"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's February 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

I recognise your tale of woe Boomerang - i have nc with parents, but I used to have to sit and listen to the MIL endlessly rant about the appalling FIL. Every time we were sat of an evening with a drink off she would go, reliving every single thing wrong with him, his abuses (he was abusive) but, its total self-indulgence, as noone else wants to hear it, it happened decades ago, and its frankly just very uncomfortable, especially as her partner and mine would have to sit through it again and again.

Its good to know some managing tactics to keep things under control for you.

So ... is there a gransnet on here? or somewhere, can anyone help me out with this, or was that a joke?

Gransnet does exist and is on the "In the Club" section on the MN Talk Pages of this very website.

Are we allowed to stage a MN invasion? :-)

Sooooo tired of toxic behaviour from not-so-DM....and the manipulative cahoots with Golden-child not-so-DB...sick of them...they deserve each other...and they're welcome to each other.
Heartily wish I didn't even know them.
That is all.
Thank you, just needed to vent.

I was looking at AIBU thread on the website www.gransnet.com/forums not the one on here.

thanks Attilla and Boomerang

yes, Hissy I am preparing for invasion, if you want to join!

bit worried that I might undo some of my good work from insights into the 'other side', but it sounds useful if its all there seemingly laid bare.

im having a look at that site boomerang, mostly at the AIBU families threads, and it's nice to see it from the other side. One or two grans seem crazed-controlling but a lot are more sensible. Only just scratched the surface so far though :)

I have seen in the news that it will soon be a criminal offence, punishable by prison, for parents to emotionally abuse their children.

Will this be applied retrospectively? I wouldn't bother myself but some posters might wish to go down this avenue I suppose?

God it would so be worth it though to see the bitch carted off to prison!!!

Yes, I heard that Hampton.

I just peeked at the site too.... something struck me "give them the pleasure of knowing that they are hurting us!"

I don't think so really atall. It takes quite something else to be a child of this and actually get pleasure from the parents' hurt. Perhaps they would gain valuable insights from invading us on here to see the angst that is endured in trying to go NC, and how worried many/most/all are about the pain this will cause them, being used to as we are preventing them feeling the pain and takng that ourselves instead.

Maybe the pages I looked at perhaps didn't give a full flavour of the intent of the thread, but that remark went unchallenged and that was quite a something to say.

I don't have that kind of feeling towards them. I don't think I have any feeling towards them now.

I suppose it wasn't illegal when they did it to us but maybe in 20 years or so there will be cases?

fairyfi i do think that some children can actually be as awful as some parents are .. some parents don't deserve the shit that comes their way.

Fairy,

That phrase stood out to me too. What struck me were things like:

Referring to people as 'nice daughter' to the one that they were talking to or 'nasty SIL or daughter/insert relative' - surely it can't be this simplistic?

Referring to GC as 'my or mine' like they were a possession. It just seemed like they were completely cutting out their parent from the equation.

Meerka- I think it's a very very small minority of people who would take any pleasure in going NC with their parent/s. Also it would be rare for a 'child' to deliberately act in an awful way towards their parent completely out of the blue, I would think any kind of behaviour like this would stem from damage or conflict rooted in their childhood.

Just to elaborate, when I say awful behaviour I mean inflicting deliberate emotional damage on their parent rather just behaving like a little so and so!

Agreed it's rare too for children to reject / cut off from their parents like we've had to!

Just sayin' it happens now and then.

Generally there must be some almighty resentment / hate to take pleasure in hurting someone else ... or a tendancy to malice. Or the poster is kind of unpleasant and enjoys hurting people, and assumes that other people are the same as them.

Maybe it just -feels- like the other person is taking pleasure in hurting them.

Im rambling arent i .... without even the benefit of a glass of

LOL! Not rambling meerka just pontificating! A glass of sounds fab! Have one for me as I'm heavily pregnant so can't at the moment ...mmmmm wine!

that's why Im not having one either!

4 mroe weeks max then damn, I'll be having some. Friends have been asked to turn up in the hospital here with a huge box of sushi and some sparkly :D Ill raise a glass to you and the rest of the Stately Homes people!

Hello, please can I join the thread?

I feel like the scales have fallen from my eyes over the past few months and I think I may have a narcissistic mother. I feel like such a sap. I've name changed.

of course, welcome contingent. Care to say more? what brought on the scale-shedding?

Thanks Meerka.

