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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

1000 replies

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 11/02/2014 17:30

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's February 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
Madonnaquintessential · 13/02/2014 20:06

Sorry for typos - bloody phone!! Grrr

DizzyKipper · 13/02/2014 20:49

No one should have a parent like that. It has made me think back to when we had a miscarriage, MIL tried to kill herself that very same night (she almost succeeded!). I'd never thought about it in this sort of light before, the always trying to make everything about herself though is eerily familiar. I wish I could say something to make it better Mishmash, and you Looking. Such horrible realisations to have to make, I wish neither of you had to.

Small, personal anecdote. I remember when I was about 12 or 13. Very depressed. For some reason decided to write "I wish I was dead" over and over on a piece of paper, which I then folded over and over again as tightly as I could making a wish each time I folded it. I then dutifully put it in my coat pocket and forgot about it. My mum found it later on and asked me about it. I told her it had been part of a dare and was no big deal. She accepted it and I heard no more about it. It took me years before I realised that I wasn't as fantastic a liar as I thought I was, she'd just turned a blind eye. She'd always turned a blind eye. I was suicidal and depressed, first tried to off myself at 9, again at 16, and she did nothing. Because it was easier to deal with that way. That was one of my realisations. They suck.

(fyi I also don't want to talk about this any more, and will resume focusing only on MIL).

Madonnaquintessential · 13/02/2014 20:53

Mommy do we have the same mil!? Haha. Looks like crazy is crazy. All the same arent they! Well me and my dh are arguing this pm. He is claiming he doesntknow how deeply i felt about his mothers behaviour. I did tell him repeatedly... I am genuinely worried we will split. I keep saying to him this is what his mother wants. I honestly belive he would end up at home with her, till she passes away, if we split. When we met he was 24 and still living with her, she must hate me doe taking her boy away! My own dm has pointed out how sick their rlship is. Mil is always single and treats dh as the man in her life (not sexually though) but my mum said she sees how much mil puts upon dh practically and emotionally. Its weird. I feel sorry for dh. Recently mil had to go to the shop and wanted dh to go with her as she cant take miney out a cashpoint without help! She often behaves in this childlike way, like dh is her man - her father... Its so weird. There are countless examples i could give of this. She always seems to go for married men who leave her- its like she never bothers with men cos she already has that fulfillment in my dh... Its really odd! Anyone else experience this?

Madonnaquintessential · 13/02/2014 20:58

Ps dizzy your mil doing that is beyond sick! Really feel for you there. So sorry to hear about that :(
My dm said she wanted to off herself once too, when me and my dh had a row. Again, makin it all about her. I thug consoled her throughout my argument with dh!? Insanity. When dh confeonted her on this she just said she gets very low and depressed ... No apology, no sign of getting help. Its absurd.

DizzyKipper · 13/02/2014 21:07

Yes that sounds very familiar Madonna! MIL had DH when she was 17, she's been married 3 times, currently divorced, has a knack for getting with unpleasant and abusive men - some who've hospitalised her. I do get the impression that DH is the 'man in her life', or was anyway - they're currently not speaking. I suspect this is partly why she hates me so much, she's no longer the woman in his and he's no longer at her beck and call whatever the time of day. He's actually grown up a bit and gotten a lot more healthy boundaries. DH is 8 years older than his sisters (they're twins), 5 years older than BIL, and he was essentially treated more like their father than their brother (from about the age of 10, when there stopped being any consistent male figure present). She used to ring him up to get him to tell them off, even when she was at uni she'd be ringing him up complaining about this or that they'd done and then putting them on the phone to him so he could give him what for.
She was treating him like a mouth piece, now that he has opinions of his own and says things to them unauthorised by her he's "judgemental". Pfft.

DizzyKipper · 13/02/2014 21:12

Oh and that wasn't the worst of it Madonna. When talking about it afterwards she told her daughters how she'd told them "this can't go on" (referring to them not helping out enough around the house and being moody teenagers). One of them was with her when she went into cardiac arrest, she almost died, and then she's talking to them as though it's all because they weren't doing enough chores. Head fuck? What sort of person does that to their daughters? Not that it's something they'll ever see, I'm not sure even DH has seen it, but I have. It's disgusting.

