my mum's taking me to court.

[sadtigs]

Hello all. Having some problems with my mum and wanted to vent really. It's not a short story - sorry.
So, my dad died when I was young and it was just my mum bringing me up. She was ok, disinterested I guess but I got on ok. As an adult we had problems, she was very controlling and manipulative, esp with money and stuff, but I tried to keep the relationship going. She gave us the deposit for my house and was good with the kids so it wasn't all bad.
Then one day she rang up out of the blue and said I'd broken in her house and taken her bank card then put it back and she knew this because she could see on the bank statement. I was distraught. Eventually it turned out it was a direct debit she could see on it but she wouldn't say sorry. So I said until she could apologise I wouldn't speak to her. Then she got nasty. She said I'd never see her again and she would cut me out of her will.
She told all my family that the money she gave me for the house deposit was a loan and I wouldn't pay her back. They stopped talking to me too. She also told my neighbours and any friends she knew of mine in our area.
Then she rang the bank and said I'd broken in, stolen documents and fraudulently took out her remortgage.
Then she contacted a solicitor and said she'd loaned me all the money from her remortgage (this was more than double what she did give me) and I wouldn't pay. I protested and asked for statements as proof.
She provided them but as they showed a different story she now says she gave me some as a 'loan' and the rest was used when I broke in and stole her card. (She likes this version doesn't she).
So, I guess I'm going to court. I'm not after legal advise as my solicitor can sort that, my problem is the emotional part. How do you cope with your mum doing that to you? All these lies, manipulating everyone... no one ever tells her she's obviously lying even though her story changed so much. My own family just went along with her.
I'm guessing it is due to her wanting me cut out of her will and as the gift of the deposit was given as 'it's part of your inheritance now whilst you need it' she feels she needs it back so she can die knowing I got nothing. But how can a mother be this way. It's just so sad.

Have you thought of mental illness?

MIL had a neighbour who became paranoid and convinced that her husband was having an affair with a girl young enough to be his granddaughter: she used to come up with the most amazing scenarios to explain how this could actually be happening without anybody noticing. She was absolutely convinced that he brought the girl into the house at night and shagged her downstairs when she was asleep.

The husband, poor man, was seriously ill with prostate cancer and unlikely to have been in a position to have done much shagging.

It wasn't malice on her part, but some kind of MH issue.

This sounds horrific and she sounds very dysfunctional which is so sad for you. It won't take the pain away but it's her that's like this and i'd guess that with someone like this nothing you've done has made you deserve this awful treatment or such lies.

I'm not sure. She's always been a bit weird with money, likes the thrill of being generous but then resents that she's given something of hers away. And she's always had a nasty streak when challenged.
I do wonder if she believes each version though once she's said it to herself enough times.
But why set out to make these stories up, and why do none of my family tell her she's being so horrible?
I know no one can answer those questions really, I just feel so sad about it. No one ever bothered to stand up for me and just left me to be bullied by her rather than risk her turning on them.

Thanks lovepancakes. Seriously. I wish someone in my family could just say that to me. Just once.

I am sorry sad. I can relate to this a little as my mum makes things up and then likes to punish you for what ever is in her head that she believes but no one else has a clue about.

It maybe worth gathering evidence if where she has done similar things like this before. Emails, texts, diary that air f thing. Maybe then your solicitor can present that to show she does this kind of thing. Although I am no legal person so this may not be helpful.

I'd also be suspecting some kind of mental impairment, I'm afraid. If it was mere bullying/shit-stirring I think she'd back down. Her solicitor must be saying that she hasn't got a leg to stand on for a start. So to keep doggedly on with this stolen bank card delusion, in the face of all the facts, knowing it'll never stand up in court, is irrational and obsessional.

I know that it's not the done thing on here, but I would also suspect some kind of mental illness. We have a relative with a severe mental illness and this is just the sort of behaviour they would indulge in. It is usually money related and comes from a form of psychosis. They genuinely believe what they are saying and nothing will persuade them otherwise.

