DH and e-mail from work colleague

[Canthpfeelinglikethis]

Hi looking for others take on this.

Married 6 years together 20 years. Very happy with two DC. DH very outgoing, the type that gets on well with everyone, very well liked by everyone and a bit flirty by nature.

A couple of years ago he became friendly with a work colleague. I was not fully aware of their friendship at the time. He did speak about her a bit as she had broken up with her bf and was internet dating so he would tell me about this and I would ask how she was getting on etc etc. After a while I started to get a little bit wary of their relationship - not sure why just instinct I suppose. Then one evening I was on his emails (he was fully aware of this) looking for something and came across an email from her to him that didn't sit right with me. It was from her saying "where will we go for lunch sexy". His reply suggested "get something and have it in his office or go to the usual cafe". Then her reply "yes your office as have no money. We can lock the door of your office right!!!!" Then him - "cop on you tart" then followed by lunch arrangements. Now at the time I found the e-mail I was very hurt as I felt very betrayed that he would think that this was ok. I confronted him and he said absolutely nothing going on, just friends, office banter and that was just her personality and how she was with other people. I told him I thought this was completely inappropriate and was not how I thought a married man should act. I asked for full access to his e-mails, phone records etc which he gave me and I looked back over all their e-mails and other than this mail there was very little else. I do have a suspicion that he may have called her once on a night out when he was drunk but found no evidence of this. It didn't stop me from being very upset and I told him to tell her how I felt and to tell her to stop this "banter" with him. He said he never viewed it the way I did but he could see how it looks to me. He did (after he spoke to her) suggest I meet her but I didn't want this as my take is that she owed me nothing and it was him that I was in a relationship with. After a lot of tears and talking I was satisfied that it was just a bit of flirting. Since this we have had another DC and are as happy as ever.

My issue - Since this happened I have to be honest that I find it hard to trust DH. 99% of the time everything is great but there is always something in the back of my mind and I feel like I am always on high alert. Reason being that I had no idea of their friendship. When this happened it turned out that they had regularly gone for lunch but he would never have told me. Every day we would ask each other what did you do for lunch but he never once told me that he had lunch with her. I found this very odd. We bumped into her and her new bf recently and since then it has brought back everything that happened a few years ago. She introduced me to the bf and said DH had already met him. DH never mentioned this. They still work together but he never mentions her and I never ask. I have no reason to doubt him at all. He is a great father and DH. We don't go out separately very often and I have no reason to think anything but I just wonder because I never knew the last time either as everything was happening during work hours.

My question is will the doubt ever go away?? Sometimes I think I am being totally irrational but I can't help how I feel. I have been reading here about EA and how most people are repeat offenders and it has just got me thinking. I hate feeling like this and wish that I could have that feeling of complete trust back again.

Thanks for reading and all comments welcome.

HI, if he was not open about the lunch dates, and emails. you have a problem.
when our dh's are open and honest, we know that there aren't feelings or a 'connection' with someone else.
I am starting to learn more from being on here, even the men we thought were decent are not they will still fall for the 'seductive' or 'intelligent' work colleague however attractive/unattractive whatever the reason they still fall for it. have you been able to talk about this with him?

OP I'm sorry but "Cop on you tart!" is not dismissive.

It would be like me saying "Ooo you naughty boy, get you!" back at a man. It's flirty. Sorry.

I hope your chat with your DH goes OK

"Tart" smacks of familiarity and he is acknowledging her as being a sexy person - very uninappropriate way of addressing a colleague.

The closed office comment - this is where the "cop on" comes in, as in you must be joking in a knowing way as its lunchtime and getting caught is likely. But I wonder what would happen after work...

Why do they always paint the OW as the office flirt?!

Also the bit about how he kept saying he couldn't believe all this trouble - this worries me because instead of being defensive, he should have been mortified that he has crossed some lines and upset you. Surely he must have seen how inappropriate and wrong he has been?

It could be that they don't usually communicate in this way via email - did you ever get to check his mobile and phone bills?

The fact that this is so unlike you and that you are usually not jealous/paranoid and yet you cannot shake off this strange feeling is very telling.

I don't envy you having to decide on what you want to do next - good luck.

OP: "Kittenzzz - on the e-mail access. I know that I saw everything as the system used holds everything including deleted mails."

I am no tecchie but if this is Outlook, you can permanently delete emails in the Deleted Items folder. I agree you also need to check his mobile and phone bills. When you are having your talk with your dh, quietly make sure he has his mobile phone with him and ask for it on the spot. Watch his reaction.

Have you been to an office function and has he introduced the colleague to you before? Sometimes, wives can sense there is something off when they see the OW, even if the OW is one person in a big group, particularly since you say you are a perceptive person.

