Can you give me some perspective on what FIL has done - will show dp thread.

[Seewhatyouhavedone]

I've NC for this as it's instantly identifiable to my family . Could get long.

Df has never been a hands on dad and was actually quiet shit on being a good role model. Who ever he was married to at the time got his full attention. His current wife I actually really like. If it wasn't for her I probably wouldn't even half the half hearted attempt at a relationship with DF. But I'm ok with this I'm used to it.

They are unfortunately going bankrupt . They have lost their house but have yet to hand the keys in. They are living in rented accommodation. Their house was lovely and Dsm really looked after it. It was her home.

Dp and df did a deal for a sum of money and shook hands on it, it was that dp could have what he wanted out of the house for some of his property's, radiators,boiler, kitchen units,washer dryer ect.... When dp arrived at my df old house,df stated if you see anything else you want take it.

While my dp was there they took down the kitchen and then he returned leaving FIL there with the keys.

My df rang me two days later saying Dsm was horrified at the state of the house. She was in tears . She was shocked that they had taken more things that she assumed they would take. But she was distraught at the damage FIL had caused.

He had ripped the fire place off leaving plaster hanging of walls, taken the radiators but not drained them spaying water and soaking all the carpets through with black water. Woodwork was smashed to pieces. Apparently it looks like some one took a hammer too it. I haven't seen it but I believe it.

It's took a full day to clear it up.

FIL doesn't give a shit about anyone. He is incapable of feeling empathy for anything/person.

Dp and fil see it as 'well they have lost the house, they don't live there now,what's the fuss'

They can not understand that this is a fucking awful thing for them to lose there lovey home and now some one has gone in and trashed it needlessly. Dsm was devastated. They had fucking drills and common sense. They didn't have to rip it pieces and make such a mess.

I think it's really hitting Dsm that she has lost her home now.

The damage was done while dp wasn't there but I'm ashamed to admit dp would probably would have left it that way too .

I'm starting to see traits in dp that are in his df and I hate it. We have had a massive argument this morning saying terrible things about each other's family's . Tbh if they had done it to a random stranger I would still feel the same. It was brutish , insensitive and thoughtless. It's really rocked the foundations on which our relationship is based on as dp is usually a very caring person or is that quality only afforded to me?

Any thoughts?

No I haven't hissy

Their house was lovely and Dsm really looked after it. It was her home.

It hardly sounds as if it was already a house that was already in an unmortgageable state that could only be sold at a knock down price at auction!

They have been very idiotic.

I did say your father was to blame - but I mean for your SM not expecting it, not for the mess.

There are a lot of variables here, in deciding who is at fault!

Say father is naïve and vulnerable and didn't know what he's done is possibly illegal, and didn't have any idea that take anything could mean things like fireplaces...

Now say you FIL knew that your father didn't expect it, that he knew he was fucking up the value - and even more, had given half what the stuff was worth cos he knew your father was clueless. Now let's say FIL is a nasty man who smashed things for fun. Not carelessly, deliberately for fun.

We just don't know. So it's hard to say.

I stand by you focusing on other issues you have.

I think that given your father and step mother were happy to have the house decimated in the first place, then they don't come out of this looking well either. Surely anyone with a shred of decency wouldn't decide to strip out a repossessd house ?

I think legally your parents have behaved terribly.

Why would you think 'take everything' would mean the kitchen but not the fireplace?

I do agree that while someone in this little chain of events has behaved horribly and illegally, the problem that YOU have is that your DP has apparantly no ability to empathise or understand other people's upset.

And feels no need or inclination to re-assure you.

Was part of DSM's upset that she does recognise that what they have done changes the saleable status of the house? With possible / probable consequences?

I don't think that bankruptcy means you just walk away from the debt. Isn't there sometimes a payment order afterwards? So decreasing the property value could be an issue.

To be honest, I have no issue with selling off everything you can, especially where it was added by you - like carpets, kitchen. BUT - only where it's legal - I.e. before the repossession. I would even necessarily judge someone Fi's keeping the cash over declaring it to creditor. Yeah it's wrong, but I'd do it. So not judging. But really stupid to strip the house when it wasn't his, without knowing the consequences. Mess or no mess.

sill no , Dsm felt her home had been violated.

There will be no payment scheme after the bankruptcy only legal fines are accountable - that's what I gather from talks with df

He will walk out debt free.

But will lose all any credit. Everything will have to be prepaid . Even mobile phone. He will not be allowed to apply for credit for 12 months but after that can start applying!
His credit will be shot to pieces though and will for ever be available for public record.
Sim only deals ect and slowly build it up again . People do it many times! Look at Kerry katona.

I think it is wrong not to have taken more care while portable asset stripping as it would violate my ethical standards - they got into a financial mess, and thanks to bankruptcy laws after a few years they can start again. Stripping sellable assets is ok but behaving completely carelessly when doing it because it's not yours anymore stinks, they should have had more self respect and respect for dsm's feelings even if a bit pointless for her to care.

