Can a man ever really change?

[bofski14]

I have been with my partner for just over a year, in which time we have bought a house together and we have a six week old baby. Admittedly things have moved very quickly but it was love at first sight and we are madly in love. A few months into the relationship he told me that he loved me but that he should stay away from me for my own sake as he would end up hurting me. He said he wasn't a good person. I persuaded him to try and see that he does deserve happiness. He's been married before which ended quickly and was not a good experience for him and this has left him with little confidence and a complex about himself that he is unworthy of love. Lately he has been quite patronising to me asking if I'm stupid or telling me to go grow a brain if I don't get what he's saying straight away. He's told me to F off, he's shouted at me quite a few times and last night called me a c*nt. He says he's sorry and that he doesn't mean it and I genuinely think he's sorry. He says he loves me and he doesn't know why he's sabotaging everything. I have our daughter to think of. I don't want her growing up in a broken home but I don't want her witnessing this behaviour either. I feel so trapped because whatever I do, she ends up losing out. I have given up work to stay home and raise our baby so I feel very insecure. I feel like he's pushing me away and I'm scared I will stop loving him and the feelings won't ever come back. He said he wants to change. How can I help him? Can a man ever really change? I want to keep my family together.

As is often said on Mumsnet, when someone tells you who they are, LISTEN.

He told you straight:

"he should stay away from me for my own sake as he would end up hurting me. He said he wasn't a good person. " "he is unworthy of love."

He was absolutely right. You tried to tell him he was wrong about himself but the truth made itself clear.

Sadly, you have lumbered yourself with an utter cunt and now need to think about what to do next. Sorry.

I bet a cup of tea with the exW would be revealing.

By the way it is very, very normal to let this sort of thing happen. We are often programmed to try and 'fix' someone we feel sorry for.

It is what you do about it once you realise you've made a mistake that counts iyswim?

What you are feeling is fear of losing something you have already lost. Also fear of letting your anger come out because it may be overwhelming - and that is a scary feeling. Anger isn't fun to experience. But in your case it is justified and the longer you stay, the more of it will build up waiting to be let out when you finally leave, and so you put it off in anticipation that that will be really unpleasant...and so the cycle continues, which is why a lot of women in your sort of situation do not leave.

I hope that this makes some sort of sense. This is NOT your fault. But only you have the power to sort it by getting shot of this creep.

A good father does not abuse the mother of his child.

"No my baby isn't in danger. He has never been violent to me and is a very doting and kind daddy to our girl. It's just me that gets the brunt of it verbally which at times is quite shockingly hurtful. I'm glad she has no idea what he says. That's why I want to get this under control now before she's old enough to see. My parents are divorced (no violence-affair) and it was horrendous which is probably why I'm trying so desperately to keep us all together. I just want to belong in a family"

Violence against you does not have to be solely physical in order for it to be abusive. He is being verbally abusive towards you and that behaviour is itself abusive. Counselling for such men is a waste of time and effort. He would likely not attend any such sessions anyway and no decent counsellor would see the two of you together anyway due to the ongoing abuse he metes out towards you.

You likely do not think you are at heart worth much really or deserve better so got with the first person who actually showed you any real warmth (that your parents never really provided) and or interest. Unfortunately men like the one you are currently lumbered with like women with inherently low self worth so they can break them down even more. This is no ideal family environment to bring up a child in; I would argue that if it was not for your child you two would not be together at all. Infact you should not be together now.

Right now, when he is still at the stage of saying "sorry" I think you should call his bluff. Tell him straight out that you will not be in a relationship where that type of verbal abuse is carried out and if he really wants to make it work, then he needs to move out temporarily and sign up for a course of CBT or similar.

The longer this goes on, the more he gets away with it with no repercussions, the harder it will be to end it or get him to leave.

You may find that if he moves out, you feel a sudden but overwhelming sense of relief. You are already walking on eggshells even if you are not aware of it yet. Eggshells will be a permanent feature in your future if you do not do something about it now. For your own sake and for your daughter's sake.

I can't add anything more brillant than what has already said.

I will however repeat:
This will never get any better, only ever worse.

He's not violent YET. He will be.

None of this was your fault. If you need proof of this, remember he told you who he was.

Nothing you can do, ever do, ever did do would change any of this. None of this is about you at all. Only him.

Please? Get out get out get out GET OUT!

your HV and WA and SS will HELP you and your baby to get out, as they recognise that your safer away from him than with him.

I am pretty certain ,that you will not find , a foul mouthed person that speaks to his wife like yours does,will ever change for the better, he will only drag you down as time goes by. No child should be brought up in an atmosphere as abusive as yours.

OP I could have written most of every single one of your posts ! Right down to the pregnant after hardly any time (planned), nice person most of the time etc, similar background of my partner etc. he was lovely until our DD arrived then he changed overnight and became incredibly EA. I left the relationship after 3.5 years as I got fed up of the never ending cycles of abuse/apologies, walking around on eggshells/ always trying to predict how he'd react etc. before and after the split there have been some hideous moments including him being particularly verbally abusive in front of our 3 year old daughter. I will never forgive him for his behaviour and he will never change. If he were to change then me leaving would have given him the impetus he needed and ...quelle surprise... It didn't. Definitely read the Lundy Bancroft book it's a real eye opener.

going against the tide, yes men can change. Very occasionally they do (mine did; I was desperate to leave but it was extremely difficult - he finally realised that he had killed my love for him and wanted to be nowhere near him and he actually stepped back, listened for the first time and tried to change. Slowly he did - and it was all his own work becuase by then I had utterly given up)

However.