Over the past year, my mum has become more and more spiteful, sulky and irrational. It culminated in a series of rows, the worst having happened since a disastrous Christmas hosted by me and my DH, to whom I'm happily married. It was that which caused the scales to fall from my eyes and led me to tell her that I wasn't putting up with her behaviour any more.

I am 42! Why did I not wake up to what was happening before now?

I realised that no normal mother says the following things to her daughter:

"You're going to end up with nobody. On your own." (When I told her that I wasn't prepared to put up with her behaviour, or that of my sister, her ally).

"You're wicked and horrible" (when I told her that she had a choice: either to stop sulking or for me to cut a visit short and go home)

"You're going to give me a heart attack. And your father. We'll both have a heart attack, because of you" (when I said that her behaviour had to change)

"You say these things and I don't believe them. You've just made it up. I never said that." (When I pointed out some of the remarks she'd made recently that I didn't want her to make again)

"You'll be sorry when I'm dead"

When I was younger, she said these things:

"Everyone at school is laughing at you. You haven't got any friends. You'd better make some" (over, of all things, the fact that I'd lent a classmate a fancy pencil and she'd lost it. I was 12!)

"You're a natural victim" (I was 13)

"You'll make me have a stroke if you don't stop being like this. Your granddad had a stroke and he was stuck in that chair for 15 years. Do you want that to happen to me?" (I was 14, and the 'being like this' was worrying that nobody at school liked me. Who could have planted that seed, I wonder?)

She would also make little digs and follow it with HA HA HA! as if it were all a great joke. Example, when seeing me eating chocolate that she'd bought for me when I was aged about 17 (and pin thin): "I'd have too much respect for my figure and my skin to eat that". My mum has never been smaller than a size 18.

On the other hand, she's always been a very solicitous and affectionate mother, and both she and my dad (passive, never challenges her, anything for a quiet life) have always been generous. I always got to go on the school ski trips - think that's the stately home equivalent! - and when she's nice, she's lovely.

However, when she turns on me she's awful - screaming, sulking, saying spiteful things (see above). I used to be terrified of her, and would have done anything to make it stop. Before I was married, I would go home for Christmas every year (I left home for university aged 18) and although it would be lovely at first I'd be counting down the days with dread until she lost it and had a go at me. Usually it would be because I wasn't smiling enough or something, which caused her to worry and be at risk of a stroke or nervous breakdown etc etc.

She and my younger sister have rather ganged up on me - they immediately take each other's side and if I have a difficult time with one, the other, knowing nothing about what happened, immediately comes out in sympathy and starts sulking with me too. Because I must be the villain. My sister is a carbon copy of my mother and has a vested interest in being on her right side; she's a single mum of two and relies on them.

They both dislike my husband, and they make it obvious. At Christmas, they were both awful to him and me despite our having run ourselves ragged to make it nice for them. I've been very generous financially to my sister, and with my time, but it just seems to make her hate me more. It doesn't take much to set her off.

I can't reconcile my mum's warm, affectionate side with her bitter, controlling side, of which I've seen too much lately and which I'm learning to stand up to.

Are all families like this? I'm worried that I'm overreacting. I'm too much of a people pleaser, I know that, which has led me to put up with bad behaviour from friends and boyfriends in the past. Not sure whether I have unrealistic expectations.

Contingent did you post about your sister and all the help etc you've given her before? If so, I remember a bit of your story.

On that thread there was a theory explored that the NICER we are, the MORE they resent and hate us.

Is this a 'normal' family? NO! Far from it. Focus on those that make you happy, that support your family unit and those that make life better.

Your dm and sis are NOT worth your time/effort, leave them to it. Allowing them access to you and your family will only harm you, so minimise their presence in your lives.

Hi Contingent,

It is NOT your fault they are this way; you did not cause this to arise.

No, not all families act like this at all and no you are not overreacting in the slightest.

Families that are deeply dysfunctional and emotionally unhealthy act in all the ways you describe in your post; none of that would have happened in an emotionally healthy family unit. Your narcissistic mother taught you how to people please and serve her at great cost to yourself.

How do you see things going forward with regards to them?.

I would seriously consider completely detaching from them all as of now, including your dad who has acted as a bystander in this overall dysfunction, and live life without them in it. No more handing cash over to your sister for a start; that is a boundary you can start with.

You do not need their rubbish and nor does your DH. People from such families end up playing roles; you are the scapegoat and your sister is the golden child. That is also a role not without price but your sister is completely unaware of that. Your mother needed a willing enabler too to help her and she found that in your dad; he being weak also failed to protect you from your mother's mad outbursts. Also he has acted out of self preservation and want of a quiet life like many such bystanders do.