I understand why your SM is upset but I wonder if your dp and FIL have actually been involved with more properties that have been repossessed?

I've visited lots as part of my job and most of them have had all the assets stripped and left in a bad state of disrepair. It may not be nice. It may not be ethical but it happens so often that it's an exception to see a repossession property in good condition.

It doesn't have a massive impact on value since once the kitchen and/or bathroom suite has been removed the house isn't of a habitable standard anyway and anyone purchasing a repossession property would expect to have cosmetic damage, have to renew the kitchen, usually most of the pipework throughout the house, and renew all bathroom fittings.

Personally I've always wondered why the owners do it before leaving but it is the norm. If your FIL and dp are used to working with such properties then I can see how the confusion arose.

Hmm...disposing of property at an undervalue whilst facing prospective bankruptcy is generally not lawful. Basically, your DF has been stealing from his creditors to give property to your DP.

Have a look at this page:

www.harringtonbrooks.co.uk/bankruptcy/assets

Not only is what Your DF and DP hav done upsetting for your DSM, but also it could have implications for you, and is morally and legally very dubious.

Sorry you are going through this.

So, OP, will you show this thread to your DP?

When a house is repossessed the old owner should aim to get as much money as possible from the sale. All costs are added to the mortgage debt, court costs, solicitors, arrears, lock smiths, surveyors (at least two), estate agents, auctioneers, costs to drain down the system, clear the property of chattels, house sitters for owners removing property etc etc etc. this can cost thousands, and the repossessed borrower is charged. The mortgage debt and the costs are added together and the repossessed borrower is chased for the debt.

Some owners (sensibly) clean and polish the house prior to the bailiffs arrival to maximise the sale price.

Why would anyone want to add to their debt. Any potential buyers will get a cheap, trashed house which they will no doubt make lots of money on! Occasionally the bank pay to make the property mortgageable (guess who pays for that -yep the defaulting borrower). If not it will be sold cheap to a cash buyer.

Often it is better to try and get a buyer by putting the house on the market. There is a way to sell the house for less than you owe ( you cite Halifax vs Barratt) (banks don't like it but it is totally possible), you then often owe less as you don't incur all the above costs.

Several years ago a documentary stated the average repossession cost the defaulting borrower £40000!

All your dp and fil have done is add to your father and stepmums debt.

If they're being made bankcrupt they don't get chased for the debt, surely?

I can quite see that people having their home repossessed may not feel that well-disposed to the bank and don't care for increasing the money that the bank can sell it for, when they aren't going to get any of the money they put into it themselves.

One final point, which may be a minor one. if your fil and stepmum lived in the street for years and wish to keep in contact with their old neighbours, you step mum may be upset that the neighbours will find out from the new owners that not only could they not afford their mortgage but their house was disgusting inside. This may be something that really upsets your stepmum.

Billy, if the bank sell the house for more than your mortgage plus costs this surplus comes back to the defaulting borrower. Irrelevant in this situation but may be handy for others to know. Usually people 'hand in the keys' to reduce the additional costs.

Would it not go to other creditors first though?

Worth remembering all the same.

Not that I'm planning on being made bankcrupt at any point ever, touch wood.

I was referring to someone only facing repossession not bankruptcy. However if they had equity it may have been possible to repay other debts following the sale, possibly preventing bankruptcy.

They are being made bankcrupt according to the OP.

I bought a repossession that had been trashed.

I had the satisfaction of knowing that the dickhead who trashed it was actually doing himself out of money as the house sold considerably under market value.

I could not bear to be in the same room as someone like your 'dp'.

People who do that are scumbags.

i havent read the whole thread so sorry if im repeating.

Could it be that your DH DF thought he was somehow 'helping' DF and DSM by 'sticking it to the man'?

they thought they were helping in some way... revenge on the new people, spoil it so the bank cant have it? immature maybe but not against your parents per se?

i find that quite normal and rational behaviour if someone is being made bankrupt and having their house repossessed
i dont actually agree with it. it is like vandalism, but it is what a lot of people do.
it must be upsetting to see your home gutted though

How can you find it normal and rational mercibucket? It is either adding to his own debt (if he intends to try and discharge himself from bankruptcy by paying off the debts) or else robbing the chance of decent, ordinary creditors being more fully paid for services and goods that the bankrupt person has bought and consumed. It is not a victimless vandalism.

normal as in lots of people do it when being repossessed and bankrupted

rational as in they are taking what they can use or sell, bankrupt is bankrupt, so may as well gut the place and get as much value from it as you can. the eventual sale price wont matter to them

vandalism, yes, and i dont agree with it, i also dont know the point at which it becomes behaviour that can see you arrested or sued, but logical