I actually hate my mil

[bethcutler13]

I apologise for the rant but there is a lot to explain!
I hate and I mean hate (silently hate she has no idea) my mil. To be honest from the day I went round the in laws house to meet them they proved themselves to be petty, manipulative, controlling assholes and I should have run for the hills! My mil screamed at my other half, crying and telling him he was a disappointment because he hasn't been over in 4 weeks (he had a rough patch whereby he kept himself to himself) and they could not stand the fact that since he's grown into his own person he isn't doting on them, calling everyday, visiting every week and smothering his mother in presents (she actually brought up that he never buys her anything nice when he visits!)
Since then, they've done nothing but bully him, make him feel worthless and guilty for not being a sporty, wealthy, sucsessful banker who visits his parents every other day. His mother has moments of screaming and crying at us, one of these being when we told them we were expecting...I got dragged on a walk with my mil where I was expected to explain myself fpr being pregnant! She cried and made me promise if my baby died not to try again until we were "ready" (shs meant they were ready, when it was on their terms!) They continued to yell and scream into the night about how awful it was that a 25 year old man is having a baby and he should be focusing on work blah blah blah until I snapped and told her she was a bully.
Since having my baby, she has smothered her...brought her ridiculous outfits (I have a tomboy she doesn't want your pink, fluffy, netted dresses) and manipulate everyone to get her way 24/7. They threw paddys saying they wanted us over every weekend which we tried to do but it's tough when my oh works full time and we only get 2 days together to sort everything and spend family time and now after demanding our time constantly and screaming and crying when it doesn't happen they've moved to Jersey because they've been offered work where they can make loads of money (theyre money obsessed and already have loads) and now when theyre back they want us to drop everything and spend every second with them, that or hand our dd over to them regardless of the fact they have moved away from her and don't know how to look after her and she doesn't know them!
They have been nothing but bullies the whole time I've known them especially my mil who simply cries to get her way and I'm sick of it. They offer no support, constantly nag and when we try to treat them and be thoughtful it goes unnoticed or isn't enough.
If she fell off the face of this earth I wouldn't miss her. If I had listened to her my dd wouldn't be here, if in my vulnerable hormonal state their bullying had got to me I could have aborted her yet they think they have grandparents rights? !
euggh!
Sorry :'(
Gelp?

[ohfourfoxache]

All you can do is try to cope by avoiding and supporting each other. The right thing will happen at the right time x

[TheseAreTheJokesFolks]

Therein lies your problem. Your dh wants to stay in contact. You do not.
You described him as a wetwipe and basically portayed him fairly or not as abused, cowtowed, weak and a people-pleaser. But you also said you would respect his opinion if it was different to yours.
He is saying he wants to compromise. You now need to work out just what meeting halfway means for you all as a family unit.
As I said before it may be that you need to step back from it and let your dh deal with his parents. In terms of what you are meant to do, you cannot force him to see things the way you do. It could be that he just wants path of least resistance but actually does not feel as bad as you think. If he deals with the dp and his crocodile tear mum and then comes back to you moaning or upset then you can turn around and ask him what he is playing at.
Making it into a power struggle or it's them or me type ultimatum is going to cause resentment if he does not want nc. If it that he can stand up to you but not them but wants to stand up to them then clearly he does have issues. But it could just be that he does not see it like that. As for the constant stalking type behaviour - just do not answer the phone. This may seem like a cop-out but so is texting to cancel.
You need boundaries if they are overstepping and that means that when she cries with You don't see us etc that you talk to her like you will your dd when she becomes a toddler, namely that we can't always have what we want when we want it all the time. If she goes nc herself on your ass then that is a desired result in any case.
Best of luck op. You do have my sympathy.

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

Tell PIL to fuck off and cut all ties.

[Famzilla]

Have you considered getting him some books on toxic parents and how to deal with them? I read a few good ones whilst trying to salvage the relationship between my mother and I. Obviously as per my previous post we are NC now but as your DH doesn't want that it may give him some tips on setting boundaries etc.

just search "toxic parents" on amazon, loads are available. "You're not crazy, it's your mother" was an amazing one for me (but it is written to a female audience.)

[bethcutler13]

I've seen those books but he doesn't think they are toxic. he said to me last night they are the only family he has ever had up until me and dd have been here and although he is starting to see what I see he has never seen it like that because to him its the norm.
he says he would never let his parents treat our dd like they treat him but if they don't notice their behaviour how is going to do that?
because he knows all the horrible things they've done, I reminded him of them all last night and he looked devastated, he just desperately tries to forget because he "doesn't want tl see his parents as toxic"
if I dont see them, they will want to know why and that woth cause problems for him and his "unknowingly abusive" parents, that he wants to "comprise" with. those people have never comlrimised with their son, like they're going to start now.
they didnt want a son, they wanted an obedient dog...perhaps a labrador would have been better.

