Ils move - DH reaction

[JohnFarleysRuskin]

Ils are moving approx 5 hrs drive away. (now 20 mins away) sil found job there so they are going to help her dc and they like the countryside.
They told me while DH was away last week. They have been looking for a biggish house with coach house/studio/cottage nice garden. They will be in bigger house, sil in little house. They are trying to sell their place and sil is trying to sell hers. Its all rush, rush coz of job/scholols etc. Me, DH kids always welcome etc.
I was shocked but said ah ok nice.
DH is gutted - he says they didn't discuss it and basically the plan means indirectly disinheriting him in favour of his sis. He says his three kids have always come second to his sis dc, (i agree but don't think it's intentional)and this will make it worse. I told him this wkend and he hasn't been in touch with them.
I love ils but find them completely under sils thumb. (will provide humorous anecdotes if nec)
How can we er move forward?
1Suck it up,
2 'talk' - but how without coming across as um jealous or greedy?!
3 Dhs feeling, not speak to them ever again?
Other?

That's was really snide of them to tell you and let you break the news rather then them tell your DH themselves.

Had they not be so cowardly about it then they could have spoken to him and answered these questions

I really feel for you just have to try and support him best you can but this is awful

Personally I'd be very very suspicious of the need to rush all this

Your DH needs to say he's not happy about this or his silence could be viewed as he's not really bothered

I thought a letter followed by a meeting because then they will have time to think it through before we meet (and because I'm better/clearer on paper.) However, as has been pointed out, they probably won't see it like that so I think we will write points down and take it with us to have an orderly conversation. I know Mil will be defensive so it fills me with dread.

"It's like they know they are doing something that will hurt him and hope that by avoiding the subject they will get away with not discussing it." That is it Livingzuid.

The communication between us is poor and yet, you wouldn't know it from the outside...Its not until the bigger issues come up that you can see the dysfunction. The smaller issues we have always let go. I think we were wrong too.

They definitely should have told him themselves and its hard to understand why they didn't - they had opportunity to tell him but chose not to - Then I visited and asked what they had been up to, and they couldn't lie to my face, I guess, so they told me then - so I kind of understand how it happened the way it did but still...

Back to Cogito's analysis: 'the coper' has just as many problems as 'the struggler' but doesn't expect others to bail them out. I was unsure of this at first, because while DH IS a coper with problems, I don't see SIL as a 'struggler'...However, I was missing the part more relevant to us - which is that she totally, totally expects others/her parents to bail her out/facilitate her - to a ludicrous degree sometimes. Unfortunately for us, PIL always have and always will I guess.

Thank you for your comments. Its been great to mull this over on-line.

What does your husband want to do?

It seems from your OP that he's so hurt by their plan to move 5 hours away from him that he doesn't want to talk to them again.

I can fully see why he's so upset.

5 hours drive away is a long way, that's a massive distance to choose to put between yourself and one of your children.

Particularly when you are doing it to follow another one of your children.

The fact that they didn't even talk to him about this is really shocking on their part.

It probably seems to him (pretty accurately, it seems) that they have chosen his sister and her children above him and his.

That's got to really hurt.

I think you should talk to him some more about what he wants now.

It seems that this is an ongoing problem and a sense of grievance that has been growing for years.

If they have already made up their mind to move away from what is (presumably) their home, where their friends and social networks are, as well as their son and his family, to follow their daughter then he might be right that there's no point in talking to them.

Their cowardice in raising this suggests that they don't want to talk about it and that they won't welcome it being raised.

Maybe it would make sense for him to let them know how he perceives their choice to move and the likely impact it will have on what remains of their relationship with him.

But I would forget letters and reasoned arguments and sitting down and discussing. I would think if he's going to have this out with them, he should just go and do it. Tell them how upset he is and how much they have hurt him.

They are taking a massive risk in moving in this way to follow their daughter. They are giving up everything they know, all of their support network and making themselves completely dependent on their daughter.

I would say, forget about the money. It's almost certainly going to SIL whatever you say. Unfair, but if your DH refers to it he will detract from the key issue of emotional and practical favouritism and probably just be accused of having mercenary motives.

He should definitely talk to his parents about all the other stuff, including how they are going to facilitate a better and fairer relationship with your DC.

You have both got to be prepared for the PIL to refuse to see it, or claim to see it but not actually change anything.

I think if it's the case that they are simply avoiding confrontation with SIL, DH is a coper and has never asserted him in the past they think it's simply OK.

So consider how you approach them, offering them alternatives for a way out - an option that will enable them to justify a disagreement with SIL.

Getting them to see it in perspective would help, perhaps by asking them about their future, how will it be when SIL meets someone and wants to move in with them etc etc, or what about when dcs are teenagers and they need a bigger house, how will it work out in the event of death. Get them to put it in their own words. You never know perhaps it's actually all fine and there isn't a problem but you ought to know.

