"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's February 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Before DD was born I was also told that MIL would be having her stay over her's once a month (her and SIL1 "decided" this and were just letting us know). Fat chance!

Everything you have said is my MIL.

When i first had PND (i had no idea at this point). We took dd1 up to her house. I hadn't been in a while as well, id not long had a baby.
I stated to Dh that i didnt want her dogs in the same room as dd.
Anyway. We went up. As soon as i walked in the door she snatched dd off me. Let the dogs in from the kitchen and said "she loves the dogs" and i kid you not, she smirked straight at me.
DH had obviously spoke to her and she ignored him. Her house her rules.

I thought it was all in my head and i questioned my own sanity. Did she just smirk at me?!
She then told me off for picking up my daughter when she had just woken up.

I broke down in the car to DH. It all came out. A few more things with her happened and i ended up on ADs.
We was due to go up the day i went to the docs and i said i didnt feel like it, i just wanted to stay at home with DD and DH. He texted his mom and she just said "well cant you just leave bird at home and you and dd come"
She honestly didnt care a single bit about me. I was just the oven.

Im so angry she influenced me so much. She made my life miserable for so many years.

Go with your gut. Its allways right.
Its so hard to come to terms with when its not our "own" family. Its like you're on the outside looking in. Everyone is acting like its normal when its really not.

She also told people about a personal medical procedure i had to have done. In detail to people i dont really know. They mentioned it in normal converstion like it was publuc knowledge and told me MIl had announced it in front of alot of people. I was mortified!! DH was fuming. She denied even saying it!!

Is this a common theme of these sorts of people? My mother absolutely LOVES talking about people's health and has no conception at all that they might not want to be gossiped about. My sister's friend got to 18 (the mothers were good friends) and it became clear that things weren't developing as they should. Mother thought thought it was her business! She exclaimed gleefully to be "OH have you heard about poor old X!" as though it was a delightful morsel of gossip. She said "Oh I must ring Jane about Sarah's scan!"* as though she was a kind thoughtful friend. So many things. She tells everyone when she's had a intimate medical procedure as well, as though she thinks everyone else is just as delighted to know about other people's health issues as she herself is. Even when I was little this kind of thing really turned my stomach, so much so that I was always completely unwilling to let her know if I had an issue myself. I didn't trust her not to tell everyone she knew. Privacy isn't a word she understands. Not long ago she said to me (of a girl I had been friends with when I was little, whose mum she remains in contact with) "Oh did you hear. "So and so" has found a lump in her breast!" I told her I thought that was pretty awful behaviour and I'm pretty sure that "so and so" wouldn't want her broadcasting that piece of information. She couldn't understand my point at all. We had a major disagreement over it. She kept bleating "But you're friends." No we were friends 25 years ago, Mother.

*Names have been changed obviously :o

I think it comes down to other people and their wants are secondary to their personal satisfaction.

madonna, attilla is so right. Someone who is toxic in this situation is toxic all the way along the line. It's also harder on your daughter if she gets attached to her MIL and then you have to cut contact later.

It has to got to be really hard if you're only in your 20's. I know I was unable to let contact go at that age, no matter how sensible it would have been ... well with one parent, the other was violent towards me to it was fairly easy to walk away.

But you are entitled to be treated with respect by her, and if she cannot give you that, -and if she's actively trying to split you and husband up fgs!!- then something is seriously wrong and it doesnt sound like she will fix it. And it does lie with her.

Is your husband supportive here?

firsttimer,l there is a wonderful Christian site that was linked here once that has a wise and very humanitarian approach to abusive parents / others. Its essence was that you forgive when you can, and when you have forgiven, there is no obligation to walk back into an abusive situation. None at all.

from Paul: "children, honour thy father and mother. Parents, drive not thy children to distractoin".

I hope you're ok, dizzy and mommy and beth

This is fab. How alike are they all!?

It really made me a laugh a few weeks after as she'd stopped talking to someone for talking about HER buisness.

That wasn't her buiness really.
MIL has told a lie to person A.
Person A mentioned something to person B and the lie came out.
Person B then went and told MIL what a lie she had told.
MIL then stopped talking to person A because she didnt want her buisness being spoke about.

MIl made out her job role was alot more important than person bs. Basically she was supirior to her. When infact they have the same job role.

So if MIL hadn't of told the lie. Nothing would of happened.

its a funny thing isnt it mommy. Normal or loving families have people who are genuinely interested in others, in each other, and who give freely and without strings. Arguments tend not to linger on forever.

