DH and poker

[needlesswidow]

DH plays a lot of poker. Bordering on semi-professional, he has a winning record. I know this as I see our bank statements. I see what he withdraws at the beginning of an evening and what he puts back in at the end of the evening.

We have both enjoyed a more comfortable life from some of the extra cash he has brought in, which is like a third salary.

When we were first together he played poker a lot, I assumed it was just a hobby that he played with friends, but since we moved in together and subsequently got married I realised that it is in a professional context with strangers at a card room in London. I have visited him and watched some of his games and they are quite formal with high stakes.

I have a problem dealing with it and I'm not totally sure why. Sometimes DH can spend all night playing. He can leave the house at 5pm after work, and not get back til 5am. Often he has to work the next day and becomes exhausted, moody and unavailable.

When he wins he is happy, but the occasional time that he loses he gets very angry and takes it out on everyone around him. DH is on holiday from work at the moment, but for three nights now he has been out all night playing. He suffered a loss the first night and came back at 6am very angry. He said that I had caused him stress during the day and he had not gone to poker in the right mood. He compared himself to a professional athlete and said that the spouses of professional athletes have to be careful not to upset them before a game because the stakes are so high. He also says that he needs to retain testosterone because it makes him more aggressive during the game, and so refuses to have sex when he goes.

On average he goes three times a week, but recently due to his holiday it's been quite intense.

The reason he feels I upset him was because I had complained to him about something in the house - not doing the housework - and we had a bit of bickering before he left for the card room.

But to be blamed for him losing I think is outrageous. He is a grown man making his own decisions, I have not cost him a loss by communicating with him like any other DW to her DH.

Does his anger when he loses point towards the fact he could be addicted? Whenever I bring up the possibility of an addiction he gets extremely upset and angry with me. And he reminds me how much I enjoy the life his extra earnings afford us. (He made about £70K tax free from playing poker last year and it has helped us hugely with the mortgage and looking after both of our ill parents.)

We are TTC at the moment and I have been using OPKs. According to the OPKs, tonight is the night. I've told him, but he's not coming home to DTD.

AIBU or is he BU?

What should I do?

Arf at comparing himself to a professional athlete < twat >

Cognito, I don't disagree with that for a moment. I think we're all agreed that he is behaving like a knob and that's not okay. Question is, is his behaving like a knob inextricably linked with his poker playing? If so, can the OP live with it and is it a good idea to have a baby? If not, will the OP be happy for him to carry on playing poker if he is not being a knob? And if he stopped playing poker, would he still be a knob? (I suspect the last is true.)

"He also says that he needs to retain testosterone because it makes him more aggressive during the game, and so refuses to have sex when he goes."

BTW.... he's shagging someone at these tournaments. Retaining testosterone my arse.

I kinda get it but it is obviously difficult for him to mix poker and a normal family life and this is the issue here.
While comparing himself to an athlete and the thing about testosterone looks and sounds way out there, I don't think it is. Proffessionals in all walks of life Athletes, racing drivers, sugeons, solicitors cannot be at their best after a disagreement with their spouse.
I certainly wouldn't want anyone working for me if they were not on their 'game'
Like it or not, earning 70k a year is proffessional.
I think the issue here is juggling work, poker and a family life. one of them will need to give at some point.

Proffessionals in all walks of life Athletes, racing drivers, sugeons, solicitors cannot be at their best after a disagreement with their spouse

They need to learn to compartmentalise then.

The testosterone bit is simply cack.

These are really insightful replies, thank you very much. Both the positive and negative ones.

I agree that having a baby now does not seem like a good idea if he is always 'on it,' either at work or at poker. I am not young either, so that brings up a lot of questions for me about what I want and brings time into the equation.

DH realises he sounds like a noob when he says about the testosterone and about it being like he's a professional athlete, but he says that that's just how it works for him and he has noticed the difference in preparations and conditions and how it affects the amount of money he makes.

I actually think he is an addict. I wouldn't call it a gambling addict, because I am very sure of the numbers. I'd say generally his wins total about £100K and his losses £30K. I'd say he's a poker addict. He's addicted to the rush, the adrenalin, the money. He has gotten used to having that kind of money and now doesn't want to let it go... he has to get more.

I have definitely enjoyed the extra income and needed it. We have needed to give full time care to two of our parents and it has gone mostly towards keeping my father and his mother alive, which I am always grateful for.

