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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Abusive Relationship - advice please!

41 replies

lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 17:55

I'm a regular poster but have changed my name for this one in case the person concerned reads this.

A friend of mine (male) is in what I consider to be an abusive relationship with his girlfriend. They live together with gf's mother, gf's daughter (14) and ds (3). Both he and his gf work full-time and her mother looks after ds in the day. As soon as he gets home from work he takes over the care of ds for the rest of the evening. He is the main breadwinner and also takes responsibility for many of the household chores and paying the household bills/doing the shopping.

The problem is, his gf and her mother treat him like dirt. She constantly berates him, calling him "stupid" and "useless" and telling him to "f**k off - you're lucky I don't chuck you out". Things have been like this for several years and he has turned into a total doormat - he just puts up with it for a quiet life.

He's often talked to me about his situation, and, whilst I think his gf is trash and shouldn't treat him this way, I have pointed out to him that he isn't helping himself by constantly tolerating her abuse.

This morning he told me that he had attempted to talk to his gf and her mum about how this verbal abuse makes him feel (i.e. hurt) and their reaction was to laugh about it (!).

I think he's reaching the end of his tether now, but he is staying there for fear of losing contact with his ds. I've advised him to see a solicitor to find out what chance he would have of getting custody of the little boy (he reckons social services wouldn't be impressed with the overcrowding in the house - his step-daughter is sharing a bedroom with her grandmother and the rest of them are squeezed into a single bedroom, so he usually has to sleep on the sofa).

Now, I know it's none of my business really, but I'm interested in what you wise mumsnetters would advise someone in this situation. I care about him deeply and find it really distressing to watch him going through this.

OP posts:
sb34 · 11/03/2004 18:04

Message withdrawn

Original poster
lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 18:06

Thank you sb, that's EXACTLY what I thought (if it was the other way round etc etc). I was in tears this morning when he told me how they had howled with laughter when he told them he was upset at being told he is useless.

OP posts:
fio2 · 11/03/2004 18:08

I agree totally with sb34

fio2 · 11/03/2004 18:09

Do you think he sees it as abuse?

Original poster
lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 18:10

I suppose I might be better posting on Tom's site about this one - I just wonder how many dads in this situation do end up getting custody of their children. I'll definitely push him to see a solicitor. The trouble is he is very demoralised, so it's difficult to get him to take any action

OP posts:
Freckle · 11/03/2004 18:10

With regard to care of the child, the court's would look at what is in the best interests of the child. You say that the g/mother looks after the child during the day. If your friend were to seek "custody" of the child, what arrangements could he make for its care during the day? It's a terrible thing to say, but the courts do still err in favour of the mother, although they are becoming more aware of the father's rights. How is the child treated by the other members of the household?

I think your friend should seek advice on the merits of his situation/case. Either an initial interview with a solicitor or perhaps the CAB. Some CABs do a free 15 min interview with a solicitor if you book in advance. I know they do in this area.

Original poster
lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 18:12

fio, I think he has become so demoralised about himself that he just tolerates it and almost sees it as normal. He hasn't really told anyone else about it, so I'm the only person who gives him feedback from another (i.e. sane!) perspective!

OP posts:
Original poster
lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 18:15

Good point freckle. He would place ds in a nursery instead of leaving him with the grandmother. IMO the little boy would be much better off in a nursery anyway. The grandmother just plonks him in front of the TV all day and never takes him outside, so by the time my friend gets home ds is stir crazy. He's been trying to potty train ds recently, but the grandmother can't be bothered to run around emptying potties. Basically she's very lazy. How he would prove this to a court I don't know. He's talked about recording conversations and the like to use as evidence - is that crazy or sensible? I really don't know!

OP posts:
fio2 · 11/03/2004 18:16

Its awful isnt it? I think for men aswell they find it much harder to talk about domestic abuse. I know someone (male) who was in an abusive relationship and only ever told me years later. The only other person who knew was his sister because she had to clean him up after a fight. It is very very difficult.

I would definately point him in the direction of CAB. Also Tom usually has very good advice so maybe post on his site too?

sb34 · 11/03/2004 18:26

Message withdrawn

Original poster
lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 18:29

I've posted on Tom's site now as well, so we'll see what the dads have to say on the matter. I guess it wouldn't do any harm to capture some of the verbal abuse on tape.

My brother didn't see his sons for nearly 10 years when his lunatic wife lied to the courts, and I'm scared to death that this could happen to my friend IYKWIM. I can't imagine anything worse that losing contact with my children.

OP posts:
wintye · 11/03/2004 18:31

I would def advise him to tape during the day when the grandmother has DS if he can. Even film if he can get away with it. It would a relief if things were going ok. If not then he would some evidence to take to solicitor or CAB.

