Affairs ... Does a bad mother make ???

[JodiA]

So, I was reading a thred over on NMs a few days back, started by an obviously very bitter lady, whose hubby had cheated on her (she stayed with him) but she had extremely strong opinions about the other woman and seemed to take great pleasure in referring to her as 'bitch', 'skank', 'slut' and the like!

Anyway, I'm impartial on this subject, however she posted that she believed every woman who cheats with a married man, is the worlds worst mother (obvs if she has kids) to which I couldn't help but join the thread at that stage as I strongly believe that's a very dismissive statement to make!

The thread erupted with mainly posters in agreement with her, then the minority who were probably being more realistic about life, and the fact that nothing is as 'black and white' as some people like to think.

Having been on both sides of an affair (not just once), I'd be interested in hearing your opinions, especially re the 'bad mother' statement ...

Please don't gang up on me !!

Hugely emotive subject and one that always divides opinion, sometimes (understandably) due to personal experience.

I have recently witnessed an acquaintance who outwardly and to her family had a wonderfully happy life. 30, very good looking husband who idolised her, they had a 3-yr old toddler. She had an affair, left her husband in October (who is devastated) and is already moving in with new man who she has known for 6 months.

Now, we don't know precisely what was going on in the marriage. She herself says her husband did nothing wrong. She, basically, enjoyed being out too much and being the centre of attention, rather than staying at home with husband and child and enjoyed the excitement of her 'old life' again. It was, of course, her choice to marry and have a child.

Should the new man have kept away, knowing she was married? Possibly.

Does it make her a bad mother? Quite possibly, as I think it is extremely unfair on the 3-yr old to be uprooted from her father and within a couple of months be living with another man she barely knows. Regardless of my opinion on affairs - I don't think they are ever justified; if you are unhappy, talk, if you are still unhappy, leave and THEN have a new relationship - I think that is bad parenting.

...complicated, and all cases are different but in general I can't empathise those that cheat with married people for a length of time. 'One-offs' are more understandable, but to be complicit in the deception involved in a more lengthy affair indicates (to me, at least) great selfishness.

I am always surprised that parents have the time for an affair - surely if you are busy with family life, have a job, the usual domestic comitments etc etc then I don't see how you can really 'fit in' an affair! I read on here about someone with three children under 5 who still managed an affair - she must have good time management skills.

I think anyone who has an affair, whether or not they have children, is taking the cowardly way out and being very selfish about putting their own needs first. As notnew says - if you aare unhappy, talk about it, leave and then start an new relationship (or preferably have a break and learn to live with yourself). And yes, I have experienced this.

When it's the other way around and there's an op saying my dh had an affair but he's a good father. People are quick to point out 'a good father doesn't treat the mother of his child like that so he's not that great a father is he?'
So presumably the same could be said this way around

TheWomanTheyCallJayne - See, I'd never claim a man is a bad father merely for having an affair (btw on Mumsnet, can you quote somebody elses post so that it shows in your reply?) sorry, slightly off the page there!

Ragwort - I know what you mean !! And guess 'time management skills' would be their strength on their CV

But affairs often occur in the workplace (in my experience) and around work time

Of course it doesn't make you a bad mother (or father) - it's impossible to generalise because there are so many reasons for affairs. Affairs happen, the aftermath can be awful, but it doesn't follow that everyone who has an affair is a wicked person who doesn't deserve to have a family. Plenty of married people do bad things - does that mean that anyone who transgresses is equally undeserving of a family life? 'Course not.

The Good, the Bad and Ugly all have affairs.

I think a lot of people think that bad spouse = bad parent, I don't buy that. Some women who have affairs are bad mothers, some are not, some are trying to get away from bad men, some are leaving good men, some men who have affairs leave bad mothers, some leave good mothers etc etc.

Just because you wouldn't call someone a bad father for having an affair doesn't mean no-one would.

If there are troubles in a marriage, they are better worked on by the couple, or if insoluble, then by ending the marriage. Adding the devastation of betrayal is in no-one's best interests.

And just think how different family life would look if all the effort of running a secret affair, and all the emotional energy, was put into the family instead.

Of course it's harmful.

SirChenjin - I totally agree, these are exactly my feelings on the subject, but over on the mentioned thread on Netmums I was completely crucified for sharing this view!

The opinions stated on Netmums should be taken with a bog scoop of salt

Affairs can be harmful and often are, but it doesn't follow that people who have affairs are bad parents any more than it follows that happily married people who do 'bad' things are bad parents.

big not bog obv

Surely a father who is having an affair is showing a complete lack of respect for his partner (ie: the mother of his children) - whether or not that makes him a 'bad' father is open to intepretation but I would suggest it makes him a very selfish person and poor role model to his children. (The same applies to a woman having an affair).

I have a friend who is having an affair.

She is a very good mother.