It's almost impossible to deal with, but generally speaking people like solicitors do come across this from time to time and are quite good at spotting it. At least they were in our case. Hope this gets sorted for you soon.

We haven't gone non contact with this person, well their blood relative hasn't, but we have boundaries in place and the relationship is chilly to say the least. It does help that everyone knows that they are ill and they are being treated to some degree.

I don't know how much contact you currently have with your mum, but I would definitely take a few steps back for as long as it takes.

Is there any way that you could pay her back the deposit over a period of time? I'm not saying that because I think you've done anything wrong (we will gift our children a small amount when the time comes to buy a house), but because it removes any sense of obligation that you may feel towards her. We would never accept any money from our relative because the emotional and psychological price is too high. Distance is key.

It reminds me of when my grandmother had a bladder infection that made her go mental and start thinking people were stealing from her. This is apparently quite common, it just isn't something you'd automatically think of.

This must be absolutely horrible for you

She must believe herself to go this far, so it does sound like a mental disorder

Hi sadtigs,

Re your comments in quote marks:-

"She was ok, disinterested I guess but I got on ok. As an adult we had problems, she was very controlling and manipulative, esp with money and stuff, but I tried to keep the relationship going".

She was never okay at all and failed you abjectly as a parent. Controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour. I wonder why you tried to keep this relationship going, I can only assume you did so because you wanted her approval.

She learnt controlling and manipulative behaviours from somewhere; what do you know about her own childhood exactly with relation to her own parents?. I'd put money on it that it was neither happy or emotionally healthy.

"I do wonder if she believes each version though once she's said it to herself enough times.
But why set out to make these stories up, and why do none of my family tell her she's being so horrible?"

Oh yes, I think she does believe her own version.

Family do not pull her up on it simply because if they did so, they would become her target. They would much rather see you cop her nonsense and be her fall guy.

What about you though; I would look into completely disengaging on any level with your mother, doing so protects yourself from her.

I should point out that I'm a layman when it comes to legalities, but....

My mum also gave us a sum of money towards our house deposit; however our mortgage lender insisted that she write a letter stating that she was gifting the money with no conditions or expectation that it be repaid. They said that this is standard; if your mum has done likewise, no matter what she tells people about it being a loan, from a legal standpoint she cannot compel you to repay her and your house is in no danger.

I think the only way to deal with it emotionally is to accept that she is not the parent you would have liked to have, that she never will be, and that this is not something you could have prevented or can now change by being "better" or different than you are.

In short: it's who she is. It's a shame. Mourn the mother you wish you had, accept the one you do have, and adapt your behaviour towards her accordingly.

Nope, nothing wrote out saying it was a gift or a loan. She just wrote us a cheque. I should have realised the gift had teeth at the time due to her behaviour with money and asked for this done but I was only 21 and had no idea about these things. And I was just so grateful she was helping I buried my head in the sand. I was an idiot.
She's always enjoyed putting family against family and has always been weird with money, the number of times I would borrow a tenner or so off her as a teen to pay it back then been told I hadn't is huge. I just didn't realise that she would set out to destroy me totally if I upset her enough. And going NC several years ago obviously tipped it over.
Her recent solicitors letter even said they understand that the newest version is substantially different to her last version, but they still seem to be believing her and carrying it on, and my solicitor just sent me a letter saying it was a civil matter and what did they want me to do. So I guess I just wait and hope she takes me to court so I can finally tell someone what she is doing. I just wish someone would just tell her her stories don't add up and she's obviously lying, but noone ever seems to.

I wonder if there's a legal person here who can advise you! Surely something can be done against her making malicious allegations against you! I can't imagine the hours you have spent thinking about all this and the emotional anguish it must have caused you.

I just wish someone would just tell her her stories don't add up and she's obviously lying, but noone ever seems to.

Can you let go that wish?

No-one is going to volunteer to get on her bad side.
And even if they did, would she really truly take it on board? Or would she continue to concoct convoluted explanations in her head about why she is right and they are wrong?

So what would it change, really?

I don't have anything constructive to add but just wanted to say how much I admire your strength in being able to deal with such a heart wrenching situation with such care, compassion and common sense.

