Unsure of what to do about relationship - any views much appreciated

[AndLibbyMakesThree]

I met C on a dating site, and we've been together for about 15 months. He's kind, caring, intelligent, active, we enjoy lots of the same things, he's fantastic with my son, who has special needs, and I adore his DC.

However, there's one problem which is really getting to me. He has a tendency to get frustrated/cross, and I find it really difficult to deal with. It's happened in various different situations, and some of them seem very minor things from my point of view. I'm not used to it - my previous partners have always been quite laid back, and it's simply never been an issue before.

We've spoken about it several times, and he tells me he's improved a lot from how he used to be. Apparently he used to shout a lot, and he almost never does this now. I appreciate that he's probably much better than he used to be, but at the same time, I hate the fact that nice times can be spoiled by him snapping or being cross about something minor. I think one problem is that we're a bad combination in this way - I admit I'm over-sensitive and very easily hurt, whereas I think many people would just let it pass them by. (I should point out that he's not aggressive, or verbally nasty, usually just a bit snappy, so I'm wondering if it's me making too much of normal behaviour and expecting him to be perfect).

After the last occasion, at the weekend, we haven't seen each other. I've told him that I'm not happy being in a relationship where this keeps happening. I feel this is his issue, not mine, and it's something that he has to work on (if he wants to). But I'm not sure he can work on it while we're together, as I'm the one who keeps on getting upset by his behaviour, and I don't want to continue in that way. I'm also scared it will get into a 'treading on eggshells' situation.

But at the same time, I feel terribly sad about losing this relationship. In many ways it's great, and I wonder if I'm making far too much of a fairly small problem, and throwing away a good relationship over it. He has so many good points, and I know how hard it is to find someone I like as much as him. I'm also far from perfect myself, yet he isn't giving me ultimatums to change or he'll leave me, and I hate the thought that I seem to be doing that to him.

Sorry for the length of this, but I'm feeling very sad and confused, and would really appreciate any views. Thanks.

www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

Sorry, the loser has a list of red flags to watch for! ^

I don't agree with the 'when in.doubt dump' policy. Nobody is.perfect and at 15 months into a relationship they are still discovering each others good and bad points. I think the worst that could happen is that the OP loses a potentially great.life partner. And what about the children? Dumping on a whim a man the OP does not think abusive is not great advice. She isn't ignoring.the things she is worried about. At this stage I think maybe.they could work on it.and see how.it.goes. Why is he stressed for.instance? Maybe he hates his job? Worried about something underlying? Could counselling help?

Thanks once again for your thoughts. It seems that most people think he's going to get worse and/or we're incompatible and that we should split up.

Ratqueen, I'm unconfrontational as well. Though funnily enough I'm the one that gets irritable if I haven't eaten for a while. However, I'm careful to regulate this by eating often, so that it very rarely happens now.

I also very much share your fear that if I end this, I might be losing a great partner. Re stress: his job has got more stressful recently, but the behaviour started long before this, so I don't think it's that. I think it's his personality and/or the way he's reacted to things for years.

Hissy, my ideal solution would be that he recognises what he has to lose and really makes proper steps to change his behaviour. But I have to admit it's unlikely that will happen - and even if he changed for a short while, how would I know this behaviour wouldn't returned if, say, we were living together and it was harder for me to split up with him?

Poppy, I think you could be right - but I also think that the things I've mentioned could just be instances of him getting frustrated/grumpy like many of us do from time to time, rather than a controlling man starting to show his colours. Aaagh, I just don't know, that's why it's so hard! I also find it hard to believe that he'll try to start changing things about my friends/work/where I live, etc, as he's never shown any signs whatsoever of anything like that. As I think I've said, he's very accepting of me.

vrtra, it's really interesting to hear from you and I admire your honesty in admitting that you can be irritable, have bad moods, etc. Do you mind me asking why you acted like this, and why you couldn't stop acting in this way even though you knew it might mean the end of your relationship? (Sorry, I don't mean that in a nasty way, so hope it doesn't come across that way).

I read the loser list but the only possible one that I really thought could apply a little was that I might start treading on egg-shells.