[bethcutler13]

I do respect his opinion amd unfortunately he IS all those things. ..he shrinks into those things when he is about his parents which points the finger directly at them.
I wpuld never dream of causing any issues between him and his parents if he wants to see them by all means then do so, but I can assure you when I do not turn up with my dd, give it 2 occasions and there will be screaming, shouting and of course crying, which is ultimately me causing a problem between him and his parents for not being a good obedient child.

[Pimpf]

I think you need to stay with him then, he's starting to see what they're like but it will take him a while to come to terms with it. As you said, it's all he's ever know, it's normal to him.

As everyone said, put the phone down or walk away when they start the abuse, let him know that you support him so when he realises that they won't ever change he an walk away

[bethcutler13]

it was always going to go that way anyway, I knew it. he cant bare to see the manipulative side to his parents (even though when they are being manipulative he points it out to me ) so I will have to continue to pretend I like thesw quite frankly disgraceful people for his sake.

[ohfourfoxache]

(((((Hugs)))))

I'm so sorry Beth.

Ok, he now knows that you dislike them, that they are disgraceful and that there are many, many people on here who are of the same opinion as you.

Is this the first time that he has become aware of the strength of your feelings?

As you've said, this is normal for him. He doesn't know any different. Read up,on FOG - fear, obligation, guilt - very, very interesting and genuinely captures why people stay in contact with toxic people/ narcs.

Changes are not going to happen overnight. And in terms of your role, you cannot change your pil - but you can change how you react to them.

Personally I would still go with the termination of a conversation by leaving/ hanging up when they are rude etc and fuck the consequences. The more you put up with it the longer it is going to continue - why wouldn't it? There are no consequences.

Out of interest, where is fil in all this?

[bethcutler13]

I genuinely think he has been completely brainwashed. We've had arguments with me in tears after his mum has caused an argument and I've pointed out how manipulative she is and it hits him but he just slips back into being the obedient son within months and they too slip back into being the controlling narcs. We've actually told them and I have said to his mother that we can never get it right and actually just want to get along with them and their behaviour changes for a couple of months (means they can control their behaviour)
his father is like my oh is. my own mother who had met them only a hanful of times has pointed out how he is afraid of his wife and would never step out of line. xx

[ohfourfoxache]

It certainly sounds that way

Do you think that, if you stood up to her even once, it would be enough to instigate long term change? And I mean really stand up to her, no contact at all - even dd?

I don't want to bore you, but I wondered if this might help.

When I was a child (certainly no older than 3) there was a massive argument between my mum and dad and maternal grandparents. Grandma was a bit of a narc, grandad just did anything to keep he peace. She had been causing trouble all of mum's life, real pita, controlling, manipulative etc etc.

There was a "straw hat broke the camels back" event. She and grandad turned up at our house with grandma demanding to see DSis and I (only grandchildren) and my dad forcibly stopped her from entering the house. He slammed the front door so hard that he broke it. Grandad ushered her away, I can still remember he looked so angry, I'd never seen him like that before.

As you do when you're a child, it was one of those memories that is way at the back of your mind and I never really thought about it again.

It's only in the last few years that the memory has surfaced and I've spoken to dad about this, and he told me what happened afterwards.

There was nc with grandma for a month, grandad was furious with her and made her apologise. He blamed her for creating a situation that could compromise him seeing his granddaughters.

She was still a pita, and the arguments didn't stop completely, but they were greatly reduced. According to dad, she knew that it would be far worse for her than it would be for anyone else if she stepped out of line again, so, like your mil, she was able to control her behaviour. And she realised that, in order to get what she ultimately wanted, she had to control her behaviour.

Fwiw DSis and I utterly adored grandma and grandad. I miss them every single day. But that relationship would not have been possible if grandma had been allowed to treat DSis and I in the same way as she treated my poor mum.

I suppose I'm writing this to try to offer you some hope. It took mum years (33) and a bloody supportive spouse to be able to stand up to her. But things did change. I'm not sure the FOG ever left, but the dynamics of the relationship changed and, once grandma knew that she was not in control, her behaviour started to change.

Sorry, that was an essay

[bethcutler13]

Thanks, that all sounds very familiar to me and there have been occasions when shes been laying in to my oh where I have stood up to her and remimded her that actually she is very luck to have such a great son and the things she is saying aren't right. I've even told her she speaks to him like dirt and I don't want to be around when she acts like that, she will change for a month or so but she will eventually after a few months of not getting her own way throw one of her massive strops.
I think the only way is for me to be more assertive and oh to do the same and continue with that, need to stop bending over backwards for them and treading on eggshells and if she throws a paddy to just remove ourselves.
its just so much easier said than done, sometimes it's hard to get a word in edge ways when shes demanding our time etc and she csn be so persistent and it gets so akward we botb cave!
x

[ohfourfoxache]

I know - written down/ in theory everything sounds so straightforward. Achieving it, and having the persistence though is another matter.

Perhaps persistence is the key here. When she starts to deviate from what you find acceptable, there is a consequence.

