Relationships and money

[Haveacwtch]

Hi

I am feeling so down at the moment in my relationship. I have been with my DH for nearly twenty years. We are married and have two children.

We have always had separate finances. I have got Into debt in the past and am on a debt management plan based on my earnings.

I lost my job in march and took a massive knock to my confidence. I have a pay off which has lasted me until now. Just after I lost my job my dh business got into trouble and I paid everything and gave him a lot of money to keep his business going. I needed this money back to support myself. Most money that has been paid back has been used by me to pay household bills etc. I always made sure he had money and gave it graciously.

I always intended on going back to work by now. The issue is that in my industry part time work does not come up. I would be working long hours with possible travel. My dh works long hours and with two young children it would not be possible. One of us needs to have regular hours for the children. My little one would also be in nursery 5 days and long hours. If I take a part time job it would be minimum wage and my childcare would cost more than I will earn

I enrolled on a part time course yesterday to retrain so I can return to work when my youngest starts school.

The issue I have is money. I have an income from a rental property and get minimum tax credits. The problem is I still pay 50% of all bills and this is wiping that out so I am left with nothing. I hate asking him for money and find it really demoralising. He gave me money today which paid for my personal bills, petrol in the car and food shopping. I don't have a penny in my purse. I am worried about money every day and he has just gone out now because I am crying and he is sick of it.

I can't do this. I feel like the balance in our relationship has totally shifted.

What do I do? I feel totally stuck

Thank you if you've got this far.

Sounds like the bigger issue is your husband's lack of financial and emotional support. You have given birth to two children and you are the sole carer, does he expect you to live off fresh air?

The way you are talking you'd think you were a single parent. I'd be having a serious chat with him when you are feeling stronger and sort out a plan of how much housekeeping he needs to give you in order for you to run the home. I'd be sick of him, not the other way round if I was you, once you feel better, get his told, it's his responsibility until you are able to return to work.

Not sure what the point of your marriage is to be honest. Why did you guys get married? Did you - or rather did he - listen to his vows?

No way could I live like this. This isn't a marriage.

As a very basic starting point I believe all spending money should be equal and equally shared. So whether you each have a separate account that this amount is transferred into from a joint account or whether you do it some other way to me that is essential.

All the time you were in debt, was he? If he had money and you didn't something is so very wrong there.

My dh and I share all our money (I am a sahm and he works). All money in, what is left after all bills and savings divided between us equally.

I could not live like you do. I think you need to have a serious talk with him.

I don't know what you do, but it sounds terrible.
I would say the only way forward is for you to if not share finances ( which I actually think is part if marriage) then at least share the cost of childcare they are his children too.

I can understand why you feel so demoralised. There seems to be very little support in your relationship. To be fair to your H (because I'm trying to be objective rather than just call him a selfish twat, which is how he's coming across) I guess that if your relationship has always been founded on separate finances due to your previous debt problems he may have simply got into this habit and because he is prepared to share money in principle (although you see it as having to ask for it), he possibly can't understand why you're so upset about it.

For your part, perhaps you need to be more assertive rather than feeling like you're accepting handouts. The children are your joint responsibility. Only half the childcare costs come out of your potential NMW salary. The other half is your H's responsibility. You facilitate his ability to work by providing childcare at all other times. His response to that should be to share more of his money. Stop asking for stuff you are entitled to expect in a respectful, equal relationship.

Everyone runs their own marriage in whatever way they see best fit. There is no 'right' and 'wrong' barring abuse, etc. However, to my mind marriage is as much an economic contract as it is a declaration of love. When you marry - and particularly once there are children involved - you become one economic unit, working together as a team to best meet the needs of each individual member in a way you couldn't achieve if you all looked only to your own interests. It may, for example, be practical to keep your finances separate on paper for credit rating reasons, but in day-to-day practice all your money should be pooled for each member's benefit and you should have access to it without needing to ask.

I think your sense of entitlement needs to be boosted, his willingness to support you and adapt to your changing fortunes needs to be boosted, and you both need a very long, air-clearing discussion about money.

I hope you manage to work something out.

I couldn't live like that either. All mine and dp's accounts are joint. We share bills, we share debt and we share spending money. I am on maternity leave and dp is supporting us while I care for dd. He sometimes works extra in order that we can live how we have become accustomed knowing that what I do is important too. We had the conversation re money before we moved in together and re-organised our finances to accommodate the new arrangements including dp paying off some of my debt. If you have always kept money separate it's not going to be easy to change but something has to change right?

Thanks all. That's helped me. I was starting to feel it was me. He's not leaving me desolate. He gives me money but if that's spent on food and petrol (and we've got a stupidly large engine car which costs £90 to fill up) then what else do I need money for. I asked if I could book a hair appointment earlier as haven't had my hair cut for months and you'd think I asked for a spa break. He gave me £100 last weekend - £60 weekly shop and £30 in car - gone. £40 Friday - £30 car £10 sundries - gone. He will always pay when we're out with the kids or rare nights out

Our financial relationship is screwed up. I have no idea what he earns or what money he has. I have left a good career on a £40k salary. Because of my money problems before financial worry kills me

I have no idea what he earns or what money he has.

That's the most worrying sentence you've posted. That's neither normal nor right. I would expect a healthy relationship to have complete transparency and for him to want to allay your worries.

Are your money issues now resolved?

What are you going to do?

You don't know what he earns, well you better find out and if asking for money for a hair cut is too much for him then he's treating you with complete contempt. Not leaving you desolate isn't good enough.

The issue as I see it is that you 'hate asking him for money and find it demoralising'. FWIW I wouldn't enjoy being dependent on a man either. I'm a big advocate of people maintaining a certain amount of financial independence within a relationship, particularly women with children, but changing circumstances mean being adaptable.

