Are they always abusive?

[2013go]

I'm nearly out of the woods from an emotionally abusive relationship which really took me inside out.
One question I still haven't resolved is- are these people always abusive?
If not, that would imply it was me/ the circumstances.
I'm still feeling a huge loss of confidence in myself and this is a doubt I return to.
I know that he cheats, but presumably that alone is not abusive.
Mainly I feel great relief it's gone but also a void, and a lot of confidence loss that is coming out in funny ways I didn't expect.
Because EA is so subtle sometimes it is almost like you doubt your reality/ have imagined how bad it was.
Anyway, was it me or do they behave like this with everyone? Or has he run off as his best self with a new partner?

Welldone FolkGirl for moving on. I had a very horrible EA ex boyfriend and to use a phrase I heard on good old MN he was waving more red flags than a communist party demonstration.
I know the signs now, I would definitely second Hissys suggestion of Freedom program. Its like a light bulb being switched on. I am almost 'waiting' to be picked by an EA so that I can use my inner bullshit detector. Actually I should say I'm not, I would never want to go through anything that harming and potentially dangerous again just in case anyone thinks I am making light of it. It was a horrible time and I cannot believe how I was sucked in by someone so vile.

Good to hear you did the online version, but i'd still recommend going back and doing the offline course, so that you can see the other women.

My experience of meeting other fellow sufferers of domestic abuse is that I have liked pretty much all of them.

Often we're targeted for our strength, our spirit, popularity and sheer brilliance.

It's what our abusers covet and what they seek to absorb or suck out of us.

hissy yes!! I'm sick of being called a bloody codependent and far prefer strong and spirited!
wyrdy I think psychopathic or disordered but def not 'the sergeant major' or any of those. Just a person to whom different laws applied- incoherent, with a lack of internal logic. I guess one person can't bring tht out in another, it must be a pre existing thing.

I'm planning on getting my teenage son to read it when I've finished. Particularly the chapter at the end on how abusers are made.

I think the only thing that I'm a little apprehensive about is him recognising his dad in some of it.

Especially the bit about the dad storming out leaving everyone shellshocked and coming back a couple of hours later nice as pie, when the woman is still reeling and the kids assuming that mum is the grumpy one and, therefore, the problem.

My exH used to do that a lot.

Yes, always. Though they will probably blame the woman, for example crocodile tears about hating themselves and anger at the woman for making them do it.

There are many characteristics that draw abusers to their prey but its not all down to being weak and vulnerable. Sometimes they like a challenge and seek out a strong confident woman so they can break her. When I met my ex I was 'on fire' in a very good place emotionally financially and career wise. By the time he had finished with me it was very much the opposite.

Oy! Where did I say weak?

Weak people are NOT targeted by abusers!

They target emotionally vulnerable people, yes, but ones that want to be accepted/loved/needed. Often these people have come from dysfunctional relationships with their families, where they've been told they're not good enough, they're this, they're that.

They are taught in life somehow that they are unlovable, so have to 'take whatever they can get' in terms of relationships.

Or they've witnessed a bad DV relationship growing up and think that's what life is supposed to be like.

Think about it before you use the word weak.

Think about the sheer brute strength it takes to live life in fear of another irrational human being, second and triple guessing every word, thought, nuance in case they fall foul of whatever heinous new crime their abuser's come up with this time.

Abusers take outwardly strong, confident, popular people and strip them of all that for themselves.

When it's gone, they turn the full force of resentment and hatred they feel for themselves onto their victims.

I think there are combinations of people who bring out the worst in each but still I think that an abuser creates an imbalance of power and they will do that with every relationship. I remember driving down the road one day past a couple taking their wedding photographs in a ruin. I realised that the groom was my best friend's ex who had attempted to strangle her and hit her more than once. All I could think of was how that poor bride would not be smiling for long. there was no way that leopard would be changing his spots

Yes, I'm sure others have said this but there is an extremely subtle subtext whereby you end up thinking 'It's me, I made him act like this, another person would not have made him do this.' Undermining, control, gaslighting.

You're asking the question because you think it might be your fault. It isn't.

"Often we're targeted for our strength, our spirit, popularity and sheer brilliance."