I would also suggest you read "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown.

I struggle to see how children [adults] actually reject their own parents. Undoubtedly some people can be appalling to their parents and do all the blaming and are spoilt and trample all over them, but I think that going nc is such a hard hard thing to do that there must be significant problem to consider this.

I also noticed whilst on the other site that thing about 'my' DGC. It sounded really unhealthy, implying these DGC were their own DC? thats sad, and does sound typical narc behaviour?

Contingent sorry to hear of their behaviour, its awful. There's such a strong thread through all the quotes you made, of the poor us and the harm you cause us, etc. Everything you do being wrong. Sadly, this dynamic only works all the time you are prepared to accept that you are the wrong one, and tpically what the children (us) end up feeling is that we are somehow very flawed and getting it wrong all the time, leading you to think you are the problem rather than your family.

Not all families are this way atall.

contingent she sounds awful. Worst for the nasty-then-nice approach, you don't know where you stand! The emotional blackmail about making her ill is just unforgiveable. What a terrible thing to do to a child.

Agreed that the best way for now is to step back from yoru mother and your sister. Therapy, skilled therapy with a counsellor you click with, might also help.

some people find that after some years no contact, they are in a different place and can have limited contact with their parents. If they have stepped back far enough to allow the wounds to heal and if they have detached enough that the nastiness no longer affects them, same as the nastiness of an unhinged stranger doesn't really affect you. But that seems only to happen after really healing.

Regarding your sister, you can't buy her genuine affection with either time or money. She dislikes / uses you. Again, it's a really good thing that you're standing up to her.

I would find the nastiness towards your husband the worst thing. I think you'd be well within your rights to say 'no more of that' and that you can't be touch if they are going to be so nasty. It is really hard to do, going NC, so you could go low contact at first and then see how you feel, and either keep phase out all contact (which shoudl be easy enough if you keep laying down firm boundaries like don't be nasty about my husband, because they'll hate that) or stay LC.

the two faces of the narc is a huge obstacle to moving on from them I found. They do their utmost to convince that its only you that are the sole reason for any of their sufferings and are cruel and vindictive and unrelenting, and yet, when they turn their face to others, they are all smiles and nicey nicey. Even my youngest has noticed, having not had to grow up with that, she said recently 'she's all nicey nicey but actually she's a complete cow!' ha ha! this is so true, and I couldn't have said it better, but when you grow up with it you take it on, because they blame you and you believe your parents over yourself as children.

One of the things I hate most about Mumsnet is people who ask for help and never come back and update. Well I'm updating after, ahem, 2.5 years. Sorry about that.

I posted on Stately Homes for help when pregnant in 2011. I've been my mother's scapegoat all my life, she finds me beneath contempt and wonders why everyone doesn't hate me. My brother has exploited his Golden Child status to the max, and liked to get my mother to turn on me for amusement. I was pregnant with a boy and totally devastated, to the point where I think if I'd miscarried I would have been relieved.

I had an insane longing for a girl, to 'put right' the mother/daughter relationship I didn't have, and I was also revolted by the thought of a boy as the only male child I'd known was my repellant brother. Additionally I was also being treated particularly badly by my mother during the pregnancy, and generally having a terrible time. I think now I was suffering from depression, but while everyone knows about PND, I think the issue of pre-natal depression isn't widely accepted and discussed.

However you lovely vipers were totally understanding of my situation, didn't slap me down for my gigantic gender disappointment, and gave me huge encouragement around good parenting after being brought up by dreadful parents. I'd like to say that things went swimmingly after that, but no. I struggled through the rest of the pregnancy, had a terrible birth and then failed to bond, probably as a result. I also ended up with a severe birth injury which is still causing problems. I'd distanced myself from my mother over the years before and she seized the pregnancy as an opportunity to get her claws back in. She was dreadful.

But two years on from birth I've got there. My DS is fantastic (he's like his dad). I love him so much. He's happy go lucky, always smiling, loves hugs, toy trains, wearing his potty on his head, and is completely content. He doesn't appear to be affected by the fact I did the first nine months of his life on autopilot. Also, I can never imagine treating him as I've been treated and think I'm doing OK so far as a parent, with a few wobbles here and there. My mother has been put back in her box and contact kept to a minimum. I still have the occasional 'down' day, but I am so much better than I was when I posted on here for help and received it in spades.

So ladies of Stately Homes, thank you for being wonderful.