The fact that a loss sends him in a tailspin is the only thing that upsets me. Dealing with someone who is moody and angry and yelling and unavailable when something happens that I have no control over, is very difficult because it's unpredictable and hurtful that he should take it out on me. He must have an anger management problem.

In the US and France poker winnings are taxable. In the UK, poker is officially tax free.

I wouldn't want to be somebody who is the partner if somebody addicted to poker. You seem to see this as ok because he is winning, what if he doesn't win? Losing doesn't cure somebody of an addiction.

Only you can make the decision on what you think us right but please, consider how things would be if it was £70k of losses and £30k of winnings. How would things be for you both in that senario?

I think DH has good control over his involvement with the game financially. I would have to see how he would behave if the losing became something that happened more frequently. He insists that he'd deal with it and make some sort of overall resolution if the losses started to become more than the wins, but I wouldn't know that until it happened and it hasn't yet (it's been a few years.) I only know what happens if he has a small loss and that is very unpleasant because he feels like he's losing control, losing his knack, or whatever he calls it, then his mood changes again as soon as he wins.

But the small losses just contribute to this cycle of going more and more to the card room. Eg if he loses £1000 one night, he'll go in his lunch break the next day, make £500, then go straight after work, drop £300 by dinner, not come home for dinner, but by 2am have made £2000. Fine, great, he's made money which we need, but where am I in this whole occasion? On the other end of the phone texting back and forth with him. I end up saying 'I don't care about the money, just come home.' And he says 'so you want our parents to not have the full time nursing they need? This is a duty we have to look after them and I am doing the best I can to help both of us.'

He gives me the 'we need the money' excuse. I agree we need the money, but I also think we could survive without the extra salary, which makes me think that he does this because he's addicted, not solely because he wants to provide full time care for our parents.

In which case you've got big problems

Cogito I am 99.9999% sure he isn't having an affair. I drop in on him at random times at the card room and he is always exactly where he says he is going to be, and the only women there are waitresses who serve drinks (and Vicky Coren!)The rest of the time he's surrounded by sweaty, stinky blokes.

Yes I think he does sound addicted, and I'd be seriously questioning whether I wanted a child with a man who would almost never be there and would throw a strop if you dared ask him to change a nappy before he left for his precious game.

Substitute his addiction to poker with an addiction to alcohol and this behaviour looks very worrying, doesn't it

He has a compulsion to always come out on top that is quite simply ruling his life. You do not figure, and he will use anyexcuse to get his fix. When a baby comes along he will use that as an excuse to feed his addiction

This is what you are looking at and tbh, because you have enjoyed the money, you have colluded in it so far

AnyFucker exactly I have colluded in it, and that's what makes my arguments against him going or insisting he comes home seem weak.

It has been HUGELY helpful to have the extra money. I work for myself and it has put me in the position where I can choose my clients, rather than have to accept work from slave drivers who pay me little, because I am trying to keep our heads above water. It has freed me up, reduced my stress. I have a chronic illness and the more relaxed I've been in feeling I have a choice about who I work with, has made the symptoms calm down.

So I am stuck and I suppose only have myself to blame.

If he ever starts loosing, he will hide those losses from you.
He will take out loans and use credit cards for cash.

I think having a baby with him would not be a good - he's not even wanting to take the time to conceive a baby.

His gambling is his first love in his life. The money he makes is his excuse for continuing.

Best wishes to you.
You have a lot of thinking to do.

Proffessionals in all walks of life Athletes, racing drivers, sugeons, solicitors cannot be at their best after a disagreement with their spouse

They need to learn to compartmentalise then.

Quite.
If he thinks he has parallels with an Olympic athlete then he needs to borrow a few tools of the trade.

Get him to Read something like Psyching for Sport by Terry Orlich or similar sport psychology book.

The basis of the book, using a formula that works for Olympian athletes is to identify by RESULTS what state of mind you need to be in to win. Then create a programme to recreate that state just before a competition.

The two main points in this are that first, the optimum state of mind is often not the one you think it is. Most people think they need to be calm, and get more agitated if they cannot keep control of events behind them, but that is often not true many people perform best when in a state of heightened activation.

The other point is that you always will get unbalancing events like rows just before an event, in fact due to the heightened emotion you are much more likely than normal to row. The difference between a good county level athlete and an true Olympian is the amateur will allow it to unbalance them, the Olympian will simply refocus using their techniques and get on with it.