You need to park the guilt at past bad financial management and approach this as a team with a finite (reduced) income, bills to pay and respect to be shared out equally. Take it from there

Thank you. I would use my birthday money for hair cut but that was used for food and petrol including money he gave me. He knew this and it was his suggestion

I need to get everything written down and work out a fair budget I think including what I need from him. If that can't be done then I need to go back to work and he needs to shorten his hours and split pick ups and drop offs and my kids can hardly see any of their parents.

You have been together for 20 years?!!!

The concept of separate finances always beats me.
What is the point of getting 'together', if you are still 'separate'?

No wonder eventually it comes and bites you, especially in hard times when you need each other's support the most :(

The concept of fully joint finances beats me :) Or to be more accurate, having had the misfortune to once be married to a man who, despite earning a fantastic salary, was an arse with money & racked up personal debt in the tens of thousands (and we're talking 20 years ago) ... I learned a harsh lesson about why it's stupid to row your financial lot in with someone 100% and never have a bit put by for yourself.

When he walked out on me for an OW, if we'd had fully joint finances, I'd have lost my home and been liable for eye-watering amounts of debt. Bankrupt probably. Retaining some financial independence saved me.

'was an arse with money & racked up personal debt in the tens of thousands'

So, you were not really 'joint', as he was making decisions single-handedly. You were still separate. Therefore the concept of fully joint finances really beats you. It means joint decisions about the joint finances more than anything else. Presumably, the spouses have similar attitude to money. Otherwise they will not be spouses for long anyway.

We had a joint account into which we both contributed a significant proportion of our respective incomes. It was used to pay for all household expenses (successfully) and we retained personal accounts for personal & incidental expenses. Very sensible, was a joint decision, and a lot of people run their finances that way with no problems whatsoever. It relies on trust... i.e. trusting each other to be responsible with the personal expenses.... and I don't think that's incompatible with a happy relationship at all. The fact that he ultimately couldn't be trusted is not because of the way we arranged the banking...

A joint account is really not a guarantee of marital harmony....

Oh, oh, oh, I am not saying a joint account is a guarantee for marital bliss. Hell, no. All I am saying is that separate finances are weird in terms of everything else being 'joint' - lives, children, home, bed, etc. I cannot fathom the concept of borrowing money from my husband. It is an oxymoron. It is like my 2-year old borrowing money from me. Like me keeping track of what I spend on my children so that one day I can give them the bill for all expenditure. Crazy! I view marriage as becoming relatives with my spouse, closest being only children, or on the same level. And whereas one day my kids will fly the nest and then they can 'borrow' from me, my husband (hopefully) will not fly the nest and will stay to see me through. My views. Please, don't feel obliged to share them. :)

Change your car. You'll save ££££££.

It's a start.

Then sit down with him and do what's called a statement of affairs. This lists all income and outgoings for you all AS A FAMILY.

I've referred a few posters to the Motley Fool website. The Dealing With Debt board has a template for you to fill in. It takes account of any debt to repay and lists assets etc, and tells you what's available at the end of the month as disposable income. It really helps you to see the wood for the trees, and there are some debt experts there who can tell you where and how to pare down your outgoings - changing your gas guzzler car would be one of them.

It's important that both of you as responsible parents are singing from the same song sheet. What's the point of one spouse contemplating bankruptcy or living on the breadline when the other can enjoy a reasonable and carefree lifestyle.

I've no investment on Motley Fool. I've been an occasional poster but mostly just lurk on it.

Thank you. I have recently done an income and expenditure for my creditors and know what we have going out every month and what our contribution is. Problem is it isn't enough so the money I am meant to be using is being eaten up by household bills. Money is such a contentious issue for us, it's the only thing we fight about and has been responsible for two nasty bouts of depression for me ending in anti depressants. We need to sit down and go through it all but he is so stressed with work at the moment he can't do it.

I don't want him to give me £100 here and there, I need a sum of money each month to live on and not to have to justify every penny.

I'm going to get everything down on paper including what I would earn if I worked tomorrow. I'll see how that goes.

We have got a pretty old car which seemed perfect when we bought it but is now showing its faults. I doubt we could sell it without spending a lot of money on it. It is a car I drive every day but it is an estate which we need with dogs and children but it is just so expensive to run.

Thanks all

Does he have money to spend that he doesn't have to give an account of to you? Is he spending his birthday money on food and petrol so that he has nothing left for haircuts?

Yes.

But why are your finances separate? Why don't you have a joint account?

It's terribly controlling, letting you ask him for handouts. Been there done that. Went part time with dd1 and made redundant with dd2.

As life plods on and things change , your finances need to be updated. Me and DDs father had a joint account just for bills (like COG) and keep our own accounts for anything that's left over. A proportionate amount of salary got paid into the 'bills' account. And that got adjusted over time but only when I got absolutely desperate. Always overdrawn, no more for haircuts or shoes (find these two outgoings impossible) . Generally everything I had went on the DDs.

I'm not surprised you have been through bouts of depression. It's incredibly stressful thinking about every penny. And knowing your other half isn't!

I really hope you can somehow get him to commit to a large abound each month that covers everything and leaves a little over for kids shoes and other unplanned things (bloody brownie trips!).

You're married. And not financially equal. Good luck .

Would you be better off having a smaller property but paying off your debts?

The property we live in needs a lot of work to complete which needs money! Our rental property brings in a good income and we have family living there long term. To sell it would cause massive problems. Plus with the tax we would need to pay we are better off keeping it.

As you are married, even if you keep separate finances, what is yours is his and what is his is yours. You should know how much he earns and vice versa.

I think you need to sit with him and discuss a better way of dealing with the family finances that suits the new situation and both of you.

If he wants to keep it as it is, you can suggest that if you separate he will be required to share more than what he is at the moment.