Good luck and I hope it all works out.

wintye · 11/03/2004 18:34

Just to add. I'm 29 now and my dad won custody over my mum of me and my brother when I was 9 and brother was 7. My mum's brother even stood in court and said we should be with the father. Does he have anyone that could stand in court as witness to things that have been going on. How is DS treadted at home with his mother???

Original poster
lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 20:08

I don't think he has got anyone who could stand up in court for him, no. He doesn't come from this area - the only people he knows here are the gf's family and me.

As for the gf's relationship with their ds - it's practically non-existent. According to him, she hasn't changed his nappy in the last 2 years. Her daughter takes part in a lot of extra-curricular activities, so she is out ferrying the daughter around most evenings and consequently sees little of ds. He keeps trying to encourage her to spend more time with ds because she gets upset when she does try to give him a cuddle, ds cries and runs back to daddy!

OP posts:
wintye · 11/03/2004 22:45

I can't believe this woman. He sounds like such a good father. I really admire how he stands up for his ds. Would you (loopinpooter) be prepared to help out in court.

It's a lot to ask as you probably have family commitments of your own. That's if you could get him to take it that far.

I am really sorry I can't help.

Let me know how it goes. Give him a hug and just tell him you will always be there for him, for support. If he isn't ready to take it that far yet, then all you can do is just be a really good friend and help him to pick up the pieces.

Maybe talk to him about how his son might be feeling with all this going on and what would be best for him in the long run, maybe then he could have a good think on it all.

Good luck

Original poster
lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 22:54

wintye, thanks so much for your support. Yes, I would be willing to stand up in court for him, but I doubt I'd be much use as I'm not a friend of the family as it were, so I'm only going by what he's told me - which, incidentally, I entirely believe. I knew his gf years before he met her and she was a nasty piece of work then!

He's a wonderful dad, I do know that. I've seen him with his ds lots of times - he's utterly devoted to the little lad.

Will let you know how it goes. Tomorrow I will offer to accompany him to the CAB or a solicitor.

OP posts:
wintye · 11/03/2004 23:04

Keep me posted lupinpooter. I wish you both luck tomorrow.

I'd hate it if my DP and I split, I would of course want my children to be with me. I think it is a very hard system. Whose to say who is the better parent.

I have always told DP that if we were ever to split, I would let him see the children when he liked and we could sort maintenance ourselves. He is a wonderful father and I can't see how other women use their children as porns to get their own way.

My mother used us like that (but she did always love us)

Again, good luck and keep me posted. Will log on tomorrow when I have a spare 5 mins.

Original poster
lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 23:08

Unfortunately, I don't think his gf will play fair if they do split up. It's a very sad situation

OP posts:
wintye · 11/03/2004 23:14

With any luck they will see her for the BITCH she is.

I wish there was something we could all do.

These situations really help to put your life in perspective don't they.

Original poster
lupinpooter · 11/03/2004 23:36

I despair of him sometimes though. He just sent me a text saying that although she hadn't said sorry for last night (laughing in his face) she has been "a bit more humane" tonight. As if that forgives everything!

OP posts:
wintye · 11/03/2004 23:58

He obviously loves her.

I hate when things are hard to see when it comes to family and loved ones.

All anyone can do is look on and hope they see it for themselves one day.

It's all about making our own mistakes. I feel sorry for DS.

Original poster
lupinpooter · 12/03/2004 00:03

I don't know, maybe he does, although he says he doesn't (love her that is). He says he is willing to go to the CAB with me tomorrow, so that's a step forward I think.

You're dead right about it being hard to look on and watch loved ones struggle. They will only change when they are ready to, and that's hard to accept.

OP posts:
Chandra · 12/03/2004 00:21

Appologies for not joining in the condemnation of the gf but please notice I am not against this guy..

Has anybody suggestedabout him having the conversation in private with his wife and not in front of the MIL?, what about going to Relate? He can go by himself in case he fears gf will laugh about the idea and, they for sure can help him to understand what he can do to improve the situation, or guide him about which is the best way out of that marriage if there's nothing that can be done.It may help him to raise his selfesteem as well and give him the courage to do something about it.

The problem with people that becomes a "doormat" is that neither the abuser neither the victim realise how bad things are getting until they are really bad. So, before we all lure him into the advantages of leaving "that woman" and into the high risk of loosing contact with his child. Can anybody find the Relate number for his area?

wintye · 12/03/2004 00:21

Well good luck again for tomorrow and my thougts will be with you.

Speak to you then.

wintye · 12/03/2004 00:27

I think maybe Chandra has a point. I get the feeling this woman isn't the sort of person to go to relate though.

If you think that there is a possible chance for her to go, lupinpooter, then if you can't find a number, let me know and I will have a look.

Maybe the CAB will be able to give you a number tomorrow.

I also think if he says he doesn't love her and really means it then maybe they shouldn't be together anyway. I don't think people should stay together for the sake of the children.
Obviously it's not good for DS to see his father treated in this way.