I want to maintain reasonable relationship with EXP for sake of DS, but he's an utter nightmare- what to do?

[letsbehonest100]

EXP and I split a year ago. We were together 9 years, and have a wonderful DS (almost 7).

EXP was a really difficult partner- selfish, work shy, no interest in spending time as a family etc. After years of trying to change him and / or myself I finally realised I couldn't continue the relationship and I ended it.

My only regret is ripping apart DS' 'happy' home. I do realise that given time, his father's rubbish behaviour would have had a negative impact on DS, so although I feel terribly guilty for not managing to hold the family together for his sake, I do think that in the long term I have done the right thing by DS, as well as for myself.

I was determined to try to keep things as amicable as possible with EXP. As a child of divorced parents I'm well aware that most of the hell surrounding separation comes from subsequent warring between parents.

But it seems every way I turn EXP is aggressive, unkind , unreasonable and critical. He turns everything into an argument, refuses to pay maintainance (I can't do anything as he is self employed and cooks his books), shouts, swear and calls me names over the phone, does very little for DS, criticises my (very lovely) new partner, gives me grief for everything that I do.

I have continued to take it all on the chin, avoided a fight, facilitated EXP's relationship with DS as much as I can by being endlessly flexible and ignoring the criticism.

I'm exhausted with the abuse that I'm receiving. I've attempted to keep communication just about DS, and tried to stick to emails or texts rather than phone calls. It's been a failure as he always manages to verbally abuse me and says its impossible to communicate properly without phonecalls. I've list count of the times that I've cried and cried after one of his phonecalls- I try not to let him get to me, but I can't help it.

I've had enough. I want him to leave me alone. I've told him this but he continues and manages to twist everything and blame me- he recalls a completely different set of events after he's had a massive go at me. I find myself so confused and muddled.

DS is the light if my life and my absolute priority. I desperately want an amicable co-parenting relationship with EXP, because its the least DS deserves- but it's tearing me apart......

Sorry for the rant!! Any advice would be very much appreciated!

Cardinal rule is not to be drawn into lengthy debates and explanations. If you don't want to change contact, say "Sorry, I'm afraid that's not possible this week." End of debate. Once you start going into details about why you don't want to (and there does not even have to be a good reason) it opens the door for him to start hassling you about your choices and lifestyles, and he gave up that right (if he ever had it in the first place) when you split up.

Do not let your current partner get involved, this is your battle and unfortunately you can be the only one to fight it. Being amicable takes two and can never work if one person insists on being a bully. You are going to have to toughen up, being a people pleaser invariably means you get trodden on and abused.

There are two things going on here, one is that your Ex is a bully and a dick and the second is that you're a bit of a pushover. You can't change your Ex but you can and should work on your people pleasing tendencies. Work out what your boundaries are, communicate them and the consequences of overstepping them and follow through.

1. Communication should be limited to contact and must be via texts and e-mails so there is a record. Do not engage in any other conversations out side of the written word. If he makes any attempts to have a quick word just say "Put it in a text" and walk away.

1. If he becomes abusive during a handover, the next handover happens in a contact centre.

It is admirable that you want your son to have a relationship with his father but this shouldn't be at your expense. Watching his mum being bullied is not a positive lesson for any child.

Thanks again for all your advice.

I have just asked EXP via text if he could supervise DS' homework when he has him (from 1pm today, until Tuesday morning). It's the first time I've not supervised it myself, and EX agreed a few weeks ago to do it ocassionally.

He's kicked off and texted to say I'm dumping it on him, without sufficient notice and that I should be calling him about it not texting.

I've replied saying I would hope he will supervise the homework, otherwise this week it won't get done.
In reality I could do it with DS on Tuesday evening, but I'm not going to back down.

We have parents evening next week- we have a joint appointment, but I'm now considering trying to book a seperate one. Is that wrong? If he can't be bothered to do DS' homework with him, then I don't see why I should have to tolerate him at parents evening. Is that unfair on the school? Or on DS, who I'm sure would feel upset that we hadn't gone together?

Separate appointments right now would be a good idea.

Tbh I wouldn't have bothered texting about the homework- I'd suggest ds asks him directly and if ds forgets then do it yourself, sorry.

I think you still expect him to treat you as you treat him. He won't.

My school only gives separate appointments in extreme cases, such as DV or where there are injunctions out. With 18 out of 30 in my current class with separated parents, which is not an unusual number, anything else would be unmanageable.

