Compromise, but how much?

[catdoctor]

This could be long and boring, there's so much to say, but here are the bullet points. I've no girl friends so looking to MN for advice.

Me and DH been together 22 years, married 13.
I've compromised big time.
I've compromised on many deal breakers leaving me disrespecting myself.
I've compromised on matters against my better judgement.
I thought what you did was work at a relationship - but I've only just twigged you need to choose the right relationship to work on.
I'm suspicious DH has Asperger's - have had vg advice from MN on that - he will not enter any discussion on that front.
He's always there, doesn't cheat, doesn't judge or try and change me.
I am very lonely.
DS1 came along as a bit of surprise 3 years ago, I was so ready to love again and the intensity of the love has consumed me.
I made a deliberate decision to try for DS2 despite no real marriage and here he is. So much love I could weep.
So as I chose to have DCs in this vacuum, I think I have to stick it out.
No real option of 'do I stay or do I go'.
No way I'm sharing my DCs and only seeing them half the time. No judgement on anyone else's choices.
When in my cups, the only reasonable fantasy seems to be DH dies - but soon, so DCs can be less affected.

So, the question is, how do I find peace?

Hello?

Good question.

Have you had counselling?

What type of things have you compromised on?

Why do you think he has Aspergers, and how does it affect your relationship?

We should not need anyone else to be happy, and you could be happy enough with a good network of friends, with your children and if you do things you like. However, some people may make us unhappy. Is that the case?

Oh I've had that fantasy, but the bugger refuses to!

Would your husband fight for 50-50 custody?

Thank you for replies

No counselling - we haven't admitted to an issue - it's the elephant in the room. I'd be very pro but suspect DH wouldn't - see below...
Asperger's? Pathological lack of empathy, a profound and pure selfishness, inability to see the bleeding obvious, inability to anticipate events nor learn from them in order to escape stereotypical behaviour.

Compromise - hmmm, concrete matters eg living in crappy rented house as he had his fingers burned in property - I feel the lack of a home of my own very much. A lot of what I would call honour issues - borrowing friends' stuff without asking or treating it shoddily, stealing from employers. Appearing not to give a shit eg encouraging me to fly home with low grade bends after diving holiday - hence risking worsening the situation.

Lweji your comments hit the nail on the head. The ultimate compromise is living out this marriage without a soul mate, I think that's worse than poor sex!!

Imperial - can you believe it - he had a 90% occlusion in a coronary artery - that close to an mi - now they've bloody normalised him with stents - aargh!

Wrt custody, I'm not sure - I think he probably would

Cat doctor I could have written your post, down to shabby house he has no desire to improve, lack of empathy etc. I have 1 ds and want more but were in separate rooms! I'm not sure what the answer is!

Bordello I think it says something for our relationship that DH didn't bat an eyelid when I was initiating sex for the first time in about 100 years when I was after DS2!

Arrrgggh "compromise" is such a euphemism, innit?

I don't have my OED in front of me, but I believe that "compromise" should mean that parties meet - if notexactly in the middle - at least between their original points in a place where they can both be OK with the result.

It does NOT mean one person bows down repeatedly. It does NOT mean that one party regularly gets only about 20% of his/her "way" whilst the other one consistently gets 80%.

When one party either:

1. pressures the other to a "compromise" from the other (esp if they later hold the alleged compromise over the other's head), or
2. takes a mutually-agreed compromise and then turns it, through deliberate action or manipulation, into total capitulation.

It is just plain asshole-y. Seriously.

Cat I am sorry you are going through this and I hope you can work it out one way or another. I note you say that there is no way you are sharing your DC and only seeing them half the time. This was a major concern of mine when I separated from my EXH with two infants. The first time I met him in a car park and put the DC into baby seats in his car I thought the end of the world had come. As time went by I got used to the hand overs and felt a great relief that they went to their fathers and I got a break. It meant I kept my job, made friends and had spare time to myself and managed to get a life. I did the majority of the parenting but as time went by I was 100% able to say that the upside of marriage breakdown was that I got a break from the DC.

Try your best not to be too frightened by this scenario. You will always be their mum and unless he is abusive he deserves to be their dad and they need a father. You can find peace by believing that you are a capable parent who loves her children but who also deserves a life. There is life beyond separation and it is better than living in the hope that he dies and your children are bereaved. I hope you have some support from other separated parents. It is not the idea situation but it is not the end of the world if you do decide to separate. For my teenage DCs it is the norm for their friends' parents to separate and it is far from uncommon. Look after yourself.

