Unsure of what to do about relationship - any views much appreciated

[AndLibbyMakesThree]

I met C on a dating site, and we've been together for about 15 months. He's kind, caring, intelligent, active, we enjoy lots of the same things, he's fantastic with my son, who has special needs, and I adore his DC.

However, there's one problem which is really getting to me. He has a tendency to get frustrated/cross, and I find it really difficult to deal with. It's happened in various different situations, and some of them seem very minor things from my point of view. I'm not used to it - my previous partners have always been quite laid back, and it's simply never been an issue before.

We've spoken about it several times, and he tells me he's improved a lot from how he used to be. Apparently he used to shout a lot, and he almost never does this now. I appreciate that he's probably much better than he used to be, but at the same time, I hate the fact that nice times can be spoiled by him snapping or being cross about something minor. I think one problem is that we're a bad combination in this way - I admit I'm over-sensitive and very easily hurt, whereas I think many people would just let it pass them by. (I should point out that he's not aggressive, or verbally nasty, usually just a bit snappy, so I'm wondering if it's me making too much of normal behaviour and expecting him to be perfect).

After the last occasion, at the weekend, we haven't seen each other. I've told him that I'm not happy being in a relationship where this keeps happening. I feel this is his issue, not mine, and it's something that he has to work on (if he wants to). But I'm not sure he can work on it while we're together, as I'm the one who keeps on getting upset by his behaviour, and I don't want to continue in that way. I'm also scared it will get into a 'treading on eggshells' situation.

But at the same time, I feel terribly sad about losing this relationship. In many ways it's great, and I wonder if I'm making far too much of a fairly small problem, and throwing away a good relationship over it. He has so many good points, and I know how hard it is to find someone I like as much as him. I'm also far from perfect myself, yet he isn't giving me ultimatums to change or he'll leave me, and I hate the thought that I seem to be doing that to him.

Sorry for the length of this, but I'm feeling very sad and confused, and would really appreciate any views. Thanks.

Well I think ideally, in a relationship neither person should have to feel like they need to change who they are.

So whether it's him who has to change, or you, it's not a good sign.

And if you don't know whether this is the worst of his grumpiness or just the surface, why do you want to stick around to find out?

dreaming, I'm not sure I agree with you or not. I agree that people shouldn't feel they need to change who they are in the sense of changing, eg, their interests. But I'm not sure if I agree that people shouldn't want to change their bad points.

Why do I want to stick around to find out? I suppose because a) I hope things will get better and b) when this isn't happening, which is the vast majority of the time, I really like being with him and feel very happy with him, and I think he feels the same. I suppose I have to work out if being with him like this is preferable to being on my own, and that's a very hard decision.

Bin him, he's a cock. THis sort of selfish, attention-seeking behaviour gets worse, not better. You will end up in a relationship that revolves around keeping Tantrum Boy in a good mood, and never able to relax in case something sets him off.
Please bear in mind that it's not just OK to be single, it's wonderful - far too good to give up for a man who chucks his toys out of the pram when he doesn't get everything his own way.

You need to find somebody who can just be themselves around you or vice versa, surely that's the only way to be truly happy. No-one should have to try to be someone they're not. Best of luck.

a) I hope things will get better

This is where we often get trapped.

Things are not likely to get better, only worse. :(

And although he could agree that this is a bad point for him, he could argue that you being too sensitive is your bad point. Along with other things and want you to change too.

Don't enter a relationship trying to change the other person. If he hasn't when he saw that you were hurt then he won't.

It sounds tome like it's not going to work in the longer term - but no reason why you shouldn't just enjoy his company in the short term. Just don't move him in or marry him!

Sorry.

But the other perspective could be to ask yourself why you can't change? You would find it very difficult to stop being so anxious, I would suggest. And I don't think he would find it easy to change either. Therefore, there is a basic incompatibility here.

the airport example would be like a bucket of cold water to me. Getting in a bad mood as you have to queue at the airport to go on holiday? A bit of mild tutting/sighing and then moving on, engaging with you/DC re holiday etc whilst in queue would be fine.

But ruining the start of your holiday with a pointless bad mood and being uncommunicative with YOU screams arsehole to me. He was in such a bad mood he couldn't trust himself to talk nicely to you? Or were you being punished by not being spoken to as it was somehow your fault for delay/queue/wanting to go on holiday/being cheerful?

