DH and I having a terrible argument over euthanasia

[Hedgehead]

A very elderly relative of mine (my family) has been in a minimally conscious coma now for a couple of weeks. She is still breathing alone, but cannot do anything else. Consultant has told us there is 99.999% no coming back from this point and has given us a range of (heavy inverted commas) "treatment" options. Eg, withdrawing feeding and having her "feed herself," an 8 hour operation with a strong GA that she has 95% chance of not waking up from etc... you get the drift.

My family have all been very upset and torn over the decision of which "treatment" course to take and it's not something we've entered into lightly. I was very close to her and have been going frequently with DH to sit by her bedside in hospital.

We reached a unanimous family decision last week to withdraw feeding (not fluids), increase pain relief and allow her the death she wanted (she made it very clear if she was ever in this position she would want to die as quickly as possible.)

But guess who is not happy? DH. Out of nowhere. He has started picking fights about it, challenging me about the decision, accusing me of not caring for her, of wanting to "get her death over with" so I can get on with my "busy schedule." He has told me he finds my attitude "disturbing."

I have reminded him that as supportive and wonderful as he has been to my entire family, it is not his decision to make or judge once it is made. I told him that it was not about 'him,' that it is his job to play a supportive role in this, and when it is his parents or elderly relatives are dying, I will go along with whatever they want and be supportive.

He's just stormed out. I am first of all devastated that this is happening to my relative and now that's compounded by my DH's attitude to me and his accusations which make me out to be a monster. AIBU?

it's difficult for everybody.
No one is right, no one is wrong.
he feels what he feels.
Be kind to each other x

wannaBe- sorry but this relative is NINETY FIVE . We all have to die of something- and to be without pain, unaware, surrounded by a loving grieving family at the end of a long life sounds about the best it can get. Sometimes we have to accept that people aren't going to recover, and give them dignity- instead of imposing our own fears on them.

Has your DH much experience of death, OP? If he hasn't experience it in near family at all or not much before, he may not know how to react. I think you need to talk to him about it more, there is something he is worrying about.

Regarding going on holiday, I don't think you are callous at all. My mum and I went on holiday to Rome two weeks after my maternal grandmother died and to Paris five weeks after my father died. The holidays were already booked before they died, the funerals and all the stuff around them were over and what was the point in not going? What was the point in sitting around at home looking miserable? It wasn't going to bring them back.

I'm so sorry for your family OP. Been in a similar situation with 2 of my grandparents and having to come to a decision with my family about the best course of action when things get to this point. There's never an ideal outcome really- just one solution might be slightly less shitty than others. it sounds very much like the treatment decided upon for my beloved gran.

I believe you are right- your DH's role should be to be supportive of you right now, for you to be supportive of each other, not to attack you. There is nothing disturbing about the treatment you as a family have chosen. It sounds like he's lashing out I suppose he's upset by it, who wouldn't be? however you shouldn't be his emotional punching bag right now, you're going through a horrible, sad time yourself, more so in fact.

as for your holiday, well that would probably do you the world of good of you do get to go. my aunt went on a month long holiday within a week of my gran's funeral. was best thing for her at the time. don't let your DH make you feel bad for that.

Your DH sadly, sounds like the sort of pompus arse who likes to take the moral high ground to feel 'better' than you, so you are in the wrong, but he wouldn't do that with the extended family because he's judged correctly they would shout him down and make him clearly in the wrong. Which he is.

OP - if it was me, I'd look him in the eye and ask him what he thinks you should do, does he really think that keeping a 95 year old with no hope of recovery alive as long as possible is better than letting her go peacefully? Does he realy think that's the best thing for her or for him ? Tell him you don't want to cancel the holiday now, if closer to it, you aren't able to go, then you'll cancel and hopefully the insurance company will pay out, if you are able to go but he seems to not want to go, that's fine, you'll go without him and he can make the big show of being "the only one to care" about Great Aunty XXX.

Then tell him if h ewants to start supporting you in losing your relative, you're like that, if he can't bring himself to be a good husband, he can fuck off elsewhere.

He's not got the moral high ground, he's being horrible to his wife who's going through a hard time. This is when you should be able to rely on him. Really crap you can't.

Just quickly, I wanted to say that DH probably needs to be treated with much more compassion rather than being told to shut up. Particularly if this is the first close bereavement he's had to face - we can't really understand it until it's happened, and the urge to 'stop it happening' can be intense. It sounds like he needs more gentle understanding of this, and even more talking through it.

I think you're doing the right thing, fwiw. If anything like it happens to me, I want to be shot full of diamorphine and allowed to fizzle out in a daze. The 'operation' might be easier to bear, actually, but I'd be concerned about the effects on the surgical team and using up resources.

What poosible motive could the H have for not agreeing to what the OP has decided? It's clear that he is upset and saddened and doesn't feel this is the right decision. It is however, nothing to do with him and he should not be getting involved.

oh and I'd be asking him when does he deem to be an acceptable length of time after a death of an elderly relative to go on holiday? Honestly, whatever his reasons, he's not being kind, supportive, or even has the moral high ground, he's being an arse to his wife, the wife who's relative it is. He needs pulling up on this, if he's having a panic because he's realised everyone dies at some point, that's an explaination, but it's not bloody excuse - taking this out on you is unacceptable.

