestions would be welcomed, I'm desperate.

She is just being a badly behaved and stroppy pre-teen. This could happen whatever the family circumstances. I agree with a united front for grown ups and he should stop bending over backwards to be nice to her because it's not working.

No suggestions but I just wanted to tell you this...

My FIL was a widower and started seeing the woman next door. She had a 2 year old DD. Soon they began a proper relationship and the DD saw her own DF every other weekend as he moved away. So FIL became a very hand-on SF and then he married his DP.

As she grew older, the DD began to treat FIL exactly like your DD is treating your DH but unfortunately the DM would often take the girl's side. DH and my SIL couldn't believe how FIL allowed himself to be treated by her, they would never have been allowed to speak to him the way she did, when they were young!!

As time went on it got worse and worse.

Finally, this year, FIL and SMIL have split up and he's in the process of moving into his own place. The DD is very smug about the fact that over many years, she destroyed their marriage.

She's now 24 and FIL is a broken man.

Don't let this happen to you...

Goodness me, thanks for all the advice but I'm a bit shocked at some of the hints at in appropriateness.

Let me explain. We live in a biggish house where our bedroom is in the attic and the other three on the floor below.
The day I had dd was quite stressfull as she was born with a previously us diagnosed cleft palate and we were all pretty emotional.
He and dd were very close at the hospital as I'd had a section and they were jointly caring for the baby and laughing about being weed on etc when they changed the nappy.
They left the hospital at 9.30 and dd cried not to go to my mums as planned but wanted to go home with dh and get fish and chips.
After they had eaten they were going to bed but dd asked to sleep with him as she was scared.
He thought that was a bit inappropriate so made the little bed up on the floor in our room so she didn't feel alone.
I'm not sure why that is odd?
I am also a cp social worker and dh is a policeman in the child protection dept. so I am seriously not worried about that.

So having cleared that up, thanks for the advice. You are all right that it's terrible for him and that her behaviour is totally unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated any more than any other bad behaviour or rudeness to anyone.
I didn't explain last night very well but he was being goady, his tone was childish and kind of na na an iykwim, he did say last night he was winding her up. I can understand why he'd come to do that though.

I did react to the kicking by turning. Off the tv and sending her to bed, she was being dramatic if so I though I'd just leave her to it rather than get into the whole argument, I knew she'd go up when she realised she was being left alone.

sparkly I feel sorry for her too! I have thought about splitting up just to make her happy but it's obviously not that simple! we are married! have a child together, he is very active in my older boys lives, very supportive, he is being tested as a possible d
Kidney donor for ds2' we have a life together and love each other, should I just let her end that.

Obviously when we first got together I didn't see any of this at first but when it materialised I think we both thought it would end eventually.

I think there is some truth in her projecting how she feels about her father, he has two more dds who he spends lo ads of time with and she gets a few hours. She did say to me once that she was scared that dh (her sf) would leave.

I do talk to her a lot but I can't seem to get to the bottom of it at all.

I am thinking of taking her I pad indefinitely and suggesting she has it back when she can start to be respectful to everyone in the house, and make dh the person who decides to give it back or is that wrong?
I'm really stuck here.

Sorry op but I remember a lot of your other posts and you have failed to mention that actually rather than being "close and loving"-your dh's family have been massive pains in the arse and have form for treating both you and your dd as 2nd class citizens-no?

You cannot force your dd to love or even like your dh-just because you think he is a nice man does not mean that she has too to agree. She did not get a choice in whom you married.

12 is a tricky age anyway-my eldest dc is 11 and really pissing me off at the moment! I would explain to your dd that rudeness will not be tolerated but I would not try and force a relationship with him on her.

Yes that's true about the pil but she's not really aware of that, they always treat her the same as everyone else, they are pushy and over involved, out staying their welcome rather than openly nasty to anyone.

I don't think she needs to love someone to be civil to them. She should do that anyway.

I just wanted a bit of advice about how to deal with it but as is the case on here lately people make huge assumptions from just a few paragraphs, we are just normal people trying to get along, there's no abuse or hidden agendas here, we are just pissed off.

Who said anything about abuse?

As regards the making up of the bed, the way it was written implied that it was his idea, and as she doesn't like him, it didn't seem fair. However, it does make a difference if it was her idea.

When you ask her why she doesn't like him, what does she say?

Stupid phone!
Ledkr you have such a lovely family. Your H is a very patient man and he probably does represent to your dd what she wishes her DF was. She's also full of hormones and friendships at school are so intense that she's taking it out on the person she knows she can. Your dh

It's probably a good idea to change strategy with him, just because she's a teen and likely to get worse.

OP it's a shame you felt the need to explain him making a bed for her after am exciting day. That is lovely and I'm assuming she picks and chooses times when she is nice to him and when she is not - I doubt she unwillingly shared a room with him Jesus!

Any who. When I was 7-8 my father was in a long term relationship from when I was four. I never liked her, she was never mean or anything but I was deliberately rude at this age and looking back I am horrified at my behaviour but I just could not explain my feelings. She just wasn't my mum and I felt uncomfortable when she tried to be 'mumsy' even though she was a massive part of my childhood. I couldn't explain my feelings, as I was so young. I think you should go to family counselling. As she gets older I am sure this problem will subside a bit. Have you spoken to you exp about whether or not he makes any remarks about your DH.