Hi there, I didnt want to read and run... You said the examples were minor but actually I don't think they are. I think they demonstrate that his behaviour is unreasonable, and you said originally that he told you he used to be worse. It sounds to me that he is not accepting that his behaviour is an issue (and I think it is). This then makes it even more difficult, and it is natural for you at this point to wonder if you are reading too much into it. My advice is when he does something, no matter how minor it seems, think a bit more about it logically. So think about whether it has any consequences (the feeling of walking on eggshells? Your mood being affected? Needing to change something yourself to mean he will be happier? Etc), is there any actual responsibility taken on his part to accept he is wrong and change, also how often is it happening and are the occurances increasing, or getting worse.

It sounds like its a tricky part of the relationship as 15 months is some time to be together. It sounds like you have the opportunity now to listen to your gut. It can be difficult to do because of the time spent together and any doubts that it is an issue. Increase your confidence by thinking about the important things in a relationship and what you want and deserve. Do you deserve to have to deal with this childish behaviour? No. I appreciate none of us are perfect, but it sounds to me by his behaviour, its not about him 'not being perfect' either, but actually about what is acceptable behaviour towards a partner.

But you say you have bad points yourself.

Being grumpy at the airport is not the crime of the century. Being sensitive to noise does not make you evil. The coat thing was childish but you say that was a one off and the worst thing that ever happened. It sounds like he gets grumpy for a short time and then moves on, it's not full-day sulks (is that right?)

You are not wrong to dislike these things -- completely understandable. But that's why I say you're just not compatible. Other people would not be so bothered.

If my husband had a zero tolerance policy for me being grumpy, I would find that very unfair. It would feel to me like I'm expected to be perfect. Obviously I try my best to be in a good mood around him and usually I am, but there are moments where I struggle and snap. Luckily it's not the end of the world. Sometimes he's not in the best mood either and that's fine. If he's upset with me personally, yes I find that hard, but if he's snappy about other things, well, it doesn't have anything to do with me.

So maybe I'm projecting, because I think I'm genuinely a nice person who just gets a bit grumpy sometimes. But maybe your boyfriend really is just a dick and hiding it well so far.

But either way, you just don't sound right for each other. So it doesn't really matter which is the case.

I'm very grateful for all the replies I'm getting - all very useful.

SGB, I wish I felt that being single was wonderful. I've been single for large chunks of my life, but much prefer being in a (good) relationship.

BeCool, the phrase you used about the bucket of cold water is exactly how I felt after last weekend's incident (not one of those I mentioned). One minute everyone (or so I thought) was having a good time, and the next moment C's reaction totally destroyed the mood (for me) in an instant.

Anna, some interesting things to think about, thanks. And I agree with you that it's about acceptable behaviour towards a partner.

It sounds like the consensus is that C and I are incompatible, and that's something I'm going to be considering carefully.

Thanks once again for all the replies - am going out now but will check back again later on.

When people say things like, I'm not perfect myself; I'm working on my faults; no-one is perfect, perhaps I'm asking too much; the vast majority of the time he's fine (or 90% fine, it's only the other 10% that's a problem).....there's always a problem. Because you're reflecting too closely on what constitutes a fault, whether people can realistically be perfect (or angelic), and how much time things are ok for. You don't have to do this, to this extent, if things are really ok.

Someone who gets in a mood WITH YOU when they're fed up about queuing at the airport is going to be more trouble as time goes on. Irritability may be understandable, but why turn it on you? Why did you have to buffer it? Same with the 'you didn't read my mind and kiss me so I'm chucking my coat on the floor'.

I'm inclined to agree with SGB on this one.

But I'm not sure if I agree that people shouldn't want to change their bad points.

But he's NOT wanting to change HIS bad points, is he?

and

I've been single for large chunks of my life, but much prefer being in a (good) relationship.

But sadly you are NOT in a "good relationship"

it takes ON AVERAGE 2 years for a controlling/abusive person to allow themselves to be themselves. Before that time there will be little signs that show you that he needs to be in control. You say that he was on his best behaviour at the beginning and that you fear that he will get worse. I can guarantee that he will.

