Affects of parents arguing and rowing on children

[libra35]

I’m in my mid 30s and I cannot deal with even the most basic of conflict – it causes me terrible stress. For example I wouldn’t even send restaurant food back if something was wrong with it. And I’m prone to anxiety and low self esteem. Having visited my parents at the weekend, it’s now beginning to dawn on me why I am, like I am. My parents started having a terrible argument and it was almost like I was a ten year old rather than a married, adult woman. I started shaking and I felt terrified. My heart rate was racing, I felt sick and I barely slept that night. I was also embarrassed because the row was in front of my husband and another guest. I seemed incapable of handling it and still 48 hours later, I am still thinking and stressing about it.
My mother has often said that I lost my confidence when I was about 10 and she has always blamed my school. However, I loved my school and for me this is when I remember my parents starting to really row. I dreaded the weekends because my father would be around and I knew there would be awful rows. I woke up every Saturday morning to screaming. I would go to bed with my ears in my fingers so I didn’t hear them shouting. Whilst there was absolutely no physical violence in the house, my father was and is prone to a terrible tempers which would blow up about nothing so I would often walk around on egg shells. I was always on my guard and on the lookout for things that would set the arguments off. I hated the way Dad would shout at Mum but my siblings and I often were at the end of it as well – calling us ‘useless’ and ‘stupid’ children on many occasions. Even on their 40th wedding anniversary, we all went for a trip somewhere to celebrate (haha) and there were bad tempers and arguments before we got there. And then like usual it calmed down and they were chatting jovially again. Yet muggins here couldn’t relax because I found it too stressful.

I’m not out to blame my parents here but I’m just trying to understand whether the affects of the rows in childhood can cause anxiety or confidence issues in later life. I would love to understand why I can’t deal with their rows or anyone else’s and why it causes me so much stress. Did anyone else have rowing parents and did it affect you?

Yes and yes. I'm older than you and felt exactly the same way for a long time. I grew up a peace-maker, a people-pleaser, a conflict avoider and, whilst that can be useful on occasions, it has also caused me problems.

Changed for me the day I visited with a very young DS, they started one of their rows, and he got very upset and started shouting 'stop it! stop it!' DM rounded on him and told him not to be rude & I just saw red. Haven't tolerated it since and feel much better for doing so.

Suggest you challenge them as well. They have no right to make you or anyone else feel uncomfortable.

I think there is a massive difference between witnessing two mentally healthy adults having an argument about crumbs on the worktop or the latest government policy and an argument involving an emotionally abusive bully picking on the vulnerability of his family. That is a horrible thing to witness.

What is interesting is that your mother obviously tried to defend herself and you see it as 'arguing' in a way laying the blame as equally on her doorstep. Why do you think she was arguing back (genuine interest, not criticism)?

I don't think there is a massive difference, actually. It's the nastiness with which the argument is conducted that is the upsetting part, not the fact that they disagree.

yes, my parents rowing still effects me today. I suffer from awful anxiety as a result of drunken arguments and sometimes violence. my father has an awful temper and me and mum would live walking on egg shells not to set him off. god forbid something broke. even now in my own home if something breaks I panic and apologise loads to my DP and he's mortified that I'm like this. he's witnessed my dads temper and hes been my rock. my dad has improved over the years but he still is controlling in some ways. Their arguments would be very explosive and I was petrified. I would hide under my duvet and have my headphones on full blast so I couldn't here. of course I'd be distraught and my mum would try and cover it over and tell me I was being silly . she sees how happy my DD is and how happy me and DP are and you can tell she's heartbroken that I grew up in a volatile environment but that she's glad my DD is happy. my sister moved out as soon as she was 18.

yeah, the nastiness can be horrible. Also if they are strong personalities the sheer forcefulness of difficult emotion floating around can be scary

It's not the rowing, it's seeing the way people treat each other during the argument and crucially seeing the resolution.

We always argue in front of any children we look after. We don't hide it or pretend it isn't happening. We don't sulk or have those horrible whispered arguments where children pick up on the atmosphere. We never personally criticise each other during the argument.

We do disagree and say we disagree and we do resolve it in front of them. As a result of this they get to see a 'healthy' disagreement and a resolution.