Sorry to anyone I've missed out - I really appreciate all your views.

hurts too much to talk about it a lot at the moment, it only happened on sunday. had very dysfunctional role models in my parents as a child, mother had phenomenal rages, father placated.

also i have asperger's undiagnosed till recently, perhaps meaning i have trouble identifying what i am feeling and how what i say makes others feel. dunno, therapy costs £30 a go, have taken out an overdraft to cover 10 weeks worth from an autism specialist.

i never had the insight to see what i was doing or how my moods affected my behaviour and why it was abnormal verging on hurtful and even cruel at times. the 'acute stress' equation went something like I FEEL STRESSED = I MANIFEST MY STRESS = TIME PASSES = STRESS WILL GO AWAY. rather than I FEEL STRESSED = I TRY TO NOT THINK ABOUT IT AND TRY TO NOT ACT STRESSED = TIME PASSES = STRESS WILL GO AWAY. even when we had "talks" it was fine after it blew over because it was not a long-lasting, day to day thing with me and there were other problems as well - i have terrible time management which is probably dyspraxia and he hates people being late, for example. I was working on it still but getting a lot better at not equating "late afternoon" with 6pm or thinking i could get up, washed, dressed, packed and out the door in 10 mins.

the one silver lining is that i think/hope i never crossed the line into abusive language as it was always about how i felt and how bad it was / how miserable I felt rather than bringing up perceived defects of other people, and i never blamed others for my moods, i blamed my reaction to them iyswim? i am capable of knowing when i am saying horrible things to someone and relating to the pain it causes but the indirect effect of my self loathing is a bit more blurry still.

the underlying cause is emotional immaturity, wanting others to notice how shit i feel and fix it for me.

hoping to get some kind of therapy so i can learn not to buckle under stress and get my arse up and CHANGE, just wish i had my best friend by my side while i do it :( he says he needs time but i think he is just trying to let me down easy. this isn't easy, i feel like my heart is being carved out with a spoon. 100% deserved though which weirdly makes it easier to deal with.

i find it difficult to transpose my situation onto yours. you sound very tolerant and a wonderful partner. as someone who barely manages daily life without any, it blows my mind how anyone copes with kids, let alone kids AND a relationship! if he is going to be the partner you deserve, he needs to grow up emotionally, and he needs to be the one to WANT to grow up. that's my opinion which may well be dysfunctional as fuck so please feel free to ignore it

FWIW, I don't think he sounds like an abuser-in-waiting. You both sound like 2 people who employ emotional reasoning, though: he gets upset at stuff outside his control, you get upset at his moods because they affect yours.

And therein may lie the basic incompatibility: perhaps each of you would do better if you had the ballast of a more logical, or laid-back, personality type as a companion, rather than another sensitive/emotional/idealist/perfectionist like your own selves.

I may be projecting massively here, though, so please ignore if it doesn't resonate.

Apparently he used to shout a lot, and he almost never does this now.

This for me is a big warning signal. He used to shout? How can you be sure this behaviour is in the past? Did he have therapy and thoroughly change his behaviour patterns?

It could be that he shouted a lot in his previous relationship/s and now he's out of those situations he thinks he's stopped, when actually it's just the relationship that's over. Or it could be that he's an angry person and it's manifesting more now as passive aggression and outbursts.

He's on his best behaviour in a fairly new relationship and already he's having irrational strops over nothing.

My concern would be - how does this bode for the future when he gets more relaxed with you, and how he will cope if anything major were to go wrong in his life? He clearly has a short fuse and a low tolerance of stress. He could turn into an angry shouting man...

Ultimately it's for you to decide exactly how far these strops will go, whether you can tolerate them, and if they change your feelings for him.

i remain very much in 2 minds over this.

Don't think I'm projecting at all but, the timeline of this remains - to me - relevant.

Milestones of relationship:
3m - everything is heady, breathless and wonderful
At 6m, everything is wonderful, he's lovely, you're lovely, trying not to get TOOO excited, but SQUEEEEE

12m: A significant milestone - beginning to get serious, still very much honeymoon period, you're great, he's great. Everything is easy, relaxed and calm. Beginning to make more 'plans' a holiday, trips away. establishing a comfortable and happy routine.

12-18m - more of the same, with a creeping in of what's next.

A relationship with an abuser is about the same up until now, but often headier and the most perfect relationship you've ever had otherwise. you forgive the little comments/snaps, because everything is so great otherwise. But here is when things start to change, imperceptibly at first.

The sorts of events you have described are so low level that it's easy to just ignore, because everything else is so good otherwise.

18m - 2years - all good, but things that never bothered him before, do, more snappy/comments/dislikes. A reaction that you were expecting to be fine, inexplicably is non-committal/disinterested/not quite AS positive as you were expecting. You sense this and start to reflect if it was something you did/said. Friends you had suddenly are no longer as welcome you feel as they had been.

And so it starts....

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND....

It may be a simple matter of incompatibility.

As my therapist said "A man may not be abusive, but he may not be right for you'

I'm a strong believer in paths. The man you have has taught you something, you will know what that is. It could be to have a committed relationship, between you and him only, without the interference of his DM for example.