I hadn't thought to leave it up DS to ask john, he would probably forget, but it wouldn't go any harm to get him to try and take a little more responsibility for getting it done. School take the learning log approach to homework, which does require a certain amount of parental support....

clam you make a very good point- I wouldn't want to create extra work for school. I do spend parents evening squirming at EXPs comments, many of which I disagree with. He is more pushy than me, and as its unfair on his teacher to have to deal with two different points of view I tend to have to keep my thoughts to myself. I don't see why I should do that, especially as EXP seems to expect me to do all school support stuff. I would like to discuss a few things that DS has struggled with with his teacher, but I know EXP will be pushy about it and we won't get anywhere. A seperate appointment where my voice is heard would be brilliant, but unfair on the teacher.

You are scared to be a nuisance to anyone....

As a one off, ask them. I really think you need to make a stand against this abusive bullying twat - I think it would be healthier for you and ultimately healthier for ds.

I meant to say good on you for texting - sounds like he hated that! - Can't fit so much nastiness in a text.

It's a step forward though - you've set the agenda, and not given in to his instructions to call and not text.

Can you alternate parents' evenings? You go to one, ex goes to the next. My guess (and it is only a guess) - your ex will be too selfish to keep this up for long, especially if you aren't there to bully and intimidate at the same time. So you may end up with all of them, as you would prefer.

I don't know if this is workable, it's just a thought.

I would:
Book separate appointments for parents evening. You aren't going to get anywhere going together and it will waste the teachers time if you do.
Not contact him about arrangements but email with 'you need to let me know when you get your shifts, once a month, by x date, what access you want and I'll respond with which ones suit. If you cannot be civil I will not be speaking to you or responding to texts. All your phone calls and texts are being recorded as they are abusive and unnecessary. Please facilitate all contact arrangements through this email address and no other means. If you continue to harass and abuse me, I will be taking further action regards your treatment and bullying of myself. I will be expecting you to participate and supervise in all homework activities that fall on time that you have access to our child.'

lets stop being so nice.

Get a non-molestation order so that he cannot contact you except on your terms.

Get a contact order for your son.

Your ex sounds like mine, he will not change, sorry.

Thanks john - this thread has shown me clearly that its ok to insist on text or email communication only. He doesn't like it one bit, and I expect he will do all he can to force me to speak to him.

I will struggle not to pick up the phone later today when he has DS. But if he calls later I plan to text saying I don't want to speak on the phone and he should text me if there are any problems..... No doubt he will accuse me of not caring about DS, and I'm a bit worried he will also tell DS that I'm refusing to speak to him.

I do feel that making a stand over parents evening might be my chance to begin to get my power back.....

I'm fuming with EXP today. I don't usually 'do' angry, so it feels weird and I'm not sure how to deal with it. I'm having to force myself not to text him to give him a piece of my mind!

You're not really co-parenting because if you were he wouldn't kick off at such a request, he would pay maintenance, he wouldn't bully you etc. I think you should explain your strained relationship with your Ex to DS's teacher as I think they might try and accommodate you. I was brought to tears when the staff at DD's pre-school said they would look after DD between pre-school sessions so I could attend court and read my victim impact statement in person.

I agree, you still have the mindset that he will change. I get it, I really do because after all the shit my Ex put me and Dd through, it finally occurred to me that his selfishness isn't down to him not knowing but rather a pathological character trait which means he will never see past his own needs. It wasn't an easy conclusion but one which I hope will help me fully detach from the idiot and more importantly, prepare myself for supporting dd when she has to manage her limited expectations of her father.

Accommodating this idiot doesn't make you a better parent, you are already are damn good one. Work on your boundaries and police them.

Crikey funky and jayho, that sounds drastic, but also extremely tempting!!

I will look into a non molestation order. Does there not need to be proven abuse?

Would a contact order work where EXP has variable shifts?

I desperately want to break free of EXP, but have read and wholeheartedly agree with so many threads pointing out the importance of doing everything possible not to make separation any harder for DC than necessary. Getting very tough feels like putting my needs ahead of DS', he is my absolute priority. He's a ray of sunshine in all this crap and he deserves me to smooth the path where I can......

Angry is good but channel that into setting and maintaining boundaries. I know it's hard but I would talk to your son, let him know that there are communications problems and you hope the new SMS and e-mail rule will help and has absolutely nothing to do with him. Kids see a lot and have incredible imaginations in the absence of simple but clear facts.

You're doing well, you'll look back and think why the hell did I put up with his crap for so long.