That may be a difficult or impossible subject to bring up with your exp but worth a thought as lovely as my mother would she would always make comments and so would other family members abouts dads partner which definitely influenced my feelings towards her. I felt I was breaking loyalty to my mum if I was nice to her, maybe your DD is feeling the same.

I'm afraid I can't offer anything other than experience and the advice of counselling.

Your DH sounds absolutely wonderful by the way.

sorry OP I tried to be very careful to make sure you knew I wasn't trying to imply abuse! Now you've explained the bed thing it doesn't sound odd at all, makes the world of difference that your DD asked to do that. It also suggests that 3 years ago there was a closeness between them so is this a new thing? Could it possibly be related to the new baby coming along at all?

Thanks red I also thought it was nice and she appreciated it to! I remember her telling me when they came to visit the next day.
I didn't explain it well enough probably.
I think you are right about her feeling disloyal to her dad, we have repeatedly told her that it's not the case and her dad likes dh and they always have a chat when they see each other, they recently all played paintball for my ds birthday, we have been very careful to be amicable.
Recently she found out that ex gf is having another baby and when she told me was very cruel, asked why I wasn't more excited then said I was jealous before I could even answer.
Exh has even talked to her about being horrible to dh and told her it's not acceptable.
I might get some therapy actually be as I feel it would be a shame if it didn't improve.
I have a high risk of cancer and although I've had preventative surgery I have had to face the possibility of getting it.
When we did our will I asked dd who she would like to live with if anything happened to me and she said her step dad, which I found really surprising.
For that reason alone it would be nice if they could find a way to get along better.

I really don't think there's any point in asking her dad if she's said anything in this case, he doesn't sound likely to play ball in any way.

A therapist would be better, and probably an individual one to start with or dd & OP.

My guess would be that she may be feeling pushed out by her own dad who (as she may see it) left her and then replaced her. So she pushes at your DH to test him, which means she does care about him deep down. Does that seem feasible to you?

Did he say why he let her have the iPad, it sounds as though he was being soft on her and knew he was, hence the comment about her having to come off it when you got home.

My approach wouldn't be to ask why she is mean to him, but for him to sanction her for doing it, rinse and repeat. She needs to know from him that she can't get away with it. She probably doesn't know why she does it.

It's hard to explain, sometimes they seem fine and have laugh and stuff and she certainly seems to trust him. She doesn't let him hug her but he is very good at showing affection in other ways but it's always rejected.
At night she very pointedly says "I love you" to me and he always answers "ah thanks, love you too!" As a joke and she always laughs.
It's not all doom and gloom.
You are all right of course, it should be treated as any other rudeness would. It's so hard when it's constant and in your home though.
Any ideas for actual sanctions?

Her accusing you of being jealous about the new baby is projective identification, no? I reckon that's how she's feeling and that's how she verbalised it.

I think she is jealous that he is such a good father and that he isn't her real father.

Her attitude and behaviour can definitely be controlled by you guys as her parents. No doubt about it.

She is cutting her nose off to spite her face.

Sounds awful saying these things about a child but I do believe the above to be true.

Send her to bed 30 mins early

Ban the iPad.

Remove her phone.

Ground her

No tv

No sweets

I would think your ex having another baby is something to do with it Ledkr, your dd probably doesn't know why she's feeling emotional about it. It's so hard at that age to verbalise feelings

Yes that does make sense Johnny that's how it does seem.
It's interesting when you consider she may not even know why she's doing it.

I think it is significant that she would choose to live with him.

I have had an extremely challenging year with my DS (6) since his dad had to leave. He has raged and attacked me and been verbally horrendous at times. CAMHS have been clear with me that this is a good thing as it means he believes totally in his safety with me (as opposed to exP who was abusive). Although it is a back-handed compliment, if she feels confident to be rude and unpleasant it may just mean she trusts her SD in a way she is unable to trust her dad? But this is conflicting as she'd rather she could rage at dad? (I may well be projecting my own complex family stuff here mind...)

I agree, total zero-tolerance of disrespect via a united front, and your DP cannot be soft in an effort to be liked and neither should he be goady. But consistent message of being loved too.

Perhaps she is very secure in her step dads love for her it is safe to project all of her anger at him rather than her bio dad?

We think it is that random yes.
The bloody school have just rung, she spoke to her head of house and told him the story and said she had caused us to row. So now I feel like my dirty washing has been aired in public and I had to discuss my private life and "her step dad" with some whippersnapper

Good that she's talking to someone though. She's never been able to get you two to row before, so that's a positive I would say

She spoke to my friend and said that she is horrible to dh because he is not her Dad and she misses her Dad as they were close.

This is probably a fantasy or something her dad has said to her.
She was 8 months when I found out he was seeing ow and it had been going on for at least 6months so being close to her was really not a true memory.

As well as knowing that rudeness will not be tolerated She needs to find / needs help finding a way to express her anger that is not directing it at her stepdad. There are good books about different ways for children to express anger maybe you can read them together and practise?