My heart goes out to you, it really does. I also imagine that you are an amazing mum.

npd leapt to mind. not that I know much about it, just rings bells.
Sorry you're going thru this, OP. I don't see how you caused any of it to happen.

Your right hotDAMN I need to let that go. I wouldn't want any other family member to go through this, and if they challenged her they would. She still wouldnt believe them and it would only make the family even more fractured and leave her alone, and I don't really want that. At least I have dh and the kids. I guess it's just that child part of me wanting someone to jump in and stick up for me and make it better. But it wouldn't would it, even if they did.
I don't blame my family for not saying anything really, I just hurt that maybe it's really cos they believe her. Which means they too could think I'd do that. That's painful.
And thanks Tinsel. I'm none of those things really. I'm angry and hurt and frightened and bloody sad that I didn't get a mum that other people seem to get, and didn't really get a dad at all. I'm sad that i'm estranged from all my family, and regretful that I caused it by firstly letting her help and then causing the problem by standing up to her. The only compassion I have is that she must be very sad and angry inside to behave like this, and I'm sad that she can't be happy and enjoy her life like I wish she could. I try bloody hard to be a good mum though, I'd fight to my last breath to make sure my kids don't feel like this ever. Nothing like being on the other side of it to make you see how you want to parent!

You did not cause this. It is absolutely not wrong to accept help from a parent, it's normal, and in a normal situation nothing more would happen. You have every right to expect kindness and support from your own mother and the fact that not only do you not get it but she actively tries to hurt you is very sad. The reaction of your family is predictable but very cowardly.

Once this matter is done with you need to try your best to detach and cut contact. Being around her isn't safe.

I have had experience in RL of a person with persistent delusional disorder. He presented as perfectly normal unless and until you strayed into the topic he had delusions about. Then all hell would break loose.

I am emphatically not trying to diagnose your mother. But I do think there is a broadly similar consistent theme where she has a particular issue with money. She sounds as though she not only uses it to control people, but that money changing hands has some kind of extreme emotional impact for her-a trigger if you like.

You did nothing wrong in accepting the money, and doing so was not some kind of guarantee you'd never fall out with your mother or would do what she wanted forever more.

The changes of story are all helpful for you. They undermine her credibility. Wait and see if she does bring any legal action and what version of events she then comes up with. Some people love to threaten to sue but they often find it is a lot easier to threaten a legal action than to win one, so do keep your nerve.

Solicitors are paid by the client. That's not to say they should encourage frivolous suits (most really don't do this) but if a client is determined to pursue a case in spite of advice to the contrary and is willing to pay for the privilege then some will indulge the client and keep taking their cash.

I agree with Cogito. The fact that your mother has found a solicitor who will take her case, does not mean that she has a case.

Alzheimers sufferers often accuse their carers of stealing from them. This explains how it is just a result of faulty reasoning, a malfunctioning of the brain. I don't know if that is the case for your Mother - but whatever it is, I think you have to see it like this: you are a target simply because you are there.

Of course you feel angry, hurt, frightened and sad when your own mother is behaving in such a vicious, vindictive (and, of course, completely unjustified) way towards you. It's terrible, it would break anyone's heart.

If it's any comfort to you, there are an awful lot of us here on MN who didn't get those loving parents that "everyone else" seems to have had. I am estranged from mine. It's totally normal to wish that yours were different, but maybe you can use this extreme behaviour of hers to help you really grieve for what you've never had and what you are now recognising you never will have.

I have some experience of someone with apparent signs of dementia accusing me of extorting money from her, and I've heard of many similar cases: it certainly is a recognised syndrome. But you say your mother pulled some lower level stunts of this kind back when you were a teenager, so it can't just be her age. It also seems very specifically designed to keep you under her control as far as possible. The level of vitriol and malice is just horrifying.

No legal expertise I'm afraid but I'm hopeful from what you say that if it ever did get to court, it would be clear she hasn't got a legal leg to stand on. that's just an uninformed guess though.

So sorry you're having to deal with this. Have some , you deserve them.