It's rare, and they have to want to change. Then they have to have the ability.

He will need intensive counselling or therapy and most of all he will need to watch his own behaviour all the time when he's annoyed.

His argument was that he earns the money so will spend it as he likes and we wouldn't miss it that is selfish. thinking that because he earned it he can do what he likes is a symptom of not thinking as a unit.

HIs name calling etc is absolutely unacceptable and if you think it won't happen when your child gets older, think again. Unless he's one of the very few who do change. But if he behaves as he is now, he's a total bad influence to have around her.

If you are dead, genuinely certain he wants to change, then HE has to make the running - now. I'm not sure he does want to change because to be very blunt, you were naive in thinking you could rescue him and give him happiness when he told you he should keep clear of you.

Are you quite quite sure he's genuine or are you being naive again? (maybe you have to find out by giving him the chance - but not for too long).

Good luck, I hope that things do work out.

Nice post Meer but tbh I wouldn't be giving him much of a chance after only a year together. That would be more appropriate after a long, long relationship. The context the OP is describing is woefully short lived.

IME they can be "modified" by carrots and sticks for as long as those are applied, but real lasting change comes from him wanting to change, and it's not likely clear that is the case here.

Not certain if you got together with you thinking you could change him OP, IME that seldom goes well.

I had a big talk with him last night when he got home from work and read him some of your replies. He was really shocked and upset and said he didn't realise how much he hurt me. I told him he would have to leave if he did not drastically change or at least show me he's trying to change. I told him that it's not acceptable and will not be tolerated anymore. My father lives in New Zealand and only visits once a year and he is coming to stay with me in a weeks time so I'm not in a position to go anywhere right now. My dad is so looking forward to seeing the baby for the first time and everything is booked now so I can't call it off, he would be heartbroken. My dad is staying for six weeks. If by the time my dad goes back I still feel dead inside like I do now then I will start making steps to separate. I'm not scared of him and I'm not scared of the future. If I did have to go it alone, I at least have the security of my home and my job is still open for me. I'm just massively disappointed that what should be the happiest time of my life has been spoilt by his temper tantrums. Thank you all for the advice.

You are doing the right thing bof. I really hope that the shock of what you have shown him makes him re-think his attitude.
Good luck and hope you have a lovely visit with your Father

You have given him a warning now which in a way, well, if it makes you feel better then that is good I suppose - but it also means he will probably act great for the next 6 weeks, and then once your dad has gone, he'll crank up the abuse once more.

What you have done in essence is given him too much information, and the upper hand, for the time being - if you are as detached in your head as you say, then that means it's over anyway, which is a good thing. But leaving a man like this can be the most dangerous time so please make sure you are not alone with him where possible.

Glad your dad is going to be around anyway. See what he thinks of your DP - maybe he can offer an opinion.

It's a good sign that he was shocked and upset, many abusive people will just turn it back on the victim.

I remain sceptical though as I fear he will put on a good show while your Dad is staying and then return to his usual self when it is "safe" to do so. Can you talk to your Dad about what's going on?

Great minds Rooners

bofski Good to hear you sounding more positive and in control this morning, it sounds like you've got your fighting spirit back.

This sounds like a terrible situation. Poor you. Maybe he can change with counselling. I'm not sure. But it's worth a try if you feel it is. If he is willing. But he must acknowledge his behaviour is disgraceful and show a willingness to do something about it.

i know he earns his money but you are home looking after his child. is fair that yo should have an opinion on how money should be spent. without being verbally attacked. my ex: we seperated in the NY. i also experience alot of emotional abuse in the first year too, it didn't got better but worse instead. he kept saying things like the house was untidy and that i was useless. i had put up with him for 10 years and slowly i relized i didn't need to. it seems scary at first but as time goes by, only you will know in time if he really respects you

"His argument was that he earns the money so will spend it as he likes and we wouldn't miss it."

Right, so you have given up your job and made yourself financially dependent on a man who doesn't believe in sharing money.

Wonderful.

"He said he would try anything but he doesn't know where to start"

How about he starts by not being a dick to you?

Would that be so very difficult for him?

Oh, I just saw that your job is still open for you.

That is GREAT news.

You must go back to work when your maternity leave ends.

Whether this relationship lasts, you can't make yourself financially dependent on this man.

The simple answer to your question is Yes, men can change. I am a man and I changed, I had CBT. It is not easy for anyone but easier than the pish we were dealing with because of my behaviour.
I have never lifted my hand or called my wife a name I have never financially abused her or withheld my feelings. I don't want to change the tact of the thread to make it about me, the only thing I am trying to say is it can be done. Although he has to want to do, really buy into it even when it gets very bad. There are times during that are horrific as you have to face the things you are and the demons you have.

Feel free to pm me and I can give details, as I said it is not easy.....far from it but to quote a favourite song "the journey brought joys, which outweighed the pain"

an you change? can you change how you respond to him? yes you can...so can eh change - if he really wants to.