Madonnaquintessential · 13/02/2014 21:50

Omg to the cardiac arrest blame game... She sounds even worse than my mil... I didnt think this possible. It is frustrating how rhey never see it though - nor do their family ( as much as we do). My sil has threstened to hit me and all sorts because shes sticking up for her mum... Ha! I actually said to her that her mum is often at ours bemoaning sil and crying over her... But we dont phone sil and give her abuse about upsetting mil!? After that i havent heard from sil... Truth hurts i guess! She still seems to think me and dh the baddies though... Judging by the crap she put on fb ( lowlife chav!)

Mishmashfamily · 13/02/2014 22:05

Thanks dizzy and looking I've just been to a play my dn are in and was tearful they did a fab job!!

Yes quite dizzy I think I'll put my mother way for a while . This morning I took my granny a valentines rose and a box of cakes, I got one for mil (she is going through rough divorce ) too so dp wouldn't moan and I thought it would be a nice gesture.

I took it in work for her for a surprise and left before she could see me. I've had no acknowledgement, kiss my arse or nothing. Dp has seen her since and she did t even mention it.

I can bet £50 there will be a public announcement on facebook tomorrow . But none actually to me. Grin why do I expect anything more!

Rommell · 13/02/2014 22:29

Hello thread. I have seen your various incarnations cropping up on the boards and always been a bit drawn to it. I don't know if I really belong here though. My dad used to hit me - he only stopped doing it when I was 16 and hit him back. Then he chucked me out the house. He let me back in again, and then chucked me out a year later after I spent the night at a boyfriend's house. He was always very strict and both he and my mum were prone to histrionics if I stayed out late etc - I mean, stuff like telling me to scrub my skin to clean the dirt off it caused by me having sex (even though I hadn't). He had a job that he got really stressed by and we weren't allowed to make a lot of noise at home because it stopped him relaxing. He shouts at my son when we go to visit him. This is all a bit disjointed. My parents have had my son at theirs a few times over the years to help support me (I am a lone parent with a diagnosis (which I dispute) of bipolar disorder) but I can see how, even when I am there, my father shouts at him and ignores him, so I can't in all conscience send him there and haven't for some time. My mum is forever saying that they can have him but I just don't want him to go there on his own any more when I'm not there to protect him and stick up for him and I wish they had never looked after him but it started at a time when I was hospitalised and felt I had no other options. I am more stable now and can look after him myself. It just all feels a bit of a mess and I'm sorry for writing this post because reading back it looks like nonsense but I feel like I've failed my boy for putting him into that environment when I wasn't well and I would hate more than anything for him to end up like me.

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 13/02/2014 22:56

You're better now and you no longer let him go there alone. This is a fresh start. A time of realisation, as you start to unpick your childhood and realise how dysfunctional it was.

Your post made sense to me perfectly.

I'm a lone parent too and once or twice I've called on my mum to look after my kids in desperation. You were unwell. It couldn't be helped.

He won't end up like you, as you will protect him and parent him better than you were.

Please keep posting here. You're as welcome as everyone else.

OP posts:
Rommell · 13/02/2014 23:21

Thank you for your kind words, MomeRaths. It has been tricky making excuses to my mum about why he can't go there without me, and recently she said 'is it because of your dad?' and I was honest and said yes. It feels like something is being taken away from me, but really it's just the illusion of support that is gone. I just wish I wasn't a fuck up and that I could look after him properly myself. I do at least stand up for my son when my dad has a go at him while we are visiting. Christ I can't believe I've typed that as though it were something to be proud of; it should just be normal. They want us to visit more though. I don't want to do this.

birdmomma · 14/02/2014 03:53

Fog - I'm jealous of your therapist. Your Dad sounds so much like mine. I have had 2 counselling sessions recently, but I'm not going to anymore. The scented candle was overpowering, and there were crystals and rainbow pictures, which all made me feel a bit eww.