Never a truer word said.

Never a truer word said Hissy

Yy to them being the same in every relationship they have.

I had a physically and mentally abusive relationship with an ex, charm personified at the beginning, and by the end of it I was a shadow of my former self.

And after the relationship ended, one of his friends cheerfully (!) told me he (my ex) pushed one of his ex girlfriends downstairs, even though he knew she was carrying his twins. She subsequently miscarried.

Yes to strong and spirited! Some of the women I know who've been targeted are exactly that; one of them an experienced professional woman, the others younger but take-no-nonsense-from-anybody types.

However, one I know was vulnerable at the time, for reasons I won't go into. Another was (is) quiet and sweet, and vulnerable in the way Hissy has described so well, and very probably for the reasons she states.

Afriend, that's terrible. Poor woman.

wyrdybird - Funnily enough, it was only a few weeks ago that I met that same ex in a work setting. I only knew it was her, because her name is distinctive. I felt like putting my arms around her, I really did. Even though I was with him over 23 years ago, and her time with him was before mine.

The ex is dead. Best place for him.

But.....on a good note, Clare's Law has been passed now, so women can find out if their partner was abusive to women previously

Just one last thing: Hissy described me: emotionally vulnerable, a need to be loved/accepted.

I knew it wasn't my fault, though. I knew I wasn't the 'bad' person. That kept me going through the worst times.

If only we knew how this type of person spots the signs and targets us, we would be able to see the red flags, and walk away.

Yes they are, my cock of an exp was abusive before me (I found out too late) and after me, in fact I was far better off than the one who came after me and she was only with him for a few months.

He's married again, from what I can see on Facebook, we're friends I'm not stalking, he's blissfully happy and has changed. I hope he has but I'm not convinced.

Sorry hissy I didn't think you did say weak! At all. I was just offering up my own experiences where it had been implied that I was weak and stupid and learned with hindsight that it really wasn't me at all. Thanks to freedom programme which is why I seconded your suggestion.
I have spent too long in abusive relationships. The first was very subtle and left me questioning was it abuse. The second was horrific and left me in no doubt.
Apologies if I inadvertently offended anyone. I didn't mean to

2013go, I think your question has been answered

I don't think you did offend anybody juniper, don't worry

sorry. jupiter, not juniper. Oh dear

Yes afriend and it's a relief!
While I think Claire's Law is a very welcome step forward what still concerns me is that it doesn't, I suppose it just can't, go far enough- still limitations in policing, in funding for assistance etc.
Say in the case of an emotional abuser who is frightening but never violent, that kind of manipulation and boundary play- it's so nebulous, you can barely put your finger on it at first and it's not a 'crime' in the legal sense- I don't know what the answer is for that.

2013go- I get what your saying, sorry, I should have said Clare's Law would go some way towards the safety of women, not be the solution, and I get also the type of bullying you describe, the one that falls below the radar, the one nobody sees because its not 'obvious'.

Harder to spot.

Not up to date on what they teach at schools now, (I'm 48), but if they don't already, then maybe they could provide lessons as part if the curriculum, in distilling confidence in women/men, spotting early signs of an abusive partner in both sexes. But like I said, I'm not up to date.

It could help pupils also deal with emotional/physical violence at home.

Something I could have done with, along with many others.

No probs jupiter, we may feel weak, but that's cos we're told we aren't good enough.

Joke is that to survive relationships and better to get out of relationships like these, it takes herculean strength.

When we get out we feel raw, frightened, traumatised. We feel all sorts of bloody awful emotions, some against ourselves to begin with.

When I got out I felt crushingly stupid. I felt as if I were a fraud being on mumsnet posting in relationships, as Wtf did I know.

I couldn't talk to a soul. Hell, I had to call WA just for the support to be able to call and book myself on the freedom programme.

I may have felt weak then, but I know the effort that took.

Even 3yrs on. It's still potent.

Clare's Law is one more thing that might help someone make the choice to end a relationship that might end their life.

If only one person's saved, that law's worth it.

I do see attitudes shifting towards greater compassion and understanding of the plight of the abused.

Still not perfect, but the will is there.