This worries me because I am shouting at Dh quite a lot. My dd is 4. He works long hours but when he is home he gets on my nerves! He winds me up .. I know this is wrong but never thought about the lasting effect on dd. I have been thinking of asking him to leave because he doesn't take on board the stuff I say to him. It is so frustrating

sorry maybe a trigger if you read on. I would stand and focus on the large fish tank and wet myself when she argued with my stepdad. He was a very timid gentle man. She would goad him with her affairs and call him a stupid cunt for putting up with it when he would walk away from her not wanting to entertain it she would lay into him. Punching, kicking, biting.the blood, black eyes, split lips were awful. And he never ever retaliated.
Me and my siblings would find rooms to go into scared. She would abuse as kids also. To this day I hate confrontation and will please people that seem to go all out to EA me and I take it. I have a ds and would not ever want him to witness anything like what I have seen from my parents as it scars for life.

@LaurieFairyCake... you're describing a healthy disagreement and I think you're quite right, your DCs will take from it that people can disagree, argue a point, compromise, resolve etc., it doesn't have to get acrimonious and - crucially - you can still love each other at the end.

It's the petty squabbling, the silent mealtimes, and the sniping over nothing at all that is so upsetting and I'm sorry not2nitedarling, but that's what you're describing.

Agree that healthy arguments are good, and even children seeing anger being dealt with in a controlled manner (but still clearly anger).

I do think there is a huge personality thing involved. My Dad is quite explosive, but it is rare and usually a response to my Mum's constant nagging (she is the opposite of explosive, seething with resentments etc.). I am more like my Dad's temperament so outward anger generally doesn't bother me much, or scare me. When he gets angry, I can shout at him, we have a good 'row' and are friends again in 5 minutes. I find it hard to deal with the 'seethers' (Dh is more one of these).

Neither way of dealing with conflict is good and Laurie's way is definitely the way to be, but I think when you have a child who is unlike you, it is a lot more damaging.

Oh god yes. My parents always had (still do) the most awful rows. Screaming, throwing things, storming out... and it had such a long lasting effect on me.

Worse than the shouting though was the constant sniping. They still do that today. Look at each other with loathing.

tbh, I wish one or other of them had just packed a bag.

Staying together for the kids. yeah. Thanks for that. I owe you one.

Libra, I think what you describe are not rows. There is emotional abuse involved there too, and this is a lot more damaging than the row itself.

I think horsetowater hit the nail on the head saying it is an 'argument' when in fact your Mum may be defending herself.

I have to add from the other end of the scale, i was very very lucky not to witness abusive rows and violence.....but in fact i NEVER witnessed ANY conflict whatsoever. Apparently my parents with the best will in the world made a pact that they would never argue in front of us, nor did i hear any "after hours" arguments. As adults, the effect on me and my siblings is that we were useless at conflict and confrontation in our own lives, we had never seen a "normal" disagreement, arguement and then the resolution that follows, the net result being in our adult lives if we were involved in a conflict - part of normal relationships, none of us could cope with it, it terrified us, we've discussed this many times as adults (we are now 38, 40 and 42) we couldn't stand up for ourselves, thought conflict naturally meant "the end", found it very traumatic. Over the years we've made headway but it's been hard, none of us find self expression easy. I think if we had seen our parents go through normal conflict then resolution, it would have done us a favour. But bless my parents, they made that pact with a loving motivation, i can't blame them.

I don't see much difference either; whether it's defending yourself or arguing. If it's done in front of children, all they will see and hear is anger expressed through gritted teeth. It's horrible.

My DH's parents were like this. And the constant sniping, too. He absolutely hates arguments, and pretty much shuts down conversationally if I disagree with him over something, which I sometimes find frustrating because it can be difficult to engage him and actually resolve anything.

On the other hand, I grew up in a household where my parents rarely argued, but also rarely spoke at all, and spent most of their time in separate rooms. No warmth in the relationship at all. Not ideal either.

wallaby I wondered how that would be ... what would happen when you don't see any conflict-handling and conflict-resolution

So there really is a happy medium. Interesting Wallaby that your parents never had arguments and you are no good with conflict either. Lauriefairycake seems to have mastered the healthy disagreement and resolution scenario. I think it’s so important for kids to see a resolution plus see that their parents like each other. Very hard if the parents don’t like each other! However, I never saw resolutions growing up and rather it was my father normally storming off or giving the silent treatment, ultimately leaving me scared of what was going on. It’s odd that I’m still scared of them splitting up even today, although I’m sure they would be much nicer on their own.

Horsetowater – interesting point. I’ve always associated the really bad rows growing up with my father’s bad tempers. My mother probably was defending us and herself. Actually though my mother can lose her rag as well...over nothing. She can nitpick at my father and stubbornly disagree over nothing as if goading him for an argument. It’s tedious to listen to and it’s exhausting to be around and I then feel sorry for my dad. Perhaps after 40 years they just loathe and irritate each other!