Whatever it was that you were supposed to learn, you have learned. Now you must make yourself ready for the next lesson. If you try to cling on to this one, you will stop the next from coming.

Have faith, trust the future. You deserve better than a man that throws a coat down. the Used to be shouty comment does really bother me. Sounds like he's trying not to be him, and now and again, that mask is slipping.

I don't think this guy is right for you regardless.

Just got home and have read four really insightful, helpful responses. Thanks so much, vrtra, hotDAMN, Twinklestein and Hissy. I want to respond properly to you all, but have to do the school run soon. I'll reply properly either tonight or tomorrow. Thanks once again - I've felt much less alone since I posted this and it's given me lots of food for thought.

Ratqueen: I am a very strong advocate of 'when in doubt, dump' because there is so much dangerous propaganda which is the opposite of this. Women are constantly told to change their own behaviour because it's so very, very important to have A Man In Their Lives, when it isn't. We're often told that abusive behaviour is a sign of how much some dickhead 'loves' us, and that we have to be patient, and nice, and that 'relationships need to be worked at.'
No, they don't. If you dump a man and it turns out that he wasn't actually dangerous, then SFW? No one died from being single. And there's no such thing as a 'soulmate'.

Libby. Two minds again... He sounds quite intolerant, and as if he may get worse when he is not on best behaviour. But on the other hand, I am quite intolerant myself! I try to be patient, but it doesn't always work. I am less tolerant than I expect people to be with me IUSWIM. I have MH issues, and this is worse when I am stressed.

vrtra, thank you for sharing all that, and I really hope it hasn't made you feel more upset. I hope you're coping ok. It's great that you've taken the step of getting therapy, and I hope it helps (I've had counselling before and found it helpful). You're definitely right that C needs to want to change - it's not something I can do for him. And your comments about childhood and emotional immaturity were especially interesting.

hotDAMN, yes, I've increasingly been thinking that our personality types don't go together. Having said that, though, my ex was very laid back and I didn't like that either! Maybe I'm just impossible to please.

Twinklestein, you're highlighted one of the things I fear - that he may turn into "an angry shouting man". There does seem to be some anger inside him in a way I haven't experienced with others. And as for whether his behaviour has changed my feelings for him - yes, it has, and a little bit more each time a new incident occurs. Re the shouting, he did tell me that he stopped shouting during his marriage, rather than after it.

Hissy, are you psychic? How did you know that in my last relationship, my ex's DM was a significant part of the problem? But moving on from that, yes, it's hard to tell whether what I'm seeing now are early signs of something that's going to get a lot worse or not - but, as you say, either way it doesn't seem that we're compatible.

Thanks to SGB and Parsley too. Parsley, I think, like you, C tries to be patient and is annoyed with himself when he doesn't manage to be.

I feel I've emotionally distanced myself from C a lot this week. On a number of occasions in the past we've discussed things and carried on with the relationship - and although there have been good times, I've ended up getting hurt. I don't know if I want to do it any more.

Ah, Hissy's point...my XH had 'anger issues'...part of him being an arsehole, but XMIL was a witch, who had intefered in his life too much when he was a child, and also as an adult. She tried to control our relationship from 200 miles away, especially when we had DD. He had a love/hate relationship with her, and also, sadly with me. Unfortunately he wasn't willing to address it. He has married another woman, and shows no sign of being different alas.

He he, i'm not psychic! You mentioned in a post that he loved his mother far more than you!

I guess she interfered and he did nothing. Didn't defend you, or you couldn't 'match up to her' a role which you may or may not have been conditioned into by the golden child dynamic you had in childhood.

See? You're learning! You're moving up the evolutionary tree of relationships.

Solidgold, I agree ref soul mates; I said potentially great life partner. I just don't think that should be chucked away without serious consideration as some issues do iron out over time. The OP does not think her partner is abusive. They may be incompatible but not all grumpy men are violent. Of course I would advocate dumping an abusive man however (as I did).

Abusive doesn't just mean violent, ratqueen.

Emotional abuse breaks your spirit and your soul.

You say "think of the children," but OP's child is not this man's.

I am probably projecting too, but i see red flags.

If he loved and respected you, the fact that his behaviour causes you distress would make him want to change it.