Having an affair which by it's very nature carries a not insignificant risk of bringing conflict and perhaps huge changes in the child's world..... cannot be siad to be making a priority of a child's need for stability over a parental desire for excitiment/romance/drama+crisis/sexual titillation.

For me that is acid test I apply to my (not always steller) behavoir as a human that also happens to be a mother. By asking myself...Am I making my wants a priority over my child's needs?

That question rarely fails to cut through the waffle, rationalisations and smoke/mirrors to tell me the truth when I'm barrelling off track.

Fluffy - how would the child/ren feel if they knew their mother was having an affair?

As a parent, I would be very disappointed if my own child was to have an affair if they were in a committed relationship - how can it be any different the other way round?

There are all sorts of 'bad' role models as parents. Here's one small one as an example - my lovely neighbour, not having an affair (afaik!), adores her DH and DCs, regularly speeds around the place (and I mean speeds) whilst talking on her mobile phone with the DCs in the car. To me, that is very poor behaviour and sets a bad example to her DCs on a number of different levels.

What I'm trying to say (badly) is that behaving one way does not make you a bad parent. It may show a complete lack of moral judgement in one area of your life (politicians, bankers, energy company bosses, Kirsty Allsop...you know the type of thing ), but it doesn't follow that you are a poor parent.

I think anyone that has an affair is the lowest of the low but not necessarily a bad parent.

If your having an affair then your parenting suffers, your child misses out because your off somewhere shagging then that's bad parenting.

As for the poster calling the woman a skank, slut etc. well she's right isn't she. The men are also to blame bla de bla.

I can't think of a situation where having an affair could be considered acting in the best interests of your children and, as I think parents should do this, I guess I agree with her.

Same for fathers too, of course.

The same can be said for many things though. If you're a parent who works all the hours and never sees your DCs, then you're a bad parent; if you're a parent who does a dangerous job which carries a risk of death (forces, police, bomb disposal etc), then you're a bad parent for potentially robbing your child of a parent when there are safe office jobs you could do; if you're a parent who takes part in dangerous sports (walking to the north pole, sky diving etc) which again could rob a child of its parent, putting them through terrible but avoidable grief you're a bad parent; if you work in an industry which is morally corrupt (see my previous post) then you're a bad parent...

Of course, the above is utter rubbish - but the analogy is there.

People don't always act in the best interests of their children.

Most parents try to most of the time.

Having an affair is obviously a less than desirable behaviour but I doubt many people deliberately set out to have affairs or put a lot of objective thought into their behaviour and the consequences of it as they are sliding towards infidelity. This means we can do all the moralising we like about thinking about the children but I doubt it is possible to do in practice.

I also think how much disruption it causes children is down to all involved once it is done. I have limited sympathy, as people have probably seen, with any parent - the cheater or the cheated on, who gets involved in bitter and vengeful fighting after an affair because I think this is bad parenting.

An adult's sexual relationships are not really something the children should be drawn into and I think there is a tendency as had previously been said, to conflate bad spouse with bad parent. Sometimes the reasons you're a bad spouse e.g. Dv, sexual incontinence, emotional incontinence etc are also the reasons you're a bad parent.

It is possible to say the way in which the affair is handled is bad parenting I think but it applies to all involved, equally to the cheated bitter partner who is prolonging the children's misery (as is possibly happening with that NM thread).

I've no intention to martyr myself to my children's best interests either btw... I'm a person with needs and I think my children need to learn that about me so, although I'm not talking about affairs here, I will deliberately prioritise myself over the children when I think it is appropriate.

I'm sure her DC would be devastated.

But she is a good mum.

Sir

The thing is, in the examples you give there is a fair old wollop of parental need (like creating income required to support children by doing what you know how to do, and are good at) plus the potential for modelling positive attitudes. Like tenacity, serving the public, determination and playing to your strengths.

The same cannot be said for the entirely self serving act of an affair or speeding. Plus both model poor impulse control and the ability to ignore known consequences for so many beyond the pairing in the centre.

My father was a fighter pilot. While it would have been excriciating to have lost him in '78 when he had to eject in order to save 6 lives (helicoper in the way) I would have been able to be proud of who he was, and from whence I came. Hell I was proud of him, battered, bruised, half an inch shorter (in those day you smashed the canpoy with your helmet) and missing several teeth. I was so proud of him I wholly believed he could do anything, and by extension... so could I.

As it is I lost him anyway ..plus my home, my family as an intact and non constantly conflictual unit, 6 years later to his affair.

And while obviously time does soften and diminish the rawness of scars, I spent an inordinatly long time dogged by a sense of shame at his ability to have ridden roughshod over so very many people's lives and feelings. Almost like I come from tainted stock.

I suspect that the bereaved children of say a .... bomb disposal expert and a drunk driver who managed to hurt other people in their final exploit, probably have quite different journies in their grief.

And I expect the same can be said of children of divorce when the circumstances and emotional rough seas of transistion look entirely different.