Marigold – when my brother and I spoke about it last year, he did say it was emotional abuse. My father is controlling and a bully . But I find it uncomfortable to say this because paradoxically, he can be a very kind, generous and charming man.

So yes civilised arguments are fine but children witnessing personal, sniping and nasty rows can be damaged.

Actually though my mother can lose her rag as well...over nothing. She can nitpick at my father and stubbornly disagree over nothing as if goading him for an argument.

I'm sure there's someone on here who can give you a really good explanation of why someone who has been in an emotionally abusive or controlling relationship with someone for forty years behaves like this.

Wallaby i had a similar experience. My parents were lovely, kind and supportive, but always parents in front of us, rather than people. United and focused on the task of giving us a great childhood. They didn't like any sort of conflict, even a good old debate and if things got even mildly out of hand things would be shut down. I never ever heard them cross with each other but I know now that they definitely did.

I only talked about this to my brother last year, even though we're both in our forties and it was a revelation when he said it had really affected him too.

As a result I found arguments very hard to take and always assumed they represent a full stop.

DH and I have hum-dinging rows and sometimes DS overhears. He also sees us make up and show affection. I don't feel that bad about it quite honestly.

Libra35. My parents had vicious rows up to their divorce when I was 16. My Mum still screamed abuse at me in my 40's which is why I went NC.

More than 30 years later it still affects me, I also have low self esteem and cannot accept criticism. I used to be very scared and passive but unfortunately I am more aggressive now! I think I was unable to learn how to resolve conflict because i never had a positive role model. I think you feel stress because it reminds you of being utterly powerless and frightened.

I don't think the arguments are the issue at all - it's the atmosphere. If the parents love each other and ultimately want to be where they are, then arguments are unlikely to be damaging.

My father was in a vicious nasty rage every single morning throughout my teenage years. Anything would set him off. He was always hung over. My teenage perception of my dm was that she just sat and took it passively. I couldn't understand either of them but whatever happens to you when you are young, it imprints as "normal" at some level. Yes it had a huge impact on me. I took ages to find a good man as a partner because I just had no model for a relationship AT ALL. I became anorexic in my twenties and had the most awful time. I made some terrible choices with men because I didn't recognise useless partners for what they are, and my self esteem was so low I didn't realise that I didn't have to put up with it. Very painful learning curve.

Two points on the plus side though:
There was a time for several years (I was in my thirties) when the team I worked with were treated very badly by our boss, who was capable of horrendous rants and verbal bullying. It was water off a duck's back to me. I could literally just ignore the ranting and keep talking to him as if he was normal. I thought he was so pathetic that I couldn't care less what he thought of me.
Secondly, my mother always whispered to me "make sure you have a career so you can leave your husband if he treats you badly". So I did, and yes, that's not altogether bad advice. To this day, and no matter how lovely my dh is, I would struggle to give up financial independence though.

Libra, I am 48 years of age and have had anxiety and low self estee since I was a child due to my parents rowing. Even the periods of calm were filled with anxiety because we were always waiting for it to erupt. Actually the calm periods were equally as bad because you didn't dare hope it would last. I had stomach pains throughout my entire childhood that only went away when I moved to a different country at 18 years of age. I had nightmares about it until I was about 28. Without meaning to denigrate the experiences of anyone being exposed to abuse I would say we were cared for, we were not physically abused, we were fed and clothed but despite all this their constant war took it's toll on all of my brothers and sisters. Even though we are all in our 40's, coming 50, we honestly are still affected in our relationships with others. We all like a drink and sometimes to an unhealthy degree.

It is for these reasons that I absolutely shudder when I read posts from parents who say they are staying together for the sake of the children. I walked into a dreadful marriage because I was trying to keep the peace. I still struggle with assertiveness and confidence.

interesting thread - I grew up witnessing dreadful rows and was similarly people pleaser/conflict avoider (counselling helped) I'm now a lone parent as exh left and I worry a lot about how this affects dcs but this thread has made me think a bit differently, given the rows exh and I would be having if together now. They don't see an adult relationship in action at all though, but it's a happy home- we have a few little arguments between us which we talk through and those are rare.

Hermione, I think you are doing the right thing and I think you should stop worrying so much. You sound like you are doing a good job talking through rows with your children. I tell my teenage DC that even though we have massive rows and I mean massive, that the rows come to an end and that anger is not always destructive if it exists in a functional environment. I walked into an abusive marriage thinking I could fix it by avoiding conflict and pleasing people and it invariably ended in tears. Your DC don't have to see any other adult relationship in action to know what respect means.