No, no no

You have a choice whether to live like this or not.

it doesn't sound like he does though, which is precisely my point

I think this may be a lot simpler than some are suggesting.

If he's earning 70K a year at poker, and you both look at it as something that provides serious money you live off (as opposed to just an occasional money-wasting binge) then it is simply a second job.

Dude is working two jobs - at least one of which is highly stressful and demands extreme concentration. The working hours of the jobs are not being managed properly for him to get enough sleep. As a result he's overtired and snappy and says things he shouldn't. No huge mystery there. It doesn't condone it, but it pretty much explains it.

As you both consider the poker winnings a serious second income that contributes to running your household, then you both need to sort this out together, according to your shared priorities and the way you want to live. The obvious answer to me is for him to give up his day job. Unless you feel you can't live on 70K (tax free) plus whatever you earn, in which case you'll just have to put up with the bad temper as the price of the greed.

If you want him to do this, and are prepared to live on the lower income, but he doesn't see the need to, then you have a problem akin to that of a high level business executive or merchant banker, working all day and night and neglecting his family. The family need to decide which they want more - the money or the man's availability.

I suspect some people were hasty to liken this to a drug addiction problem or too much time on his "hobby" because of the seedy reputation of poker. But it doesn't seem like that to me. He's just working too much.

OTOH if what you want most of all is to continue having a very comfortable lifestyle that he provides for you, a little expectation that you respect the requirements of the job that provides that lifestyle doesn't seem an unreasonable burden in return.

Oh, and I also had the same immediate thought as Cogito about the testosterone thing. .

Needn't necessarily be that though. Athletes do often refrain from sex before a major event for the same reason. I know I certainly feel less on edge and more relaxed after sex - which is of course one of the reasons people have it!

Agree with FastLoris. The sex thing - my gut feel is it's more likely he is too nervous to get it up before a big game but doesn't want to admit that to OP.

You have a chronic illness which is best managed by controlling stress.
You are self-employed and partially reliant on your DH for money.
Your DH is effectively working two jobs, one of which may be an addiction.
He uses money as a weapon to make you feel bad about questioning the health of your relationship.

This is not a scenario that I would want to have a baby in.

Is there someone IRL you can talk to? Or maybe speak to a gamblers' families support group.

Good luck OP.

I completely agree with UnexpectedItem in that he is using the money as a weapon to quell your protests at his unreasonable behaviour. My DH is a professional gambler it is our main source of income - he earns a lot more than 70k and his success can be intoxicating and lead him to believe everyone has to move around him. I am always clear that family happiness is our priority and we are capable of being happy on pasta if necessary.

I never thought from the off that he was playing poker out of necessity, he wasn't and isn't. Yes the extra dosh is lovely and there seems to be a hell of a lot of it but he is not doing it out of some sense of duty towards his family, sorry, I don't believe that, and the fact both your parents are needing extra care is coincidental, it's not part of why he is addicted to poker.

If you are happy to have a partner who at times will not be there for you (please don't bring a baby into this mix), is snappy with you, unreliable and just generally a misery to be around unless he has had his hit then carry on. For me, I think the baby would be the catalyst in me laying down the law, it's one way of life or another, he has to choose.

The problem here is that it's not entirely clear what the OP wants regarding the work-life balance.

I wasn't suggesting her DH only plays poker out of duty to the family. Peoples' motivations for jobs are complex. Some people have true vocations, some boring jobs that they only do for the money, some strange quasi-addictive things like this. But at the end of the day, if he's earning well at it and the money is going in to be considered joint income for joint welfare, then it is a job that is part of family life, not just some separate indulgence of his.

If the OP is clear that she doesn't care about the money that comes from him working two jobs, but just wants him to be more relaxed and available - and if she's communicated that to him and he disagrees and ignores her - then there is a problem similar to what some have described here.

But it's not clear that that's the case. What she seems to want is to continue enjoying the lifestyle that comes from his working his arse off and getting no sleep, but without the overtiredness and bad temper that goes with that.

He is an addict. You don't have to lose constantly and be heavily in debt to be a gambling addict.

He won't change, yes you like the money but you will have to choose being with him the way he is and getting worse or to cut your losses, the way non gambling addicts know how to do.

He is using money to control you and buy you and therefore treat you however he wants