How do I get my head around this? (Long, sorry)

[ohtobemeagain]

DH has admitted to an affair, it is over and he is going out of his way to help me get past it.

But I'm hung up over an affair I think he had several years ago. At the time, I didn't suspect this, I trusted him totally. I knew he spoke to, emailed and texted this woman, but he never seemed to withhold anything.

In light of the affair he has admitted to, he has given me full transparency (not that I needed it, it turns out I have a gift for snooping!). I came across email conversations with her. They are very very flirty - both ways, bordering on explicit. Having met her, and heard phone conversations with her, I know this is her way and, at the time, I didn't worry about them (I didn't have MN then ).

Now they are bothering me . Not the fact that the conversations happened, he acknowledges how disrespectful they were and has apologised, but I now feel, strongly, that there was more, that there was a physical affair.

He has denied it.

He has confessed to something far worse so why not this?

Unfortunately, however explicit the emails are, they do not indicate anything happening but a couple do end with "Calling" so I do not know how those conversations ended.

He has told me to ring her and ask. He offered me her phone number, but I already had it . He has not tipped her off from what I can find, so not having spoken to her for approx 3 years, he is confident of her replies.

I don't really see the use as I think she will deny it so I don't tell her new husband (man she was living with when I suspect the affair). I have no desire to screw up her life, but will ring her if MN thinks I should.

All this has come to a head as I was reading another thread and Not Just Friends was mentioned. I thought to myself that I ought to re-read it in the hopes of getting past this, but then realised I didn't want to get past it, I wanted to KNOW.

So, what do I do?

Did he admit to all this out of the blue or had you discovered something and challenged him?

I found something and challenged him. Yes, we did go through the script, and I laughed in his face when we got to the swearing on DS's life etc. I truly believe he is remorseful etc, and I believe that I know the majority of the truth about the recent stuff.

He also confessed to some other stuff that I would not have found out, so again, if this, why not admit to the one years ago? The most recent was full blown affair, but the one I'm querying would have just been sex and he knows that it was loving someone else that hurt me and not the sex if that makes sense.

"He has confessed to something far worse so why not this"

I guess because if it turns out that what happened a few years ago then you will (probably) believe that he has been cheating on you for your entire relationship (which would be a reasonable conclusion) and that you will chuck him out.

Whereas at the moment, he's hanging on by a thread because you haven't chucked him out for the one affair you already know about.

And he will hang on to that thread for dear life because who wants to be branded a serial cheat to family and friends? He will be shit on everyone's shoe.

I agree with the PP. He's only confessing to the stuff he can't actually deny. If you've discovered the same kind of behaviour twice now, you have to conclude that this is pretty standard stuff for him.

Sorry to drip feed, I've just realised that it is probably relevant that the disclosure of the recent affair was over 6 months ago and not a recent thing.

diagonally - I had thought of this, but during "disclosure" I told him that I needed to know everything, not just this affair but ALL affairs. He was under no illusion that if I found out anything else that he did not volunteer first, then I would throw him out. He was astounded by how much I already knew, and about other stuff from the past that I subsequently queried with him (not affairs but stuff that irritated me). He confessed to everything with the affair and other stuff, but is very very adamant about not having an affair with this woman.

I have other sources for the information I desperately crave but I don't want to drag others into this. He was supportive of me telling anyone in real life that I wanted to including a close family member of his who would of disowned him on the spot, but I chose not to tell anyone. He knows that I do not want anyone else to know, so I'm not sure if that would be stopping him telling me about this woman. Does that make sense?

Hang on - he swore that he wasn't having the affair (the one he actually was having) on your DS' life?

Apart from the fact that the trust has completely gone from your relationship because of his actions, the above would be SO far over the line for me.

He swore on your son's LIFE? And was lying? I'm still agog at this.

All this 'tell anyone in real life' and 'give the OW a call' stuff sounds like grandstanding to me. He's gambling you'll do none of it for the reasons you've given. Ultimately, if you think he's lying or holding back you won't be able to trust him. And that's usually when a relationship is holed below the water line.

Ok I think I'm being very naive - I suppose all these guys must swear on all sorts of stuff. But I can't see how you can stay together after that tbh.

"He knows that I do not want anyone else to know"

He's banking on you keeping his secret, swallowing his story and, once the dust settles, picking up where he left off.

I am not sure why you would believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a proven liar, tbh

So, he admitted to one indiscretion because he couldn't wriggle out of it ? So what. You now know this is what he is not just what he does

of course he isn't going to disclose more because you made it clear you would be forgiving of one but possibly not multiple affairs

over to you, love

also a tip to anyone reading this : if someone "swears on X, Y, Z's life" you can be relatively sure they are lying

Sorry, I wasn't clear. He went through the deny stage minimising etc, as per the script and then swore on DS's life that there was nothing else. I laughed because I told him that I wouldn't believe another word that came out of his mouth. We have moved on since then, I have queried things, some of which he didn't know I already knew, and he has answered honestly.

At the beginning, he was going to tell his parents etc so that I had RL support, it was me who stopped him. They live with us so I see them everyday. (MiL is my best friend) The person I mentioned above would have been devastated. I told DH that he was being selfish for telling them as it would hurt them so much and, at the end of the day, it had nothing to do with them. I think MiL has guessed, but wouldn't come out and ask me directly. She does know that I was going to throw him out, but I said it was a bad patch, and didn't go into anymore detail. He knows that I have told my sister, but she won't say anything to his family.

He admitted to one real affair, one emotional affair (prior to the one I don't believe) and a visit to a prostitute!

If he had sex with this woman, and he had confessed it during disclosure, (which may sound like a one off episode but it was night after night after night until I felt I had everything) then it wouldn't have added to my decision to throw him out.

