Just need someone to talk to

[Mrswellyboot]

I have posted about this before but I have a terrible relationship with my mother though I know I take stuff to heart and another person would laugh her off.

Anyway a friend of mine and I have drifted apart. We never had much in common but met up now and then. She gets very down and has a tendency to criticise too. She knows about how difficult my relationship is with my mother. From time to time i have had to go NC but it breaks my heart.

I have a new baby and she got into bad humour with me because I asked her to wait a few days before visiting. I suppose I have been distancing myself, I find her so negative.

I didn't meet up friend over Christmas as she couldn't make the date and she rang the following week one afternoon but we had a meal booked. So what did she do only called to my mother with the present and now rings my mother to talk about me and what is wrong with me. She rang her again last night. I'm so angry with her. Now mum is on and on at me that I am in the wrong.

I can't tell my mother that the most important person (mother) in my life criticises me and I have had to deal with this my whole life and I don't need supposed friends to do this too.

I am going to have to ignore her because if I meet up with her I have so much shit to listen to.

I feel so bad as I should have stopped her (friend) in her tracks all the time she was nasty but let it build up over the years.

I don't know what I hope to gain from posting.

My goodness, that's terrible. And deliberate. That isn't a friend. I had very few 'active' friendships when my second child was born. It was a terrible time but I have made some great ones since. Mostly through work but some through playgroup. Ditch the bad friend and see if there's a way of making better friendships locally. If it's cleansing, write her a letter or email politely telling her how let down you feel. Without her, your relationship with your mum might improve. If not, at least you might be able to find some new, genuine friends to talk through your feelings with. Good luck.

That is not the way a friend should behave op, and i hope your relationship improves with your mum. Congratulations on the birth of your new baby, this is a time when your mum and friend should be supportive and wanting to help. Not making your life difficult. Enjoy your time with your little one.

With friends like that you don't need enemies. What she has done is proof that you can't talk with her about your innermost thoughts, particularly about your relationship with DM. Now the friend has contacted DM once she'd definitely do it again as she's so worried about you and you'd find yourself at the heart of their discussions with pressure from both of them.

I think you're going to have to tell the friend that you consider her no longer to be someone you can fully trust and you doubt the friendship has a future. Then work on the long silence, don't explain, don't minimise. Let her offer what she can in the way of an apology and then decide how you want to go forward with her.

Congratulations on your new little one.

Thank You all so much I know now I can't trust her. I am also worried about stuff I have told her. My mum has severe depression so I know she attacks and isn't bad at heart. 'Friend' has never done anything bad as such except I used to find her a bit draining. The work I do is emotional and then with my mother the way she is I am trying to enjoy the short while I have in ML

The worst thing is my mother accidentally put the presents in the attic and only gave them to me today and told friend I didn't want to collect them. Aghhhhh..

I have made good friends luckily and actually won't miss this friendship but am sad too. If she hadnt gone to my mothers I would have contacted but now I refuse to when she is doing stuff like this :(

Homebird do you think I should ring her or visit? I am worried she is going to really guilt trip me. I am thinking of not contacting he at all. I really love her children and had gifts for her too but didn't want to get petty or think that's is acceptable to go gossiping about me to my mother who now has more fuel.

My mother thinks telling me what I do wrong all the time is being a good mother as she is being honest. We said when my friend criticises me it shows she's an honest friend and you can't have a better friend than an honest friend.

Since you ask Mrswellyboot, I think you need to go NC with your mum again. At least until she runs out of steam with the ammo your friend has, possibly unwittingly, given her - 10 years might do it.

I do understand the toxic DM thing. Been there. All over now because she died. Still dealing with the aftermath though four years on. 2014 is my year for me. Check out the Statelyhomes thread. You may decide there is more to your DM's behaviour than depression. That is definitely how it reads to me.

Now, your friend...

If you think she just hasn't 'got' the things you've told her about your 'D'M, and you want to try to keep her as a friend then I would arrange to visit and take the Christmas presents you have for her with you. Maybe, when you make the arrangements, you could tell her that there's something you want to discuss with her. It's time to be an 'honest friend' and see how she likes it. The difference is that you can act on the response and make your own decision. She expects to be able to dish it out, let's see whether she cares enough about your friendship to listen properly to you. Another word for honesty is opinionated, all the worse if it's ignorant of knowledge or feelings.

As to what you say...

I would lead with you feeling she has not understood the complexity of your relationship with your DM. That you feel hurt by her communicating directly with her. That your confiding in her has been compromised by it. And then what does she want to do about that.

Then silence. Let her talk. Listen and think about what she says. You can post here too for opinions.