Cat, do you seriously wish your husband dead?

Thank you for replies - what a relief to get some perspective

White insightful - a big thank you
Well on occasion, yes - but quickly, I don't want him to suffer! No but seriously, I suppose it's just the only was I see a resolution

My god what a life to decide to bring two children into.

Staying will give your children a truly terrible role model of love and marriage and relationships. Are you prepared for your daughter/son to follow your footsteps and remain in a loveless, respectless marriage. What would you say to them? You cannot hide your totally negative feelings from your children, they will pick up on them and copy them in their lives. And they will think this is normal and love. Sad.

You will only find peace by separating from this individual and so will your children.

What do you want to teach them about relationships here; surely not this awful dysfunctional model of one.

You also cannot assume at all that your H is on the ASD spectrum unless he has been properly diagnosed. You could well be wrong.

What you describe re, "Pathological lack of empathy, a profound and pure selfishness, inability to see the bleeding obvious, inability to anticipate events nor learn from them in order to escape stereotypical behaviour" on his part could also be described as abusive behaviour rather than AS. I doubt very much that he is anywhere on the ASD spectrum to be honest with you. Not really surprised either that he will not go to counselling; many abusers also take such a stance. I can see what he gets out of this, but you?.

Have you ever sought legal advice; I think you would find that your options are far more widespread that you care to believe, you seem woefully ground down which is not surprising really.

As Atilla says, his behaviour sounds more like total selfishness than ASD. Refusal to be diagnosed suggests to me that ASD is a good excuse for his shitty behaviour, most people I know who are on the spectrum have welcomed a formal diagnosis.

You say you have no girl friends - is that by choice, circumstances or drifting away over time?

You're asking how to endure a miserable life and a loveless relationship for the sake of being with your kids 7 days a week. Aside from saying the obvious that your kids are going to twig it's not normal (if they haven't already) and are not going to benefit from being brought up in that kind environment there are ways to cope.

Mostly it involves completely detaching from your husband emotionally and deriving all the missing elements of your life - love, companionship, fulfilment, purpose, sex, fun - from other things. You'd probably have to stop short of recruiting a replacement partner or that could get really messy and I don't think it would add to your self-esteem. But as a fake half-life, people do it all the time.

Just don't expect your kids one day to say 'gee Mum & Dad, thanks for being miserable & modelling a dysfunctional marriage to us all those years.... we really owe you one'.

OP - doesn't judge or try and change me. I am very lonely. is completely contradictory to your post in which you're saying you do all the compromising. & you're miserable.

Yet again, a man who isnt commiting emotionally to his partner, is described as having ASD. How many times will this diagnosis be seen on MN? We need to stop making excuses for men.

Your DH doesnt sound as if he has ASD at all. Sounds like a 'my way only' man who isnt that much bothered about you. & your self-esteem is eroding by being with a man who wont express love and emotional commitment to you. Emotional abusers are notorious for refusing to go to counselling - & even if they agree theyll bring you along just so they can use the tools gained in counselling to berate you with. They dont tend to go alone. You say a fantasy is your DH dying - so I guess you may stick it out until he does. Pretty sad fantasy to have.

You're better off seeking counselling alone so that you can understand why you love a man so much more than you love yourself, that you will dedicate yourself to a shell of a "relationship".

If you love your children as much as you say, then the environment that they grow up in should be more important to you than having to 'share' them. You wish their father dead in your fantasies. You have to put them first.
Be practical and make it work for you. E.g. try and match the time they spend with their dad to when you work, or can get practical things done. You will do them no favours by staying when you feel as you do.
If you leave then you are going to be happier and your DC will benefit too. He doesn't sound, from your post, like he will actually like giving up a lot of time to the practical side of caring for DC, do you think he will base his claim for access on trying to hurt you? If so,try not to react. Maybe suggest 50:50 yourself, if he doesn't think he's point scoring,you might find better ground for everyone. As a selfish the reality of 50:50 would horrifying him.

ASD are NOT characterised by selfishness! People with ASD may have difficulty imagining how the world seems from another persons perspective, so their behaviour can seem single-minded to the point of selfishness. But it is not the same thing at all. Most of the people I have known with ASD have cared very very deeply about other people, but occasionally express this in socially inappropriate ways - in a romantic relationship this might mean watching somebody do something over the top in a film and then try and recreate it in real life in a way that looks awkward and embarassing. And sometimes, especially when their efforts have failed, they may withdraw because communicating emotions is so very hard.