The emotional affair was kind of touched upon at the time, but I didn't have MN wisdom then so he virtually got away with it. I think if I had dealt with it then, our relationship would have been stronger. He accepts that the state of our relationship did not excuse his behaviour, but I am guilty of not trying to fix that as well - but he accepts that my negligence was nothing to his betrayal.

Negligence? See how he casually threw that in? The old 'you're not perfect either' routine... Dressed up with fake remorse that what he did was much worse but nevertheless planting that seed that you need to share the blame here.

I can't tell you why they lie about stuff. But I think it's a combination of never-admit-what-you-can-deny and never-give-more-ammunition. And also, I'm sorry, a bit of fuck-you-bitch-I'm-not-saying.

Look, I'm divorcing mine for sleeping with prostitutes for our whole 8 year relationship and marriage. Denied right up til I chucked him that he'd ever gone through with it. Since then, he didn't challenge it on divorce papers. And when I hit the roof about him booking an out call to my child's home (not whilst she was there, but still beyond the pale for me!) and told him I'd take her to another country if he ever did it again, he argued it was OK (arsehole) but not that he hadn't done it.

So - he has admitted peostitutes, finally.

But the very first sign, ever, a few months after I met him. A fairly innocuous email to a woman online saying it was nice chatting. He claimed it was mailed from his account by a mate for a laugh. There's some very good evidence that it was him. Proof really. After I had given him so much during the split - like not telling his family - I asked him to just come clean about that mail. He won't. Utterly entrenched. They don't want to admit that they are liars.

I know it's a bit me me me and that one email is not the affair that you fear. But I wanted to share that some men keep to the most ridiculous unnecessary lies. I read it on here all the time.

And your H has more to lose.
I'll tell you - being treated like a ducking mug over that email denial did as much to wreck my relationship as the actual sex with prostitutes.

cogito - that was my wording only - he has never accused me of this

Ugh

I can't understand why you are still with him, tbh

I can almost see forgiving an affair but using a prostitute ?

FGS, this man hates women, doesn't he ? < shudder >

Op- you sound remarkably nonchalant and accepting of your p's shocking betrayals. I hope you're getting some real support and know that being angry is good. In fact it's essential- you've been treated despicably

cabrinha - your last line - that's what took so long to sink in to DH's thick skull, whilst I was hurt about the betrayal, it was the constant lies that was what was going to end our relationship.

Disclaimer - the next bit ISN'T defending him, it's an explanation but he knows he is ultimately responsible for his own actions.

Since this all came out, I have watched his family more than I used to. His mother and his sister LIE ALL THE TIME. Stupid, pathetic things (and some big things). Growing up, he was never penalised for lying. It was never picked up on, stopped, anything. It is a way of life for them. Confrontation is to be avoided at all costs.

Since all this happened, DH has taken on board what I have said about lying and I can see a massive change in him, he now gets cross when MiL or SiL lie, and if they lie to me, then he pulls them up on it. MiL isn't used to this and is struggling with it, but he sides with me always. The man I married 20 years ago was a Mummy's boy, so this is a massive step for him.

You are giving him far too much credit

the small steps he has taken are what passes as normal in most relationships

I suspect it is not his upbringing that is the problem here, but yours

Joblot - there are days when I fly into a rage, and he accepts it. I am not nonchalent, but I am further down the line and can look at things a bit more dispassionately.

The prostitute was for 1 blow job. There is no way I could of found this out for myself, but he volunteered the information. Until this moment, I knew he was feeling guilty about something, from the moment he told me, he changed, acting more like the man I fell in love with and not the lying cheating bastard I had been living with.

Oh love. Prostitutes too, huh? It wasn't one visit. I don't know him from Adam, but I'd put money on that. Money - ha.

Sounds to me like you know deep down that this isn't going to work (it doesn't work, he cheats on you) so you need to make it OK to end it, by having as much evidence as possible. Even if you say it won't change your decision. He's an arsehol love. It is OK to end it. It doesn't matter whether he slept with her or not. He's treated you like shit anyway.

Darling, this is your HUSBAND. The one who should love you more than anyone does. But I bet you wouldn't treat even a casual acquaintance the way he's treated you.

He slept with a prostitute. There is no getting carried away, thinking you're in love... (Not that I'm excusing an affair either) he chose in cold blood to sleep with a prostitute, risk your health and betray him.

Why stay for more? He knows what he can get away with now.

AnyFucker - my brother (I have 3 siblings) lied all the time. I always said it was a deal breaker. My family tried very very hard to deal with my brother, but in the end we gave up. I haven't seen or spoken to him in 21 years. My other brother contacted him recently, contact lasted about 3 months and then was dropped again, as he still lied.

My parents were in love until my father died. My Grandparents the same. I could not have had a better example set to me.

So I'm not sure what your comment meant about my upbringing?

so hes fucked a prostitute
had a sexual affair
had an emotional affair

why are you staying - I genuinely don't understand why you can love someone who has disrespected you so very much

He changed? Damn right he changed. He just realised that not only would his wife believe he only paid a prostitute once, and believe it was only a blow job, but that she'd reward his honesty by forgiving him!!! Even praising him for honesty.

They. Minimise.

It was more than a blow job.

I'm sorry. I have been there, at least re prostitutes, almost convincing myself he only looked. I don't think you're stupid, I just have hindsight.

One blow job with one prostitute is marriage ending!!!! Even if it was "only" that. Which it wasn't, and won't be in future.
This man has not made one slip, has he? This is how much he cares about you :(

And for the lying family... frankly, and harshly - so what? That doesn't make you fuck another woman. It just doesn't, love.

Something in your life is telling you that you are worth so little that you would hang on to a man like this. Upbringing or something else, I don't know. I think it would serve you well to try and find out though (possibly through individual counselling)