Personally, I wouldn't burn bridges at that point even if I didn't like any minimisation or justification that I heard. I would finish my tea, leave as normal, and then go LC or NC as I felt necessary. She walked away from the role of confidante, you can too.

Thank you homebird.

Sorry for all you have been through :(

It's so difficult and this has brought up all the toxic stuff again with dm.

I would rather go nc with friend than dm as (enabler) father has begged me not to stay away. Also grandchild now and I can't do that. Really shook up this evening. I would rather physical pain than this. I will have to meet friend I think but need to be ready.

Well, it sounds as if friend is used to thinking of you, or has decided to think of you, as someone who doesn't know her own mind and needs telling (honestly). You could just go NC if you want, and it sounds as if this might be the final straw in a difficult relationship if that is your instinct.

Totally understand the I can't do that re your little one. I went down that path too, and for the most part managed it well by not allowing my DM to be alone with my DSs and working with my DSis to reinforce what was and what wasn't acceptable behaviour from DM. She was my best confidante as she believed me whatever I said, although even she went through periods of wishing DM was different and not wanting to hear me.

I hope 2014 is a good year for you. Thank you for listening to me on a sat night! Luckily dh is very supportive and so is my father who is a great friend to me.

I am not sure what to do. It is annoying me as the friendship was salvageable before she involved my mother.

My mother got worse when I got married as she had me all to herself before then. What hurts is she and 'friend' were having a big chat about how much I have changed in the last couple of years. Thing is I am more secure now and I think that's why I pull away from them.

For 'changed' read 'not available for our every bidding'. I think 'unsalvageable' is what I'm reading from your posts Mrswellyboot.

So glad DH is a good support. Enabler father I get too. Still very close to mine although his kickback after DM's death has made him concentrate more on himself at last so is less available. He has found a new lady and is behaving like a teenager in love. Much happiness to him

Good on your dad and good on you :)

I am still wide awake and feeling annoyed yet guilty too because i probably should have met with her before Christmas. Little did I know she'd start this drama!!

Anyway I might just send a blunt text that I appreciate the gifts but I don't appreciate her talking about me to my mother and I don't see there being much trust after this, cue her ringing, crying, making me feel guilty because she's a 'good person' :(

Guilt on your part isn't a useful emotion in this case Mrswellyboot. I suppose that's the decision. Do you need to tell her how you feel about her actions if she will feel that you are criticising and therefore want to defend herself by 'making' you feel guilty? If this is how she will respond then the LC route is a no go. The other alternative is NC, perhaps with a statement up front. The problem is that I'm sure you'd hear all about it from your DM. Hmm...

I think you may have to tell both friend and DM that you do not appreciate being talked about behind your back. That in future you will treat it as unacceptable behaviour and don't want to spend your precious new mummy time dealing with it. Then, one last time, be the better person and carry on as normal taking good note of whether apologies are forthcoming. One more breach and NC (however much your friend and father beg). Let DF man up and beg DM to play ball with you.

How are you doing MrsWellyboot?

Hi homebird. I am not that good. Was awake last night getting more annoyed. I will have to see mum in the next day or two and I know I am going to get the 'did you sort it' talk.

I am not going to contact friend though, I feel I can't say anything to her now and the more I think about it, the more I feel she was trying to insinuate that dh has changed me (this is what my mother likes to think) and I feel they are discussing my marriage. My mother now has ammunition. When I got married my mother stirred a huge row and told my father dh was no good. He is such a kind man, all he did was say to her that she comes down too hard on me and she just went woooooshhhhhh with it.

Thank You so much for thinking of me. ML gives you too much time to think. Going to get out for a long walk soon

Glad that you have come to a decision regarding your friend. As I said way up thread "who needs enemies". Walk, quietly away. It'll be interesting to see whether she comes to you with an understanding of what she has done and an apology, or joins rank with your DM. Hope for your sake she does neither but slinks off with her tail between legs and gives you the chance to concentrate on the sort of friendships you deserve. Not everyone is that interfering and manipulative.

As far as your DM is concerned, maybe some stock phrases might help. "You have made your feelings quite clear on this subject mum, there's no point in going over old ground" and change the subject.

Did you sort it? "Yes mum, all sorted" - Absolutely true. You've made your decision about your friend. It is all sorted.

I don't think my DM ever accepted that DH and I love each other. We'd already been married for 15 years when she died. We have two lovely DSs and are happy. Although I did love DM, life is much easier now she's gone.

Hello again homebird! I have had a chat with dm, who has actually been very good about th whole thing and I think she is glad I have talked to her about it as we haven't been close for a long time. She asked me to send on the gifts to the children but my gut is to do nothing when she was so petty as to go to my parents with hers.