Good god, this really is the wrong board for getting a balanced view. I had a totally different view of the situation from reading the op's post. I would agree with the op above who says to just be aware that this board can give a very jaundiced view of things - I remember a thread where a poster was worried about a text from her dh, which after several pages of LTB then turned out to have a totally innocent, corroborated explanation and some posters just absolutely refused to believe it. Just to give you an opposite view, nothing you have said indicates an affair to me and surely damage could be done by being overly controlling or suspicious - certainly I know I wouldn't like it. Maybe I'll be flamed for this opinion, I don't know

I really wouldn't assume the worst about this. If you're perceptive and you haven't worried about anything else, I would assume that there was something amiss - but something minor, perhaps she got drunk and lunged at him and he told her to piss off, or just flirted with him when she was doing a lot of dating etc. They do sound very familiar - but then you knew that they were good enough friends that she discussed her online dating etc with him (and he with you, remember). At that level of friendship, I wouldn't find this interaction very surprising. Are you a very professional type who would never make these kind of jokes with colleagues? Because where I've worked (various industries) greeting someone "Hello sexy" or making jokes of this kind with friends (definitely NOT with casual acquaintances etc) is totally normal.

Honestly, I would try to relax.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage - think I have decided to speak to him. Re the ultimatum - this is what I think will be difficult. If he continues to deny anything happened then its hard to follow through because I dont actually know what went on. It is down then to whether I believe him or not and then back to the trust thing.

Youcanbemyfriendifyoubuymecake - Yeah it's hard to understand why people need this "extra" I just don't get it. Haven't spoken to him yet but think I will.

Missscatterbrain - yes he did see how inappropriate it was. I think his point about not believing the email could cause such damage was more because it didn't mean anything, it was just banter. Yes did check his phone records before I even spoke to him and nothing untoward found.

Blueshoes - no it is an e-mail management system that holds all mail items including deleted mails so I think it was everything. Not techie either so couldn't be absolutely certain.
Did get introduced to her before and got no vibes that there was anything out of the ordinary.

Apachepony - point taken. Do you think it is an inappropriate conversation though just not an affair? Definitely not interested in being controlling.

Thanks for all the views.

ElephantsAndMiasmas - yes am in a professional job and would not speak to a colleague like this. He is also in a professional job as is she. Thanks for your take on it. I know people have different views on what is acceptable.

OP - I do think you will get a very (albeit understandably) biased viewpoint from MN. How many people are going to post "well I got paranoid about a colleague of my DP's, went off the deep end / leftTB and it turned out to be absolutely nothing"?

I know the language is inappropriate, but I do know professional working environments (partners that we work with, not our own as it is a very "aware" US-based organisation) in which it would not be particularly unusual. I don't have an answer for you, but it would be good to think that you could find a resolution which settles your doubts without risking your relationship in the process (unless of course your fears are justified ).

I wish you the best of luck in finding such a resolution.

I think it is rather juvenile to say just because it is MN you will get people saying LTB. By its very nature more people post that their husbands have cheated, or they suspect they have, so there will be a larger majority of LTB posts than MTM (Marry The Man) posts. People generally post when they are worried or upset. Not many people come on to say how wonderful their spouse has been that day.

I'm going to play devils advocate a little here. My ExBF was an old fashioned sexist dinosaur (one of the reasons he's Ex!). When we first met I was working away in a job that left me very little time in the week (hotel, office by 7:30am, back to hotel at about 9pm dinner & sleep). That was fine, as it was when I was between jobs. Next job was commutable in London so I took the opportunity to go out for a drink a couple of times with a good mate of mine who happened to be male. We're not talking every week, maybe every couple of months or so (as we'd done last time we were both working in town).

Next thing I know I'm getting all kinds of accusations & jealousies from the BF, with it getting to the stage that I was sorely tempted to lie about who I was going for a drink with just to keep the peace. I will emphasise that I had known this mate many years longer than my BF, he'd helped me out & advised me on a number of things in the past & there had never ever been any question of either of us fancying the other.

I ended up just not mentioning that I'd been out even if asked as it just wasn't worth the hassle.

Toffee that was exactly kind of my point - so not clear in what way it was juvenile when I said it but not when you did

Stealth, I apologise if I have offended you. I don't see that we were both saying the same thing. You said MN is biased. I don't think I said that. I took it to mean that you were saying posters automatically say LTB.

Clearly I didn't say what I meant then. I meant exactly what you said - people post when they are worried, not when they are OK, people who have been wounded see the worst, those that haven't see nothing and don't comment. It's not MN per se, it's human nature, but it results in a biased view of the situation IMHO.