It might also help to reward good behaviour. Now I'm not suggesting that your mil is a dog (well, actually..... ) but if a dog does what you ask it to then you will reward with a tasty treat/ playing/ tickle behind the ears. Could the same work for mil? If she behaves then dd makes her a special picture/ you give her a bunch of flowers/ you rub her belly and tell her she is a good girl? When she misbehaves, you withdraw contact.

[bethcutler13]

yes. thats a possibility! Perhaps by being so overly nice after a period of her causing chaos I'm infact rewarding her behaviour.
perhaps me constantly trying to give her thoughtful gifts makes me look desperate for her approval and furthermore puts her above me.
I've recently discovered she absolutely hated dh's ex and realised it's because she was a labrador that did exactly as she was told.

[ohfourfoxache]

Absolutely! Stop the continued niceness - if she is a bitch then she shouldn't get a dentastick!

It's understandable though, if you're faced with someone difficult then I think it's human nature to be as nice as possible and try to pacify them. But she's manipulative, so to a certain extent you need to play her at her own game

[FrankelInFoal]

I have no experience with toxic relatives, but ohfourfoxache's advice to treat her as you would a dog - reward good behaviour and punish bad - sounds spot on. It may be that once your DP sees you standing up to her and getting the desired results he may feel strong enough to do the same.

[ohfourfoxache]

thank you Frankel

[bodygoingsouth]

please stop contact. it's not healthy for you dh or your dd so just stop seeing them.

you aren't depriving your dd you are protecting her.

sounds like your dh is a damaged man, you need to protect him from the cause of that damage. make that your job not appeasing your mil.

[bodygoingsouth]

and you sound like you have tried op. good for you but now it's time to get tough for all your sakes.

[ohfourfoxache]

But DH isn't ready to go nc yet body. Unfortunately the decision isn't just down to op (although it would be far easier if it was)

[bodygoingsouth]

right sorry missed that bit. op I don't know it's difficult.

what would your dh do if you said you weren't seeing them again. would that shock him into seeing them for what they are? sorry if this has been already discussed.

[bodygoingsouth]

yes agree also with Ohfourfoxache approach too.

[RainYourRottingMyDhaliaBulbs]

ONE Of you needs to shore up and say no enough, this is not going to be your DH.

One of you has to say stop.

its not going to be him.

Otherwise hello years of misery in your marriage, ending in divorce.

Your DH comment...they are the only family I have had...

is ridiculous...most people until they marry and have their own DC, also, have only had their parents and sibs. stupid comment.

if your wishey washy following his wet wipe lead you are going to get nowhere.

you have tried different tacs with them and nothing has changed.

do you know why?

because your pils dont respect you,

they dont like you, they dont respect you and they think they are superior to you and until very short time ago they had 100% control over their son..and still have 99% control now, and you - just fall into line also.
you said yourself you are overly nice to her.


what motivation here is for them to even begin to look at how they treat their son?

none.

the only slight pull you have is their GC. and withdrawing contact.

you have to be the one who says to your DH....I understand their your parents and their treatment of you is al you know, its like stockholm syndrome...that is what you have.

I your wife can see its not healthy, nor the way they treat us.

I your wife am saying enough, no more.

You carry on seeing them if you wish but I and your DD will have no part of it any more until their behaviour improves and that could be years.

I will not subject myself or my DD to them any longer nor do i want dd to hear and witness the low esteem in which they hold you in.

you have to stop caring what they think of you,,,,and start caring for your self and your dd.

[RainYourRottingMyDhaliaBulbs]

but ohfourfoxache's advice to treat her as you would a dog - reward good behaviour and punish bad - sounds spot on

Disagree with this, have been in same position and tried this it doesnt work becuase they dont think they are doing anything wrong..they see themselves as superior..all that happens is you give an inch they wade in every time nad take a mile. they are too strong willed...which is why we are all in this mess with pils like this in the first place.

the only soloution is for op to withdraw, with dd and not see them and put foot down.

[Galaxymum]

I do feel for you OP. YANBU and I think you recognise the situation very well. I would seriously go to speak toa counsellor and have a private rant where you feel you won't be judged.

I have experienced manipulative bullying from my mil since I got engaged to DH 18 years ago. Many times I've considered and even discussed us splitting up because she causes so many problems but then she would win. I now have to remind myself when I am in her presence to step back and think this is HER not me. That is a first step.

Second step, please do sit down with DH with notes and set out a plan that will make things better for you - and therefore hima nd you all as a family. You do have a right as his partner to set some groundrules. (My groundrule now is she doesn't babysit here as I can't cope with her going through my stuff). You need some groundrules to try to improve your situation and enable you and DH.

And draw back. Make excuses (period, flu, tummy troubles....) anything to avoid going................ I know I can cope with visiting about once a month. THEN I need a break. If you can build more space between meeting her, you have time to get over the last incident.

I hope you find some peace. I do understand what manipulation is like. Big hugs to you OP. x