I am seeing dm tomorrow and she will ask so I will say its sorted and I just want to move on. Dm has promised me that if friend rings again she will tell he to contact me and not her about it.

I haven't really slept and feel sad as I know her for so long.

I have had a couple of positive things happen in the last few days nothing to do with this and I feel good overall.

I will let you know how I get on. Mum thinks I should post on the gifts with a letter wishing her all the best but to leave me be. I think it will just encourage her to keep contacting me, I can't seem to shake her off but don't want things to get nasty?

I totally get you homebird, very similar situation. It's sad though. Have you moved on from it all or does I still haunt?

I'd just keep forgetting to send the gifts. The children don't know they're missing them so it will do no harm if you don't want to rekindle the friendship. If she's told the children you're sending them presents then that's her lookout and a desperate act of manipulation if she risks her own children. Poor little sausages if that's the case but not because of missing gifts, because of their DM.

In answer to your question I've moved on in some ways because it seems like an entirely new world. On the other hand the calm gives one time to think and I'm only just working out all the stuff that happened as a matter of course through both my childhood and the following 20 or so years. I lurk on the stately homes thread because there is a lot of wisdom there and a good deal of shared experience although I'm not ready to post. There was no physical abuse but a lot of undercurrent stuff which I now feel has left me not the person I could have been. This is my year for me so I'm recognising and tackling a bit at a time to take better emotional and physical care of myself.

I think I haven't been through what you have. But what I know is you have to look after yourself before anything else in life clicks into place. I have had a bit of help a couple of years ago and it's done me good. I haven't looked at the stately homes thread, I don't know if it applies to me though I have been told it does. I often get told I am a positive person an I am mostly. Then it doesn't take very much at all to upset me and it was only when I met dh that I really can be happy.

I was really shy as a teenager and scared to be myself and I remember one birthday party mum threw for me and I brought a couple of school friends who i got on well with and had a brilliant day. When everyone left mum shouted at me that she had told her friends that I was a loner and had no friends :( I had embarrassed her she said.
It's stuck with me.

It sounds as if Stately Homes is exactly the right place for both of us. There is no judgement on there about the actions from your toxic family that make you feel at home there. I actually think that you and I have a lot in common in terms of the type of thing that happened from your comment about the party and your DM's later comments. My stuff is similar. I'm not lurking on SH because I don't think that I belong there but because I've not yet plucked up my courage to start. I'm scared that once I start to unpack it all I may not be able to stop. Same reason I've not sought out counselling.

What have you decided to do about your 'friend' and the presents?

Hi homebird!

I am feeling much better and I and going to post the gifts so they arrive on Monday, will post late tomorrow, I worried that might be petty but then she should have contacted me not my mum who she knew would rise to it all. I am going to put a note in with them to wish all the best for 2014.

No doubt she will ring me directly then at which point I will tell her that the friendship would have been salvageable had she given me a bit of space and / of support after the baby but she went too far as to do get into bad for with me and involve my mother.

What so you think of that? I feel I need to put a bit of closure, I will have to bump into her via work (rarely) but not worrying about that. I will tell her that I know she is a good person and may not mean harm but I don't feel I can relax or trust her now.

Sounds like a plan although (because I have been trained to excuse the worst behaviour) I'm wondering if she really meant harm by what she did. I don't doubt for one minute that you have made the right decision to end your friendship. Once that trust is gone it can never be anything but a shallow acquaintanceship anyway. I just wonder whether she'll be upset when you explain the situation? Glad you made a decision you're happy with about the presents. You are a kind and considerate person and I envy your ability to work out what is best for you when faced with toxic behaviour. You could teach me a thing or two.

Hi homebird, eventually wrote to her with gifts. In the post.
I wrote in the note that I know she meant no harm but she should not have contacted my mother, that I didn't like it.

i said this situation wouldnt have happened if she had given me some space and I wish them all the best for 2014. I don't think I have really ended it but she should get the message.

It's just constant when we meet like I had difficulties ttc and she says my baby might be the only one. It's just all her negativity. I know she isn't a bad person and you have to be friends good and bad times come and go but it's years of negativity. She is nosey and intrusive and a bit narrow minded.

I suppose that's why I'm not really friends with the woman who told me I'd never have kids because I'm not big enough to be fertile, and that I should get my breasts removed in my 20s because my DM had breast cancer. According to her my DH should be in a minimum wage job (he's a professional IT consultant) and whatever I do it's not as important as what he does.

Ooh, where did that rant come from? Cathartic though.

Do you think your friend will respond with an apology?