For Brian - see how LCP has been reviewed and abolished.

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jul/15/liverpool-care-pathway-independent-review

BUT - please don't imagine that your relative was subjected to the worst of practice. In no way did i intend to cause you any pain. You appear to have been aware of the attention your relative received at the end and are satisfied that it was the 'gentle slipping away' rather than the misinterpretation of LCP and mal-practice that the independent review found in several areas of the country.

I agree that the moral high ground is certainly not his. In fact IMO he has some very questionable morals to be singling one member in a family decision to harangue and judge over a hugely painful and personal matter. My dh disagrees with organ donation but knows full well my wishes when I pass regarding this. We have even made some decisions regarding our children in this matter. If I were to die tomorrow, he would allow any available organs to be donated. His family will be disgusted and it will be hard for him. If his family were to judge and crow at him for it they would be horrible cruel people- that's what your dh is doing. my point is when a relative is dying or dies we do what they would have chosen, not what we would choose for ourselves.

If he wanted in on the family decision he should have piped up there and then, not pick on you singularly later. If he didn't agree with the decision and was too cowardly to put his hand in, then out of care and respect for you he should have kept shtum.

Go on the holiday- what is to be gained from wallowing at home? What's more a peaceful relaxing atmosphere is just right for reflection on loved ones lost and futures to be found.

the option for the OP's elderly relative is NOT anything to do with the Liverpool Care Pathway. That was about medics removing food, water and treatment from elderly patients who had no chance of recovery.

Some of them did recover, though, when their relatives gave them fluids and food.

How can someone disagree with organ donation?? Or is it a religious thing like JW's?

OP the one person you should be able to rely on for moral support is acting like an idiot. I don't really have any advice except I do agree with others that this must be rooted in fear of his own mortality....

for your relative.

It sounds to me as if your DP is scared. Either he has lost someone himself and wishes they were still alive( and would do anything to still have them here,) or perhaps he fears that if this were him you could agree to him being denied food so easily. I know it isn't easy, by the way. Or maybe this is his first experience of being so close to someone who is dying? It certainly says more about him than you.

I watched my mum die recently. She stopped eating and eventually drinking, herself, but conversely she fought death all the way. It was the most horrendous thing I have ever witnessed and I would have given anything for a kindly medic to put her out of her misery ( 13 days without fluids does things to a body that you can't imagine.)

I would wish for a swift end, for myself and my loved ones, because "lingering" is dreadful. I'm not sure how you can resolve the difference of opinion with your DP, but take heart in the belief that you are doing the right thing for your relative. I wish you, and them, peace.

Oh, what a painful experience Trout

I am so sorry for all in this situation.

fortunately (if anything is fortunate) the OP knows that the old lady does not want to hang on, suffering, with no hope. We don't let animals suffer like this but we happily do it to people. I had an elderly relative with terminal cancer who told me what was coming to him in the way of symptoms- I am glad, yes glad, that he did not last that long.

Your husband's attitude strikes me as very childish, just when you would hope for his support. We all die and part of being grown-up is accepting that. Let's hope he can see this soon.

Yes theres probably some truth in that article sad widow. We certainly had to fight all the way to get things as we wanted. They withdrew food and liquid several times without telling us, we insisted they reinstated it immediately. Although at that stage he wasn't even on the lcp and we were still thinking he would recover. I think hospitals do have a poor interpretation of it sometimes, ours didn't even ask for consent / agreement with the family, just sneakily tried to withdraw food and drink. That practice isn't lcp though as it was intended, but it was a common theme on my dads ward. It felt more of an attempted cul on the older people who they deemed unlikely to recover, in an attempt to free up beds. Lcp in the right context can be a good thing. Although i'm not sure if they have actually got rid of it, just changed the name of it? So I'm not sure how much things will change.
None of this is relevent in the ops case anyway as her relative is clearly very ill. And the hospital are clearly demonstrating good practice by discussing the options with her. Sorry for hijacking op, hope you manage to work things out.

I am sorry about your relative's illness .

It definitely seems like your DH has something on his mind and he can't just speak to you about it so is lashing out a bit about what has been decided.

Brian, the new practice is to move to an 'individual care plan'.

I was strong enough and physically well enough to care for my late husband at home until his very last breath. We did discuss what he wanted when he was diagnosed terminally ill with just 2-4 weeks to live - he just wanted to slip away gently. When he was unable to eat, I knew I had to find ways to keep him hydrated so that he would not suffer unduly.

A gentle death is all the OP wants for her elderly relative. And all you wanted for your relative.

I hope that the OP and her DH can somehow find common ground now because they will need to lean on each other when the elderly relative has passed. Grieving is a dreadful, debilitating emotion and they will need each other to get through the loss.