My Dad was way too open about sex. I first found porn magazines when I was about 4 years old. Then I found a video cover with graphic images of an orgy when I was about sex (on a high shelf in the larder, but as I was frequently left alone for hours as a child I knew every nook and cranny of the house!). He had noisy sex with a variety of very young women (16) in the bedroom next door, including the lodger, who hated me.

Then when I left home, he started seeing a 17 year old who he later married (and divorced, and married again), and told me about what lubrication he used. FFS, this isn't normal is it? I've been thinking I've been over-reacting recently, but seriously it's so fucked up.

Should we feel sorry for people with personality disorders? After all, the literature seems to say they have no insight and can't change. Should I be angry with him, or feel sorry for him?

birdmomma · 14/02/2014 03:54

six not sex - haha Freudian.

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 14/02/2014 07:57

Birdmomma I think you're entitled to feel whatever you do. How he behaved was completely inappropriate. Personally I feel neither anger or sorry for my Dad. I feel this sad resigned acceptance that I have to keep at arms lengths away from him. But when my Mum starts trying to push me to play happy families, then anger comes to the surface. But I guess you can't be angry all the time, it's exhausting.

I do find I get jealous of others who have good relationships with their Dads or who have grandparents who look after their gcs often and well. It rises up in me when I see it. I then squash it down again Sad. I'd love to have that support as a lone parent, instead of paying childminders or babysitters whenever I need to go anywhere and because it's good for children to have loving family relationships if they can.

Rommell are you getting any support such as counselling or medication? You need to look after you, so you can be the best Mum you can.

It takes time to wake up to how toxic your family is and you have. It hurts, and taking steps to go low or no contact is so hard. I think we all used to make excuses for our families. I know I certainly did. I used to make sure I was there to protect my kids. It is wrong. It is screwed up. You're not alone on here.

OP posts:
LookingThroughTheFog · 14/02/2014 08:24

Hi Rommell. Hugs to you. With your son, focus on the now, and not on what has gone before. You know what he needs now and that's what you're going to provide him was.

Mommy, my therapist rocks; seriously rocks. There are no candles, we're in a calm room in a hospital without any hippy stuff in it, talking about things clinically and logically. That's not to say it's not hard. The previous two weeks have been excruciating while we examined what my pain felt like; half an hour of me holding myself in that pain and describing it. Useful, but knackering - it knocked me out until about Sunday. This week's was a lot easier, and it was more reflection than feeling.

Anyhow;

Should I be angry with him, or feel sorry for him?

Feel what you feel. There is no right or wrong.

For what it's worth, I feel both for Dad. I am angry with him, and I'm getting a lot better at being angry with him and not angry with me. In that sense, the anger is good. I've spent so long blaming myself, wanting to shake the child I was for not being good enough for him. It's been hugely destructive. All the mis-channelled anger has been firing out left right and centre, and non of it going to Dad who I still have an overwhelming instinct to protect.

So in that sense, the anger is healthy.

But I also have started to feel sorry for him. Well, not so much him, but the whole 'narc' group. This is a bunch of people who are incapable of feeling happy unless it's at the expense of other people. Their only point of reference to feel good is to make someone else feel bad. To suck all the joy and strength from other people. Even with the hypochondria thing; their ability to feel happy relies on other people feeling sorry for them, and ideally, being made uncomfortable. They require the balance of power in a relationship to be tipped their way, and all their transactions are based on this. They can't feel joy if other people are feeling joy and can't relate to pain unless they've had it worse.

When you think of it in that light; how sad an existence is that? Not being happy for someone else? Not being comfortable and proud about yourself so having to bring everyone else down?

I have narc tendencies I know, but I think the thing that keeps me out of this group is that; I feel happy when other people feel happy. It does not shake my sense of being. It doesn't spark destructive jealousy. I'm working on the other narc attributes (hypochondria being one, needing to be brilliant and going all out for that is another. I'm a praise-whore; I don't feel like I exist if people aren't praising me constantly. It's exhausting, to be honest and needs resolution.) I suppose that's the other thing about me; I am aware that these characteristics exist in me, and I want to do something about them. The narc cannot see their own weaknesses.