Those 'bad points' of yours? VERY soon these points WILL be subtly raised as reasons why he's stroppy/quiet/grumpy etc. poster wyrdyBird has it about right on this point. There is NOTHING 'wrong' with you! OR your DS. ANY man would be lucky to have you.

Tell me (if you want to), was any of your Exes abusive? Cos someone, somewhere has done a RIGHT number on your self image.

Hissy, he says he does want to change this, and he's been working on it and has improved. He doesn't say it's ok for him to be like this.

It's interesting that you ask if any of my exes were abusive. They've all been very nice (which is partly why I have no idea how to deal with this). My parents were also nice (though reserved and not good with emotions). But I've been told many times over the years that I have poor self-esteem, so not quite sure where that comes from.

wyrdy, I don't feel he was upset with me at the airport, just that his feelings of frustration rubbed off on me and made me feel a bit upset (eg I was trying to chat but he wasn't being communicative). This was a very small incident, I just put it in because I was trying to give an idea of the different kinds of situations that have happened.

Thing is love.

If someone tells me they really don't like me stopping and huffing when there really isn't any need. I stop.

He could stop this any time he likes. He could just shrug and breathe - as normal people do.

He doesn't. He's making a bit of an effort to pay you some lipservice. Nothing more.

Your parents being reserved (cold?) not good with emotions (not good with YOUR emotions) could be the self esteem thing here. Did you not feel valued by them? Not good enough somehow? Never quite approved of? Did you have a 'golden Sibling'?

The fact that you've made it until now without falling prey to an abuser with self doubt as you appear to suffer from is fairly miraculous tbh.

This man isn't right for you. Even if he's not abusive, he's going to drain the joy out of life, and set a really poor standard for your ds to aspire to.

You don't live with this guy, so cool it right down, get som distance and get to know the bloody brilliant person you really are. I sense that you. Ay be allowing yourself to be defined as 'girlfriend' or 'partner' when actually YOU and Mum should come first.

Remember, he is lucky to have you, you and ds are a readymade family, with enormous value and potential.

Don't sell yourself short!

(((hug)))

A delay of 8hours? Perhaps is worth a small 'argh!'

A queue? In an airport?

Not at all.

You really need to inject some normal into the perspective here. It's not right.

If my 8yo was to huff and puff in a queue he'd get told to pack it in!

Hi, I have been in an abusive relationship and to me it doesn't sound like yours is necessarily one. Actually, in some ways your boyfriend sounds like my husband! He gets proper moody at the beginning of holidays. The coat thing, maybe he was feeling insecure? I wouldn't personally write off a relationship you think has many many good points. There were times at the beginning of my relationship with DH when I was almost packing my bags because of his idiotic strops and my oversensitivity. But 15 months is early days in the grand scheme of things. I am glad I didn't leave but having been in an abusive relationship I knew the difference. I guess your gut instinct will tell you if he is a goodun. I know how emotionally draining it can be to be a constant target. But maybe this is something that one day you will just roll our eyes at?

I'm still feeling quite confused.

Hissy, part of me agrees that he could stop this any time he likes. But part of me thinks that it's not that easy to change deeply ingrained behaviour and it's unfair of me to expect him to. But if I agree to give it time, I might just keep getting hurt.

Your guesses about my childhood are interesting ... while the answer to most of your questions is no, I very definitely did have a golden sibling, and have been strongly affected by this.

I don't feel I define myself as a partner/girlfriend. I'm very capable of ending relationships if they're not working (as with DS's dad) and being single. But I also hate the thought of ending a relationship which in so many ways is good if it's the wrong thing to do.

Thanks for the hug.

ratqueen, I agree - I definitely don't think my relationship is abusive. But I also don't want to live like this forever. Has your DH got better over the years, or are you just less bothered by his behaviour?

Less bothered. Often I just make him a snack! He gets low blood sugar which doesn't help. There have been times when he has been pretty horrid but as 99% of the time he is wonderful I let it go. I also have a golden sibling btw fwiw! I am naturally unconfrontational and it used to really upset me. Now I know it is just him when he is tired/stressed/in a rush/hasn't eaten or whatever. At 15 months into our relationship tho it still bothered me but I now see that time as our getting to know each other after the honeymoon phase (phase).

Love, I spent 30 years hoping it would get better.
My friend spent 20 years hoping the same.

We must be eternal optimists.