Dysfunctional families / people .... they are unable to see beyond themselves. Really unable. Not 'don't want to'.... can't. Gifts come with strings and it's often all about them. The fallout from arguments last forever. They're often characterized by need to control others and by manipulation one way or another. They really are all similar.

People from normal families have such difficulty understanding this very different / alien mindset, which is why I think the toxic people get away with so much for so very long. Its so hard to firstly see what's going on and then to accept that toxic people very rarely change. Occasionally, but only very rarely.

But MommyBird don't you know, it's completely different, it's not even the same situation at all, she was being really unfair talking about your MIL's business! God, it's enough to make you laugh isn't it?

I'm fresh from therapy, and it was a great session. It was interesting, because the therapist mentioned Narcisistic Personality Disorder, and it was the first time someone else has suggested this about Dad. Occasionally I read this page and feel like a fraud, as Dad doesn't seem nearly so bad as some other parents. But then, I suppose we all think that.

Also, things I've said here that feel 'normal' to me, seem to shock other people. Like, for example, he slaughtered and fed us our pet chickens (they were pets, named, and we kept them for eggs) then laughing at our upset when he told us mid meal (then refusing to let us leave any as it was wastage).

You see, that doesn't seem that bad to me, because it was just part and parcel of who he is. It's what he's like.

Anyhow, moving on to other things, we discussed the following things, and so it's interesting to see them written here by other people.

They really don't get boundaries do they?

The discussion we have is that the relationship between Narc and other is fused. They see their child as an extension of themselves and not as another human being in their own right.

It was fine (in his mind, not in real life) for Dad to tell me his sexual preferences because I am a part of him, and there's no reason to assume that my sexual preferences would be different to his. He controlled this aspect of me, and why wouldn't he? I was just an extra part of him.

He was genuinely bewildered and hurt that I didn't vote UKIP like him. Why on earth would I need my own political ideals?

so i think i am awful and believe her BS she says.

I could control being awful. If I am awful, then I can improve and maybe, maybe gain their love and respect. That's what now feels safe - I am the bad person because there's this glowing, shiny brilliant person who is clearly amazing. That's now my default for any relationships - I am bad, and must do more to please the other so that they like me.

That's how the narc relationship survives; the Awesome person continues to believe they're awesome because the Other hears, then starts to believe that they're bad. If the Other suddenly starts to believe in themself, and think that maybe they're not bad after all, then the Narc is left in the precarious position of perhaps not being amazing. So they'll reiterate the position that the Other is bad, and therefore they are good.

Oh, and the 'it's different if it's them' thing. Dad once slapped me for opening a letter from school that was addressed to my parents. In my defence, about half the class had them, and they were detailing the awards we'd won that were going to be handed out in the awards ceremony. The teacher told us what they were, and everyone else in the room opened theirs, and I wanted to see what I'd won (community spirit, fact fans).

Dad slapped me for opening his letter that detailed my achievements. (I should have said that Mum opened it - she'd have covered for me, but I didn't think and was excited about my award.)

A few months later and I was away from home when my GCSEs were sent to me. They were addressed to me - they were my results.

Yep, you guessed it - he opened them. It was fine to do that apparently.

I'm getting angry with him now. Angry is good.

The discussion we have is that the relationship between Narc and other is fused. They see their child as an extension of themselves and not as another human being in their own right.

That is so spot on! When DH had a falling out with my sister (3 weeks before our wedding, dad dying in hospital, sister begun it by saying how awful she thought DH was) DH vented to MIL and made her promise to keep quiet. Within 4 hours she sent my sister an awful email, which would have been a tirade of abuse knowing her. At the time we were trying to cool things down - my dad was seriously ill in hospital, it wasn't the time for family feuds and for his sake we were trying to get things resolved. MIL has never, ever accepted she did anything wrong by getting involved and escalating the feud. The fact that she promised to keep quiet means nothing, DH is her son and so she had every right to get angry and blow off at my sister. She's never thought for a moment that we could have been thinking about anyone other than ourselves, I mean why would she, she doesn't! She just doesn't get that DH had the right to deal with it as he saw fit, she doesn't get that he is genuinely angry that she broke his trust and tried to fight his battles for him as though he was a child. She thinks it's all me! She just doesn't get that him being her son doesn't give her cart blanche to act and do what she wants so long as she's decided he's acting in is best interests - what he thinks are his best interests apparently mean nothing!
3 years on and she still brings this up mid-fight, she evem did last time. She thinks he should be grateful.