So in that sense, I'm a lot better off than Dad. I have the capacity for happiness and love, and I have the capacity to change.

HesterShaw · 14/02/2014 09:26

Fog, sister and I were having the conversation about have we inherited her characteristics etc the other day. We concluded that awareness is everything. If you havea narcissistic characteristic but you are fully aware of it as a fault, then the can work on it. From what I gather they have no awareness whatsoever.

Meerka · 14/02/2014 10:21

I have that fear too, deeply since the awful female relative and I were apparently very similar when we were both age 18 (quite a lot of years between us though).

I jsut have to hope that sticking the intense and difficult therapy out will have made the difference. I -think- so but ... have to watch myself for similar behaviour all the time becuase I know it lies within me to be the same as she was,

LookingThroughTheFog · 14/02/2014 10:35

Oh, the 'you're just like your father!' complaint still makes me shudder.

And actually, now I'm angry about that. She chose him; she stayed with him, she allowed him so much influence over us. And then to get cross that we turn out like him?

Grrr.

LookingThroughTheFog · 14/02/2014 12:25

Also, can I just say if anyone is looking for therapy, CAT therapy is amazing. It's more in depth than CBT (which always felt like a sticking plaster over a gaping wound), it's full of psychotherapy, transactional analysis, looking at your past, examining feelings and links and so forth.

It also follows a timetable; it's standard to have between 16 and 24 sessions, so you're working towards a specific end, and the things you go through each week are basically set out at the beginning (with wiggle room for if some things take longer and so forth.) With other therapies, (I've had 4 lots at this point), I've always felt that what we were going through was good, but also quite wooly. There was no structure to the therapy as a whole.

I get the sense (though I couldn't guarantee it) that the therapist has a psychology degree rather than qualifications in counselling. I might ask her next time I see her.

I would strongly recommend it to anyone.

DizzyKipper · 14/02/2014 12:27

I'll keep that in mind for DH thanks Looking (he's said no but I still think it could be useful). What does CAT actually stand for?

LookingThroughTheFog · 14/02/2014 12:29

Cognative Analytical Therapy.

There's a book all about it (which costs a flippin' fortune) here...

ChangefortheBetter

horsetowater · 14/02/2014 13:53

Hello everyone, I don't generally post here but I thought you might find this interesting.

These results suggest that emotionally abused people consider all the various facial expressions as threatening, regardless of the expression.

www.socialsciences.leiden.edu/psychology/research/news/verbal-abuse-does-hurt.html

It explains how neurological damage occurs, effectively, when your parents treat you badly. It probably also explains why people that are damaged go on to damage others because they are more likely to see them as a threat.

What do you think?

LookingThroughTheFog · 14/02/2014 14:22

Horse, my therapist asked me to imagine looking into the seven year old me's eyes, and what would I tell her and what would she hear.

I told her she'd be terrified, because people only look at that child when they're angry. I still struggle to hold any kind of eye contact today.

I didn't even realise until I said it - that child would not want anyone looking into her eyes.

Mishmashfamily · 14/02/2014 14:25

Flowers looking

wontletmesignin · 14/02/2014 14:35

Something has just dawned on me and i feel awful!

My mother treat me badly as a child, and an adult. I stood up to her last year and demanded answers. I didnt get any.
Anyway, during this time, i was also dealing with EA from ex. He was pushing me to confront them, and when i did he had a go at me for doing so.

So my mind was everywhere. My sister was supporting me through this the best she could.

My mam has recently been diagnosed with incurable breast cancer and she has turned on my DF. I think this is because i have been standing up for myself.
My sister, who supported me, has been to see her a couple of times. Everytime she goes, she very rarely takes her dc and her dp will no longer step foot in my dp house.

I think this is all down to me and im currently feeling quite bad about it.
Which is quite frustrating, as deep down i know i didnt ask to be treat that way and for it to cause problems in my adult years. But i did choose to speak to my sister and bil about it.

I feel i should have just kept my mouth shut and let it all stay under the carpet. But then, wouldnt i still be getting abuse from her.
Even then, because im no longer getting abuse, my DF is. Again...all because i opened my mouth

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