I think in general men grumpy, bad tempered men get worse with age, not better.

You will always be tiptoeing round this man, being nervous and worried in case something upsets him and he behaves like a complete nob head again.

Best wishes to you.

If there's a golden sibling in our family, then we are in second place at best, or scapegoat. Our feelings are secondary, and less important.

We won't automatically voice our disagreement, and won't necessarily expect our wishes to be honoured/considered.

I'm not saying that this guy committed a red card offence. He is however most definitely on a yellow card.

There is a chance, if you crack down now, refuse to accept any of this shit, and reduce access to you and your family as a direct consequence to his behaving badly, he might be trained into stopping.

But really, he's on 2 strikes already, you have to be honest with yourself and be rigid about what you'll put up with.

This guy will only get worse from now on, as he relaxes more and more and gets away with it.

If you deal with it now, maybe he'll pack it in.

Main thing is that you don't need to be with an overgrown stroppy toddler. If he wants to be a part of your life, he has to be a positive one.

You deserve this and so much more. If he can't see that, then it really has to be 'move along, nothing more to see'.

Perhaps this guy is a transitional relationship? One to teach you your self worth, so that you are ready for the Forever Man?

If you stay with a Transitional Man, it's a mistake, it's settling for way less than you are worth.

Dear OP,

I thought your post perfectly set down the minor but very real start of a controlling, angry man starting to show his colours. And I really admire you for recognising it. You antennae are spot on and I congratulate you for having a decent sense of self that tells you when things really aren't right. I think this shows that your self-esteem is actually reasonably intact, because your instincts are kicking up a stink, rightly.

There are plenty of women on these threads (me included) who pressed 'override' when we first encountered behaviours that really felt were wrong but were either about things that were so trivial we thought we might get laughed at for raising them, or because you could just dismiss them as one-off or even think 'did I dream that?" The examples you give are really, really good examples of what it is like at the very thin end of the Emotional Abuse edge... who knows what else he is capable of? He is starting to try to control you... you are getting blamed for things like airport queues over which you have absolutely no control, but still he manages to make you feel responsible for it and then in a very short space of time you are made so uncomfortable that he has ruined the start of your holiday. Blame and punishment. There's a rhythm to it.

I admire your abilitiy to see this for what it is. Where you need help is to see the magnitutde of what these things tell you. The things he is doing are not trivial, they strike at very fundamental values of respect for you, other human beings, women in particular. He is starting to tell you who he really is.

Listen to your gut. I thought you put into words extremely well those very strange feelings you have when you know something is wrong, wrong wrong, but can't quite put your finger on how serious it is. I think it is serious, and the more invested (ie the more time you spend) in this relationship, the worse he will get and the harder it will be to get out.

Like Hissy says, he really will drain the joy out of your life. This is what my STBXH did, I felt like I had been drained of joy as surely as a veal calf is hung upside down and bled dry. Wait till he starts to slag off your friends, moan about the demands your friends or family might make on you, or he might suggset you move towns/countries or downsize your job.

Don't get caught out. You may fear being single, but it is OH SO not as bad as getting bogged down with an abuser. It takes years to recover and your son will suffer as well as you.

You sound strong and sorted. Don't hang around with this man any longer. You deserve much much better.

Honestly, 'when in doubt, dump' is the best policy. Because the worst thing that could happen if you dump a man for being unsatisfacgtory is that you become single and/or stay single for a time. The worst thing that could happen if you ignore signs that a man is unsatisfactory is that the man turns out to be abusive, you become trapped in an abusive relationship, the abuse escalates and the man eventually kills you.

I'm tired so excuse the brevity.

He's doing you're head in on many levels.

Be kind to yourself and tell him where to go far away.

posting here because I've just been dumped for this exact reason after 3 and a half years - too irritable, quickly passing bad moods. I guess all I can say is - no one can know the ins and outs of everyone else's relationships, but if it isn't working for you, it isn't working for you.

In my case, the way I am acting is not working for me either, which makes the end of the relationship a hard pill to swallow. I am heartbroken. But it may end up doing the both of you good if you call time now.

If he is grumpy and stroppy about smallish irritations, how would he be when faced with a major setback like serious illness, job loss, leaking roof or any of the other crap that can come along in life? Think about the kind of partner you want for good times and bad.