As for honour issues - I think most people with ASD are pathologically honest not dishonest. Petty stealing violates a fairly simple code, and most people with ASD prefer to live by simple codes to cope. They might steal if they lacked awareness from context that the behaviour was wrong. But they are unlikely to do it for kicks with full moral knowledge.

You are describing emotional abuse.

BUT it is beyond dysfunctional for your children to grow up with someone you wish was dead. If counselling is not an option you need to separate. Arrangements for childcare are arrangements for another day. Wishing someone dead is an expression of hatred and your children cannot thrive in a household where at least one of the adults hates the other.

Pathological lack of empathy
a profound and pure selfishness
borrowing friends' stuff without asking or treating it shoddily,
stealing from employers.
Appearing not to give a shit eg encouraging me to fly home with low grade bends after diving holiday

I doubt that's ASD. That's just selfish, immoral, entitled behaviour. It's no way to live. And your relationship is not one to model to DCs - they will grow up to repeat it in their own adult lives.

Leave him, for yours and your DSs' sakes.

Entitled arses usually threaten to go for full/shared custody, as a way to threaten and control you, but when it comes down to it they can't be arsed with childcare. You will still have your DSs with you the majority of the time.

doesnt sound like ASD to me, agree with the others, sounds like abusive behaviour.
I know sometimes its safer to think that its ASD than accept its abuse, because accepting that implys far more in regards to the other persons beliefs and behaviour and also throws a spotlight onto why you are staying/allowing that type of relationship.
I can understand how you feel that all your love is poured into your children, and due to that you dont want to share them, but this is really dysfunctional. Children need love, but they dont need to be overwhelmed and smopthered by that love, and to have totally responsiblity for filling the emotional void of your souless marriage. Also they need to grow up strong enough to leave, and you need to develop that independance.
Get away from this man and you provide a space for someone who can fill the role of partner and give you that adult emotional support.
I doubt he will want 50/50. He may say he will. He may initially try to have it, but if he is as fundamentally selfish as you say I would imagine 2 kids would be too demanding of his time and attention.

I think regardless of whether he has ASD or not, it's not a healthy relationship. For you or for your children.

You can choose to live alone in this relationship or leave. If you leave, and if your children are little, it's not likely that it will be 50-50. Particularly if he doesn't interact much with them, and if he could be dangerous for them.

Talk to someone. WA, solicitor, HV, for example. You could collect evidence as to why he should not have them 50-50. And, after a while, you will relish having a day or two of rest from the children, as much as you love them. :)

Thank you all for thoughtful replies;
Yes to...

Poor role model for DCs
No need to censure me on my choices - I am my own worst critic
I think the responsible thing to do for DCs and me is leave but I am a) exhausted holding it together and b) as product of divorce, compelled to avoid it
I'm well aware of dangers of internet diagnosis re ASD - Many mnetters gave me advice re that - suspect wouldn't be resolved anyway.
Yes to the concept of a 'half life' I suppose that's what I'm planning - better the devil you know?
Wishing someone dead is an expression of hatred - I think you're right - that's grim.

You've all articulated what I've already thought - but I'm still paralysed - I've just got on with it for so long, it's hard to consider action. I suppose that's a cop out.

BTW he's kind, loving and patient with DCs, just me then.

It's not a cop out. Ending a marriage is a very serious and very stressful business. As the marriage ceremony says... not to be entered into unadvisedly or lightly. There are huge implications and it involves a lot of upheaval and change for all concerned, even if the ultimate outcome is that you have a better life than the one you currently enjoy/endure. So it's daunting, off-putting and no-one should criticise you for being in at least two minds about it. 'Doing nothing' is therefore a reasonable response.

However, what I would also say is that it costs nothing to find out what separation would look like in practice, make a few inquiries and get a bit of professional information around you. Test the emotional support water a little by confiding in a trusted friend perhaps. The unknown.... unadvisedly.... is always frightening.

Presumably you are kind, loving and patient with the DCs too?

But from your children's POV living in a house with two people who independently interact well with you, but interact terribly with each other, or where one feels miserable all the time will be very confusing

And it is not your fault you feel unhappy. You don't have some unilateral duty to put up or shut up.

ACTION PLAN
Suggest counselling tonight. If he says yes call Relate tomorrow.

If he refuses call Relate anyway. They can offer counselling to you individually if he will not go with you. You clearly have intense feelings about your childhood experience of divorce and discussing those with a counsellor will help you even if joint counselling isn't an option.