You are the most important adult in your sons life and you prioritise son by looking after his mum.

To get a non-mol you need to demonstrate a pattern of conduct and that it makes you fearful (I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will come along). You have his texts and emails as evidence, I suggest you record his calls.

I got an emergency one because my ex was verbally abusive to me and I was frightened it was going to escalate to physical abuse.

I went to my solicitor, we prepared a statement, got an emergency appointment with a district judge, he listened to me, got my assurance that I would not stop ex seeing children and granted the order. All contact had to be written, all hand-overs in the presence of witnesses.

It lasts a year, make sure you get one with power of arrest. My ex then knew that if he put one tiny foot out of line I could call the police and he would immediately be arrested.

Same with the contact order. You can get an order that says something along the lines of ' contact to be x days and nights, to fit dick's shift pattern, arranged fortnightly in advance in writing'.

Don't underestimate his behaviour, it is abuse. Good luck

Thank you Isetan, that's a really helpful way of looking at it.

I think I sometimes minimise the amount of abuse I've received from EXP since splitting up (never mind what went on before). It's never been physical- just shouting, swearing, name calling and a accusing me of all sorts of nasty things. If it had happened to a friend I would be appalled on their behalf.

I need to really believe I don't deserve this treatment from him, and put the boundaries in place that this thread has shown me need implementing.

lets that's 'all' my ex did. Eventually a nice police man sat me down and told me that I was being abused and there was little they could do to help until I realised it. He gave me the number for women's aid and when I called they sent out a support worker who listened to my tale and confirmed that it was abuse and likely to escalate.

Please don't minimise what he's doing to you.

www.womensaid.org.uk/

I'm so disappointed that I don't have his old texts, I dropped and broke my phone a few weeks ago, and so lost my texts. He never replies to emails.

I had texts threatening all sorts of very nasty stuff from him. He has also threatened to hurt new partner on a few occasions in front of other people, although more recently covered his ass by claiming he was now ready to 'shake his hand'.

I've looked into the call recording thug, it would be great but the apps sound complicated, and need permission from the caller unless its an outgoing call.... Maybe I could try to speak on speaker phone and use a dicterphone (sp?!).

He has refused to leave my house infront of DS more than once but I wouldn't want to drag him into this.

I'm feeling very frustrated all of a sudden that I can't prove much of what he has done.

I'm really pleased at the possibility of a loose contact order which would allow for EXPs chaotic work arrangements. Do I start with a solicitor, or is there a less formal route? Does anyone know what I do if EXP refuses to cooperate in putting an agreement together?

Surely you can arrange to have a word with your son's class teacher after school one day? It doesn't have to be parent's evening that you iron out this stuff.
It's part of a teacher's role to be available to parents for this sort of stuff - but open evening is always the best time. Leave that for discussing his general progress. Fill the teacher in on what a twat your ex is another time!

It might be easier to just start a diary of what he says and does, if you can remember back over a few weeks/months.

Get a free first hour with a solicitor for some advice.

You can self represent at court but I'd recommend using a solicitor for the non-mol.

The court process is exactly because he's not co-operative. Basically you're saying to the court 'he won't make and agreement so I would like you (the court) to impose one on us.'

Also, if you've got a non-mol then you won't get sent for mediation.

As others have said, you can't have an amicable relationship on your own, it doesn't work like that. If he isn't cooperating then you just have to try and minimise contact (with yourself) as much as possible.

I think most solicitors will advise you to go to mediation first. This might not be appropriate if he is being abusive towards you, though.

I've been watching this thread with interest as I'm in much the same situation. I suffered much verbal abuse, aggression and destruction in my relationship, I finally got the opportunity to leave ten days ago and me and my DC haven't been this happy in a long time.
ExH is fluctuating between wanting a reconcilliation (absolutely no way jose) and being verbally abusive when he calls. On thursday I told him I wouldn't answer his calls again and all questions about our DC needed to be via text. He now says I'm being unreasonable not answering his calls and even went as far as to say I was stopping him seeing DC, quickly followed by saying unless I call him he won't contact to see our DC . I've outlined very clearly via text that I am not stopping him seeing our children, he can contact via text and I will be as accomodating as possible. Some of the things he's said both over the phone and text are despicable and all lies.
It's good to know that I'm totally reasonable and by the sound of it well within my rights to insist on written conversations only. The last thing I need is his verbal abuse following me now we're separated. Good luck OP in making your ex understand your new rules, now I just have to do the same with mine.