Well I spoke to him tonight. First asked about when he met the bf. He said he hadn't ever met him and if he did he didn't remember. I told him that her comment had made me feel uneasy again and was making me rethink what happened before. He reiterated that to him there was never any connection other than friends, that he never saw her that way and as far as he knew she was the same. He said nothing ever happened between them and he never wanted anything to happen. He never saw their relationship in that way. He did say that he knows how it looks when you read the email and again said that he knows it was inappropriate. He said he didn't really know what else to say that hadn't already been said. He was very sad that I was feeling like this again. He also said his heart was beating out of his chest that this has come up again and that he didn't want me to feel this way. He said he has not once met her for lunch since and only communications are work related. I do feel better after having a chat. I don't suppose I will ever know for certain what their relationship was. Maybe I will never get the 1% back. I just hope that bringing it all up again hasn't caused us issues but it was the right thing to do as I just couldn't not say it as it would eat away at me and probably make me crazy. He also said that he was glad that I talked to him about it.

Thanks for everyone's input it has been very helpful.

I don't think saying we can lock your door is a normal flirting work comment at all... It sounds more than that

Him saying his heart was beating out of his chest is interesting. That happens when we're frightened, doesn't it?

I think this is one of those awful situations where you might never know one way or the other whether anything happened. It doesn't look like there's anything happening NOW and maybe that will be enough for you? I'd be interested in what he had to say about how he might avoid this sort of thing in the future, especially as you say he's flirty with people and use the present not the past tense about that.

I've worked in many corporate workplaces in the US and GB and have never known co-workers to write to eachother like that. I do make the distinction between what's written and what's spoken too. A flirtatious verbal exchange somehow seems more deliberate and overt when someone's gone to the trouble of writing it in a message, with editing and deleting facilities.

Tonandfeather - I thought the very same when he said about his heart. Didn't say it in my post because I wanted to see what others thought. However, I was very close to leaving him when this happened so I think this could have been why he felt like this. I don't think I will ever know. On what he is doing to make it better - not crossing the line I suppose. He is flirty by nature so I don't expect or want him to change that but just respect the boundaries and not take it too far and I have no reason to believe that he isn't doing this. I really don't think there is anything going on now and at some point I have to move on from this. Without any proof it would be foolish and possibly unfair to do anything rash.

Has he told you what changes he's made to his behaviour around other women since this happened?

There seems to be a contradiction between "I was flattered by the attention and it felt good" and "I never saw her that way and she didn't fancy me either" don't you think?

By the way I don't think "not having proof" will make one jot of difference to your feelings of doubt and mistrust. It might be more a case of managing those feelings, rather than being rid of them completely. I'm sure he wanted that conversation over quickly whereas it would have been much more reassuring if he'd outlined what he does at work and when he meets women to stop situations like this arising. You sound like you're guessing and hoping that he has boundaries rather than knowledge and belief based on what he's told you.

and sorry I'm not sure my first post today made much sense. I was trying to get across that people might flirt verbally and it not have as much import as when they flirt in writing. There can be a slip of the tongue but it's somehow more meaningful when a key or phone pad is involved, because the writer can edit and delete what's being said. She didn't and neither did he.

Male perspective - her emails were very flirty but his response in my opinion was very dismissive. Not dismissive how mumsnet would like - ie. 'I don't think that's an appropriate thing to say' etc etc. But dismissive in EXACTLY the way that a jokey guy dismisses a come on - making it into a joke and taking the piss at the same time.

Frankly I think it's outrageous that there seem to be people on this thread telling you that your husband has had an affair. Not only is there no evidence but allowing you free access to phones, computers etc is not the actions of someone having an affair.

I am/have been in a similar situation, it wasn't anything even as blatant as the emails you have seen but something that didn't sit right with DH and a colleague. I am 99.9% sure nothing happened but he is the sort of person that would be too worried to completely dismiss someone so even if he wasn't interested he may just be polite/say something daft like your DH did which could then look worse than it is. He can be 'over-friendly' and know this, it is more him feeling uncomfortable in social situations and not knowing how to act rather than being flirtatious.

He tends to omit things in order not to upset me when they are such minor things that they do not matter. He suffers with depression/anxiety and cannot cope with confrontation at all.

Every now and then things come up about her, he received a text that I thought seemed cryptic, he absolutely insists he has no idea what it meant and even replied in front of me to it and I saw her responses but I still find it hard to completely forget about it. Most of the time I do but if I am feeling insecure then it comes into my head. Our relationship is really good but with his depression and my insecurities this one thing can be difficult.

Sorry - I know this may not be that helpful but wanted you to know that I don't think he was having an affair and he definitely knows how you feel about his behaviour so if he does something like this again he knows he will have crossed a line.

BTW I have, in the past, received flirty texts from someone I considered a friend and rather than telling him to f* off I dismissed it by sending a laughing emoticon which could be interpreted completely wrong. I just wanted to end the text exchange.