Affairs ... Does a bad mother make ???

[JodiA]

So, I was reading a thred over on NMs a few days back, started by an obviously very bitter lady, whose hubby had cheated on her (she stayed with him) but she had extremely strong opinions about the other woman and seemed to take great pleasure in referring to her as 'bitch', 'skank', 'slut' and the like!

Anyway, I'm impartial on this subject, however she posted that she believed every woman who cheats with a married man, is the worlds worst mother (obvs if she has kids) to which I couldn't help but join the thread at that stage as I strongly believe that's a very dismissive statement to make!

The thread erupted with mainly posters in agreement with her, then the minority who were probably being more realistic about life, and the fact that nothing is as 'black and white' as some people like to think.

Having been on both sides of an affair (not just once), I'd be interested in hearing your opinions, especially re the 'bad mother' statement ...

Please don't gang up on me !!

I will deliberately prioritise myself over the children when I think it is appropriate.

Quite. I think it is not only appropriate that children learn their parents are actual real live humans too, it is essential. Failing to make a priority of parental need in order to satify a child's want makes no sense to me at all.

But an affair is not a parental need. And stability in the family unit is not a mere want on the part of a child.

I think having an affair is one of the most selfish things anyone can do. There is never any excuse. If you want to start a new relationship just leave first.

Does it make you a shit parent? If a child finds out that their parent has cheated then it is likely to change their childhood forever so yes IMO it makes you a bad parent.

An affair can make a person a bad parent, when the OW/OM becomes more important than their child. I remember being at Peppa Pig World and watching DD have fun splashing around in the water play. I looked at my then H to smile and say, look at her having such fun, only to see him glued to his mobile phone. He was texting OW, I later discovered from his mobile bills, right the way through our family holiday.

So yes, it did make him a bad parent, because instead of spending time with his DD, he was more concerned with texting OW all the time. She had all his attention and she wasn't even there.

Since we have divorced, he has cast DD aside on some of his days with her, in order to go to pop concerts with OW, to go out on OW birthday and to go on holiday with OW and her H.

As a father and the NRP, who only sees his DD for 4 days a month, he should put DD first on those days and he doesn't, so yes, having an affair does make HIM a bad parent. (OW is still married to his best mate).

Yeah, carpe I'm not talking about affairs there just worrying about the parent martyrdom.

Skye - I remember your story, how he wouldn't admit the affair but moved in with ow and her husband... :/

I think in his case he was probably a bad parent full stop tbh.

Yes, as an affair usually results in the break up of a family (or at least immense upset of which DC WILL be aware) and is a deliberate act (i.e. you can't 'accidentally' have an affair). Deliberately causing pain and upset to your children for the sake of a sneaky shag would be pretty crap parenting IMO.

there just worrying about the parent martyrdom.

I am with you on that. I remain unconvinced that creating mini dicators is a very good idea.

I exist as a human despite having produced a child. I will do my best to make a priority of his needs over my wants. But I also think it is to his benefit to learn that the equation is quid pro quo.

There are two aspects to this; what parenting is like when the affair is going on and then the consequences to children afterwards.

While it's going on, I imagine like any all-consuming addiction, it must take a lot away from other aspects of life. More so if the addiction is secret.

But that doesn't just affect parenting. It can cause people to let down work colleagues, commit work fraud (fiddling days off/expenses), perform badly etc. I can't imagine anyone would be a very 'present' parent either, if you were glued to your phone, constantly looking for time away to see or be in contact with the other person or with the bulk of your thoughts elsewhere. Some people make unreasonable requests of friends to lie for them too, so friendships suffer.

Then there's the potential aftermath of relationship breakdown and divorce.

I'm not sure why this question is just directed at mothers though? I tend to have a bee in my bonnet about women and mothers being expected to behave better than men and fathers, so bristled a bit when I saw the thread title.

It is impossible to gauge the nuances of a relationship on an online thread (I would put DV maybe outside of this) . Good educated guesses certainly but no one really knows the ins and outs of a relationship unless you are the two in it. It's too black and white to say affair=crap parenting. We don't really know do we? Every situation is different.

My dad had affairs and was a rubbish parent but that had nothing to do with his affairs. He was just hopeless in general. Another of my friends had an affair but was brilliant with her kids.

I dislike it too when I see people saying ex H or P was devastated when they left, they hadn't done anything wrong blah blah. You just never know. I was on the receiving end of that. Although I had had was I now see was the beginnings of an emotional relationship with now dh and I am so glad I did as it gave me the spur that I needed to end a terrible marriage and relationship that should never have been in the first place. I had been thinking about ending it since before getting married and I certainly wasn't cheating - and it was the biggest relief to walk out the door for the last time.

Perhaps the cheater was pressured into a marriage they never wanted, or perhaps behind closed doors things are not as perfect as they seem - bad sex (made me feel hideous and unattractive), non existent communication or just very poorly matched but the man is too idle/scared/lazy to end it so it (or the woman too but men seem to prefer to coast - that could be unfair so apologies for the sweeping judgement).