If MIL is defensive it might be better to speak to FIL alone, DP and he might be able to talk better alone, man to man?

We had terrible trouble with this, to summarise, DPs ended up trusting someone they knew and he told me he wanted to buy a house in their road, said we couldn't move in because it would cause problems if she died and we would have to move out. etc etc. He's off the scene now after he got involved in selecting her tenants and put me under pressure for refusing and I told him to butt the hell out. DB wasn't happy with it either but didn't actually do anything. It was painful and DB and I are still jostling for position. People are weird - you should expect anything to happen.

As the 'son of the family' your DH should have a bit more clout (sad but true) and perhaps a strictly business attitude would be beneficial, as I said, man to man. A meeting with the two of them and a solicitor might work.

Anyway, you are right to deal with this.

Its a tricky situation.

I do however think though that you cant envisage what is going to happen in the future with regards to inheritance.

Your IN laws may need to sell their house to pay for care.

Maybe your SIL isnt manipulative and is being punished by her jealous brother simply because she gets on better with them, maybe she just makes them happy. It happens and when people get to a certain age, they loose friends and feel lonely. They feel comfortable with her, and her dc's, and they want to be around her.

You yourself admit they are not great talkers.

Maybe your MIL just feels comfortable round her daughter.

You missed a golden opportunity when they told you in the first place. You should have said then, in the pleasant chat environment, :" you said DH will be upset, why do you think this is" then gently lead the conversation onto how he feels dsis is favoured, but without any dramatic stress inducing build up.

You could have also mentioned about your own dc missing out on their GP.

I would be very cautious raising the topic now, esp not by letter.

If they have not instigated any talk of wills I would think very carefully about bringing it up.

Also you say dsil is single by choice, but who really chooses to be a loan parent, I am sure she would much rather be with a partner who can love her and bring up the children with her.

Great post I'dRather

maybe she just makes them happy

But their son doesn't make them happy?

And he's supposed to not feel totally fucking devastated by that clear preference by people who are supposed to love him unconditionally?

I think if he doesn't feel he can tell his own parents that the way they are acting as though he and his family don't matter a shit, then he would be better off going NC.

Quite worrying that your ILs are rushing into a big move and change in financial arrangements based on a job your SIL hasn't even started yet. It might not work out, then what? Perhaps your DH should gently suggest they rent out their place then rent somewhere in the area until they all (sil included) know they will be happy and able to settle there.

Surely your ILs have got the right to move wherever they want to?

Yes, they should have told your DH themselves but the fact is they have every right to move where their DD is going or emigrate to Australia if that's what they want to do.

My parents moved 6 hours away from all their grown up children - should we have felt offended .

Your SIL is a single parent, they are moving to be near her and to help her; any complaints about inheritance/favouritsm etc are just going to look incredibly petty and needy.

I think your DH needs to let it go, wish them well and concentrate on you and his own children.

Well yes, I get that too.

Just offloaded to a psychologist friend while waiting at beavers. She thinks ils and sil co dependant and nothing we say will make a difference to their attitude. She thinks we should ask leading questions - what happens if sil job falls through, or she doesnt like it etc, etc, what about loneliness, driving etc, but to leave out the emotive stuff. She suggests I be more out-come focused - losing contact with gps who do love them, in their way, wont help my kids.

However, DH has now written heartfelt letter saying how he loves them and just can't understand why his kids are second class citizens etc, etc and it's time to clear the air.

We'll see. My first reaction was to rush a punitive response. now I think we'll just let em sweat a bit. (nb I don't know if they are sweating)

JoinYourPlayfellows

Maybe he doesn't make them as happy, when children get older and have their own personalities, people don't often get on. They are not cutting him out rather just moving.

I can see how this situation is very beneficial to them all round.

My own DH is pretty much ostracised, its obvious his parents get on with his sister more than him, they are all on the same page and my DH is not on their page thank sweet Jesus.

I would totally understand if my in laws went off with sil and wouldn't want to be closer to us, even if we got on better as we are simply not such a good fit.

She is single, has dc, they are willing to help, for them its a win win situation.

Op I am sure your DH isnt like this, but speaking from very personal experience I have a family member who is nigh on obsessed with inheritances, and money and how has more and so on. He projects all the time onto others who have very different values and brings nearly everyones motivation in life for anything down to manipulating others for ....money, when its simply not true.

I think the letter from him, just saying how he will miss them is a good idea but I pray he doesn't mention wills. Asking leading questions is the excellent idea.

It should be asking leading questions because you are genuinely concerned for them though, not because your worried about the inheritance being lost!

I think you should ask outcome-focused questions about inheritance.