I know not all abusive men are violent, I have been in an EA relationship. Solidgold used the word dangerous, which I probably wrongly took to mean violent. Fact is, the OP doesn't think he is abusive, he scored only one point on the loser link.I say think of the children not because I think she should stay with an abusive man for them but that she shouldn't dump him without thinking seriously about it when she says there is.so much going for their relationship. Because if she changes her mind next week it will be stressful for them (seen this many times with friends kids). Too many people expect perfection and I don't think any relationship is perfect. Are you all? I am not! I once threw a pot of houmus at my husband. Am I abusive?! I don't believe so. What if she just dumps him when he is in fact just grumpy and they could find ways to deal with it?! My dad is proper grumpy at times. My parents have been together forty years and my mum definitely wears the trousers. The OP has asked for advice and my view is not all grumpy men are abusive, and that is from someone who HAS been in an emotionally abusive relationship (and now is happily married to an.occasionally grumpy man). Big difference! All that said it sounds like the OP is seriously thinking about ending it and if that is her gut feeling it is probably the right one. Good luck OP.

I think relationships should be chucked away a lot faster and a lot more often. Life is far too short to waste it trying to appease and second-guess a man who is demonstrating in any way at all that he thinks he is your superior, and the only one whose wishes matter. If more women were encouraged to operate a zero-tolerance policy on inadequate, unpleasant men, rather than advised to suck cock more, eat less, talk less and spend a lot of money on beauty treatments, the world would be a much better place. And there are few bigger wastes of money and time than 'couple therapy' for a relationship with a man who is already obsessed with his own wishes and feelings and insists that if his partner would only be obedient, everything would be fine.

I think relationships should be chucked away a lot faster and a lot more often. Life is far too short to waste it trying to appease and second-guess a man who is demonstrating in any way at all that he thinks he is your superior, and the only one whose wishes matter. If more women were encouraged to operate a zero-tolerance policy on inadequate, unpleasant men, rather than advised to suck cock more, eat less, talk less and spend a lot of money on beauty treatments, the world would be a much better place. And there are few bigger wastes of money and time than 'couple therapy' for a relationship with a man who is already obsessed with his own wishes and feelings and insists that if his partner would only be obedient, everything would be fine

Wow... sums it all up in one post! Just this.

i think when you have a pattern of unreasonable behaviour (which the OP beautifully describes) then emotional abuse is a real concern.

my stbxh was very like this. it started with the arrival of kids (although he was jealous and possessive before kids, which i stupidly ignored and by this time we were married) he truly did suck the joy out of family life.

Being in a foul mood for a queue at the airport at the start of a holiday FFS what a knob end. I use to suck this crap up from my STBXH. I never will again. Poppyfield has it right from where I am (may also be projecting but that's the way I see it)

Seems to me he acts like a baby and throw his toys out of his pram when things don't go his way. I also feel if you lived together his behaviour would get worse not better. Is he abusive? I personally would say probably. The third thing he did was pretty controlling behaviour.

Yes, echo what MorrisZapp said. I was oversensitive, he was overly insensitive... Had a feeling I wanted to leave him due to our incompatability... but didn't because we had kids and there were lots, (well, some), good things about him/the relationship. But it just got worse and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't please or even placate him and, ten years later, he announced he was seeing someone else and was leaving...

Can't say I miss him!

I would be wary...

As someone who has lived long-term and had dc with a grumpy, short-tempered entitled man I would say OP get out now while your gut feeling is still intact.

My STBXH started out easy-going and fun with occasional bouts of posessive jealous behaviour and a quick/scary temper. Nothing I can't handle, I thought.

By the time I kicked him out he was miserable, grumpy, burdened, intimidating, joyless, contributed precisely zero to family life with some VA for good measure.

Like you I am able to enjoy the simple things in life and like to enjoy the happy experience of going on holiday even if there is (heaven forbid) a queue at the airport so STBXH sucked out so much joy from my life. OP I think what you describe is more than 'incompatability' although I accept that some couples accept a lot more low level conflict than others.

Since I kicked him out I am constantly amazed (and upset) by simple things I see such as Dads interacting and being kind and properly engaging with their young children. Ridiculous really. It is only now that I allow myself to notice these things. Because I had to change and suppress myself simply to carry on. If your dp's behaviour continues long term your perception could also become skewed as compensation from you becomes ingrained. Listen to your gut and detach from this guy. He is not for you.

Just a very quick update. C and I met yesterday, for the first time since the incident last weekend. We talked a lot but reached no real conclusion, and went home separately. It seems like our relationship is on hold until we find out whether we can resolve this or not.

Also felt I had to add that he's great at doing things like interacting and playing with DC, and he's not jealous or possessive. However, I'm definitely not prepared to live with this unpredicatable frustration/crossness any more and have made that clear, so I think the ball's in his court now.

Thanks once again to everyone who's replied. It's been very interesting and helpful.