Or sometimes people are just toxic, not denying that. If it's the latter it normally is shining through in other ways and an affair is not all there is too it.

We just don't know really do we? I like to think that I try to not be (too) judgemental.

Sorry I would add that if the affair leads to a parent ending the relationship then in the long run it is better for the family as the atmosphere would be horrible if people stay together when they are unhappy. The problem arises when it's serial and there's a parade of different 'parents' or the couple are still together but the affairs continue. The former must be destabilising and the latter creating an awful atmosphere?

I think it varies enormously from one person to another. Where an affair is a pre-meditated and deliberate selfish act, in most cases that level of selfishness is likely to permeate other areas of that person's behaviour, including their parenting abilities.

Where an affair is more 'accidental' or misguided (as in an unhappy person meets someone who temporarily makes them happy and allows themselves to go along with an affair when the opportunity presents itself), it's not quite the same. You could argue that it still demonstrates less-desirable personal qualities, such as the capacity for deceit, a lack of impulse control, lack of self-awareness, chronic procrastination and avoidance tendencies, etc. And you could go on to argue that these traits do not make a good parent. But if you do that you have to apply the same rules to other actions that can result in similar behaviours. I think if you do that, most of us will be found guilty of poor parenting to some degree, as the biggest influence a parent has over their child is through the modelling of their own behaviour.

It's entirely possible for people to learn from mistakes and the guilt and voyage of self discovery that follow them, often starting with the consequence of losing their family unit). Sometimes a parent can become a better parent as the result of an affair that's had horrible fall out. Whether that can ever undo the damage inflicted in the process is unique to each situation.

Nothing is that clear cut.

What proportion of affairs are discovered?

Very few I would have thought.

It is damaging to your children if the affair becomes known and this applies to both parents. It often seems to create a lifelong issue for long term relationsips and commitment.

The person having the affair is lacking respect for their partner and children by putting their own wanting for excitement ahead of their family's need for security.

Parents who stay together aren't generally thanked for doing so 'for-the-kids'

I'm reminded of this:

www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/178055

cant you raise a really interesting point about children being affected by parents having affairs. As mentioned my dad was always off with other women and a shite parent in general and for me it meant that I would never dream of putting another person through what my mum had to go through.

I thought my brother felt the same as well. I was left with jaw to floor when he had an affair after an exceedingly difficult time at home (he has 1 child). He really regrets it now. But I can sort of see why he did it even if I can't agree with it if that makes sense because of all the circumstances that led to it. Still think he should have just had an open conversation about it with sil but he's a terrible communicator.

I wonder how many affairs are just avoidance of addressing problems at home as in it's easier to sleep with someone else than speak to your own life partner about things

I can't express an opinion about women in affairs but I can categorically state that my h was a piss poor father when he was in an affair - distracted, disinterested, short-tempered, sulky... However that might be another symptom of his MLC or which the affair was another.

I guess it depends on the nature of the affair and how mature and responsible the parties involved are.

I think they are often avoidance of problems with life but those problems don't necessarily reside within the main relationship, either exclusively or even at all. Although a lot of people claim they only acted badly because of a miserable relationship that they didn't want to tackle in an upfront way, there are plenty more who have affairs because of untackled misery or dissatisfaction with other areas of life, such as a bad work situation, stress, bereavement or just coping with getting old and the changes that heralds.

Being the ow doesn't make you a bad mother. But it does emphasise the character flaws and selfishness they possess. Knowing that your behaviour could destroy a family and continuing to do it does not make you a nice person. Most people would be appalled.

It isn't a matter of being great with your kids, as in playing with them, reading to them, etc.

It's a matter of keeping them safe from harm. Having an affair is almost like playing with your children in traffic. You don't know what will hit you and when.

And I do know what I'm talking about. I had to tell my children that their dad was leaving and it was the most awful thing I've ever had to do.

I kind of agree it does. For me if you are having an affair, then you are putting that person above the needs of your children, whatever the reason being why.

I don't think having an affair is comparable to playing in traffic! Come on that's ridiculous, I don't think you need to emphasise how terrible the fallout of an affair can be by exaggerating like that. When partners leave they end their association with each other not their children and this happens whenever someone leaves affair or not. An ex who also ends their association with their children because they've ended their relationship has made two separate choices there.

My SiL (DH's sister) was devastated a few years back - quite understandably - when her husband of 20 years had a an affair with the mother of her son's best friend (who was also married).

My niece was 14 at the time and really struggled for a while trying to mange how terribly her dad had treated her mum with how consistent he was being as a caring and loving dad to her.

He has continued to be a great - involved (in the crap bits of parenting as well as the good bits), caring, available etc.

My niece is now 20 and says that what helped her most was being able to say that what he did to her mum was awful but that she wouldn't judge her relationship with him by how he treated someone else.

My parents are divorced after my Mum had a long term affair - overall she's not a bad parent, but it definitely affected us very badly at the time she got found out and I still get 20 years on when I think back to all the bare faced lies she told us to cover her tracks. Not great parenting. I wouldn't/couldn't do that to my kids.