"Surely your ILs have got the right to move wherever they want to?"

I think this situation is about feelings rather than any kind of legal challenge being made to their decision to follow their daughter around and make their son feel like they don't give a fuck about him.

Do you really love them?

Your poor DH. I know how he feels. But your psychologist friend is right, this is not going to change. His heartfelt letter might as well be an invitation for them to stab his heart one last time. It is just another opportunity for them to let him down.

There is a similar dynamic in my family. My older sister still lives with my parents and I fully expect her to be there till they die. She will then take the house. She's welcome to it.

The money isn't the issue. The issue is that she is their child, for whom they would (and do) do anything and I am not. I am someone they brought up. They like me but they don't love me, at least not the way a parent loves a child. They show concern at my problems but my hurt doesn't hurt them. When I was very severly depressed they helped when specifically asked, same as you would with a friend, but when it got to be too much of a hassle they backed off, again as you would with a (not very close) friend. Yet my mother was lamenting on the phone the other day about my sister's tinnitus - an incredibly irritating but hardly life threatening illness. She was clearly very upset and expected me to sympathise. And I felt jealous. It seems petty but it's not. Her reaction to my sister being ill is yet another reminder of the inequality in our relationships. To an outsider me being jealous must seem childish but to me the situation says something very profound - that my sister has a mother in the true sense of the word but I do not.

Oh and if I brought any of this up all they would see is this woman being stroppy about them doing the right thing for their child. My complaining would have the same effect as if a good but not close friend of yours started complaining that the way you deal with your dcs was affecting her. Your reaction would be "who does she think she is? It would be irritating and hard to understand.

For some reason my parents have no bond with me. And their actions reflect that. They are polite and welcoming and generous with money but all of that means nothing really as they don't love me. It's not because they're bad in any way but boy does it hurt all the same. I've had to learn to accept it. And I have (sort of).

I think that the sibling dynamic is so overlooked in families. It still plays out when we're adults, but we're expected to get over it. Most of the time we can, but it gets injected into this sort of situation. I really feel for the OP and her DH. It's a situation where you're caught whatever you do.

If I've understood the OP correctly, she means "disinherited" in a far wider sense than purely financial. Her DH feels pushed out of the family, so emotionally disinherited and unsupported: this is a decision that is making him feel like he and his children are 'second best' to his sister. Essentially, he feels rejected.

To put it another way: if this were one of those threads about a mother-in-law blatantly favouring one set of grandkids over another, the tenor of responses would be much more in the poster's favour. For some reason, though, money on Mumsnet is always considered in a much more hard-headed way than emotions: the message about finances is usually 'it's up to them', whereas if it's about a lack of emotional support, it's more 'oh what a shocking thing to happen to you, you poor love'. Yet money, practical support, and emotion are all interconnected in complex ways in family dynamics - you can't really separate one out from another.

OP, I think you need to discuss this with your DH, and just give him some room to vent and to be frustrated and angry. I bet the roots of his feelings go back decades, so there may be a lot to 'come out' - if so, counselling may be an option. He will be dealing with some difficult emotions - not least of which will be a disconnect between the very palpable hurt he is experiencing and a cultural sense that sibling rivalry is seen as silly in grown ups.

I do think that in the long term it's probably worth his while talking to his parents about this, but only when he can do so in a calm and controlled way. A simple, quiet statement of his feelings would do it - 'I understand that you want to move there - after all it's beautiful countryside - but I do feel a bit left out now. You will all be a unit together, and I feel a bit like we are second best'. At least it is then aired. However, I think this should only be said as and when he can do so without getting angry and precipitating an argument, which will do no good to anyone.

Oh dear.

Is your sil on her own with children? Is there no partner/husband/father of the children on the scene?

Excellent post, struggling - you've articulated my thoughts way better than I could.

Doh. Has DH seen this thread? I wish he would, because sending a heartfelt letter will just not work and could be seen as a way of manipulating them by the SIL. This is far more complicated than 'why don't you love me'.

In my opinion parents have a duty to smooth things over between siblings. You don't let inequalities arise by talking openly, negotiating conflicts and encouraging a healthy relationship between them.

A LOT of parents don't do this because it suits them not to for whatever reasons - usually because it gives them control - but it is a fairly selfish thing to do and your DH has to be very careful that this doesn't end up with a battle between him and his sister that has actually been started by their parents and is being encouraged by them.

What would work would be to address the issue impartially like others have suggested, what will you do when she meets someone else, what will you do in the holidays, what happens when you have a problem or need to move out.

Then at the same time, very slowly, work on SIL. Build up that relationship into one that is trusting. The two of you are going to be left after they have gone, your children are cousins. Set your relationship up now for the future and work as a team on the same side. The team is your wider family.