God that is so awful Looking, I'm angry for you too. It's just disgusting, they don't think about anyone but themselves do they?

Fog he sounds horrible
Glad you've had counselling and see that the way he has treated you is not normal.
Regarding the chickens, thats vile. They were pets. Doesnt matter if it was a Chicken or a Cat. Pets are pets.

Dizzy! Exactly!
She didnt care she had just done the exact same thing to me!
She also said the reason i was so thin was because i had an eating disorder. I had pnd. I couldnt keep the weight on. She doesnt know i know about that. Whats the point? She'll deny it anyway. We cut contact for that reason. It was the straw that broke the camels back tbh.

To be fair, Dad does sometimes think of me. In a 'what can I use her for?' sort of way.

I've had some (limited) success in a field he's interested in. The last few times we've spoken (not for nearly a year now), he's mentioned this, and called me mean for not giving him a hand up.

It's annoying, because if I get actually successful in this field, I know he'll suddenly be sniffing around, expecting to bask in the glow of my success.

Anyhow, my fantasy conversation with him today is imagining him calling me to ask me to attend his mother's funeral, which will happen when she finally dies. I will not go. Again, last time we spoke, he mentioned in passing that I'm getting money in her will, so I might want to rethink my not seeing her thing. I did not and will not go. He will threaten not to give me the money if I don't go; I don't care - I don't want it; I won't go.

I imagine myself getting his; 'I'm very disappointed in you,' spiel. I am actually looking forward to saying; 'Well I'm very proud of myself, and that's good enough for me.'

It was fine (in his mind, not in real life) for Dad to tell me his sexual preferences because I am a part of him, and there's no reason to assume that my sexual preferences would be different to his. He controlled this aspect of me, and why wouldn't he? I was just an extra part of him

^^^^^
Wow! looking My mother did this. I was house sitting while she went away and before she left she shown me where all her 'toys' were kept if myself and exp wanted to use them. I'd forgot all about that.

Oh God, whatever you do do not give him any hand up or way in which he will suddenly become closer to you (personally or professionally). I know you know this already, I just really felt like I had to say it anyway. It doesn't even bare thinking about! I love your line as well.

Crikey, I really never considered other people might be as inappropriate as MIL sex wise. I guess she thought she was being thoughtful and a lovely person mishmash

Also feel angry for you.
He sounds very underminding and cruel.

Its not ok fot you to do that. But it is for him.

Hate that.

Oh. And the sex thing.

MIL aslo does this. She talks about sex regarding her and FIL and what hes been like in bed.
Also DH was a msitake. It was her first time having sex and DH was the result.

Why do i know this?!

Oh God, that's grim, Mishmash!

Mine was much more 'foreplay is great - the only good thing about sex. Penetration is horrible, you won't like it. A man can't rape his wife; it's impossible. You have to do what he wants, and you won't like it.'

Not all at once - it was over a series of conversations, often when we were alone, walking the dog in the woods. (Oh, he killed the dog too, in a fit of pique at my mother.)

The expectation from him was that I would stay chaste until I was married (on account of how awful sex is), and then I would give myself willingly to my husband.

Oh, and I would not be gay; that is disgusting and wrong.

It hasn't been until very recently that I've started realising how invasive and controlling these conversations were. And how they've influenced and affected my sex life. I don't feel comfortable at all during sex - my first experiences were awful (because I must do what the man wants), and that cemented the whole 'sex is awful and wrong' thing in me. My body fought the man off, making it painful and, to be frank, terrifying, but I was convinced that I MUST NOT SAY NO! That would be dreadful.

It's been an uphill struggle to overcome this, and I'm not there yet. I think I probably will be at some point, now I'm addressing lots of the things that he said when I was small, but it will take a long time.

Fortunately I'm with a thoroughly decent guy who's not pushing me or rushing me in any way, and who understands I've got a lot of baggage to work through in this area.

I actually know the day MIL conceived DH, it's what normal people talk about...

(I have to admit, I talk to MIL about sex - but we're friends and get on, and I don't discuss her son and so forth. It's very much a conversation of equals and not a list of commands.)

I think it's ok when you're comfortable talking about it with the other person and they feel comfortable with it as well, it's mutual and respectful then. MIL seems to do it to show how cool she is or something, or for laughs.

(Oh, lord - look at me, talking about sex during a conversation about how it's not always appropriate to talk about sex! I'm sorry, guys! I'm just not normal in these things. I struggle to know what's appropriate and what's not, because I've had a lifetime of inappropriate and no other point of reference.)