I think I really may have to leave dh

[ThinkingOfLeaving]

I am a regular poster who has name changed, please don't out me.

Dh and I have been together over 13 years and have 3 dc, he works reduced hours and is the main carer and does most of the household chores etc.

The problem for me is that he just incapable of showing me any care, he never asks how I am, if I'm upset he ignores it, he asked why I couldn't sleep last night and I told him it was because I'm miserable - that was the end of the conservation. It's been like this for years but I only realised about 3 years ago just how very alone I was and tbh it just feels like daily rejection of who I am.

If I live it will mean me going into shared accommodation and being pretty broke. Property is far too expensive to sell the house or anything like that. I worry how I will be able to maintain any sort of decent relationship with the dc if I move out especially as they won't be able to stay with me.

I feel my choices are freedom and the hope of hapiness but broke or staying and having an ok lifestyle but being alone and lonely. I can't even work out what is best for the dc - for them to model their future relationships on this marriage or have to come to terms with their mother leaving them.

Also the whole society thing, a failed 2nd marriage and a mother leaving her dc behind - just how much more shit will that make me feel about myself.

I asked dh to consider going back to a counsellor to see if we could make our marriage work and for each of us to sort ourselves out. After 10 days I asked him what he had decided and he said he would go and that if I was willing to try so was he. Well that was months ago and he hasn't even rang to make an appointment, I don't think he ever will.

I am no contact with my family, we have no family friends, dh has no friends and won't risk trying to make any and I only have a few friends none of whom are local.

I suppose I'd just like some advice and to be able to talk about how I'm feeling and what I think to help me make a decision.

You need to really talk to each other honestly as you can't go on like this. Life is too long to spend every day being unhappy when you can change things.

I agree with Ofred that if you could improve your life in terms of interests and also making a few local friends your relationship problems might not be in such sharp focus for you. How about starting a book club? It sounds like you don't have much in terms of female emotional support; if you did you might not feel your husbands lack of support so acutely.

I'm not saying you should stay together indefinitely if he carries on behaving the same way and you continue to feel as you do, but having friends and interests would improve your life anyway.
Can I ask, if you did split up, how do you know he would
be the main carer of the DCs? Has this been discussed?
Is the therapy encouraging you to dwell too much on problems?

I've tried the talking honestly, that's what we did when we went to couples therapy. He said he knows what he did was wrong but then nothing changed. I think he is too frightened - it's like he is frightened of everything. He won't make any effort with his family, he doesn't bother trying to keep friendships with other of a similar age or circumstance - they clearly (to me) wanted to build friendships with us but he wouldn't try. It's like he is frightened of my feelings. He won't make the effort with colleagues because of various reasons.

He's told me he'd never leave his house. I wouldn't be missed in the practical sense at all apart from chauffering everyone around which I would still do.

What he said he did want was to start all over as if nothing had ever happened (which of course isn't possible), said he was willing to try but sense then nothing, nada, no appointment made, no asking me anything, still ignoring me when I'm upset.

I did have local friends, well people that I thought were friends, but they all have their own extended families and family friends. So when I need support because things got really bad what I discovered was that actually I have no-one, people say they care however you are in reality way down their list of people who they care about. I walked out of his parents on Christmas Day 2 years ago because I couldn't take it anymore and we got zero support from them, although I expect DH didn't actually ask them to do anything because he won't ever reach out to others.

If we split I can't see why he'd agree to move out? He does all the school runs, make tea etc. he always says the dc are the best thing I ever made him do. He has no ambition for anything more in life than what he has. Won't move house, won't make a 6 month plan or a 5 year plan. Just stuck in this weird limbo of pretending that everything is fine.

Being busy is what I used to do but it's just papering over the cracks, didn't stop me crying myself to sleep most nights, not being able to sleep, not feeling totally lost and alone. I was really upset when I got sterlised, guess what he just ignored that too.

I'm much happier than I was, I think I've grieved a lot for the marriage I thought I had and then realised I didn't, I just don't know what to do going forward. I still love him but I really don't think he will change so the next difficult thing in life that happens I will have to cope with on my own whilst the outside world thinks I've got this loving, caring husband.

It isn't about being busy but it's about creating an independent life for yourself so that you are not quite so focused or dependent on your relationship. It requires letting the relationship go really.

What you said about "so the next thing that happens I will have to cope with on my own while the world thinks I have a living caring husband" is how I felt and why this relationship is so toxic to you.

I suppose I don't feel I can have an independent life whilst we are together if that makes sense.

All the local friends I did make were all married with kids but they were only available during the school day so now I work they just fell by the wayside because I needed them but they didn't me as they have plenty of friends/loving husband/close extended family.

That's where I end up though that I need to leave so I can build myself a life independent of him because at the moment everyone just assumes you're married and that you have a family unit so you're not part of the unattached crowd and you're not part of the couples crowd. He never stops me going out, he doesn't usually even bother to ask where I'm going or who with, when I'll be back, how I'm getting back.

Surely you could go for 50:50 custody OP? I'm not a divorce lawyer but I don't see why that should be impossible.

The reason why he does so much of the domestic chores is because that's his way of contributing. He refuses to contribute what I need but gives him the argument that he does everything and I'm lazy and do nothing.

It's hard because I don't think he is like this to be cruel to me but he is refusing to do anything to try and see if he could be different, I suppose he doesn't want to face his demons whereas I'm prepared to face mine (again).

I wouldn't be able to afford to rent anywhere with enough room to have them stay overnight. He wouldn't stop me seeing them but it's not the same as being there 7 days a week isn't. It's not like they'll want to come and hang out in my bedroom in a shared house.

I think your depression is probably influencing your perspective on how easy/possible it is to make/keep friends. Probably also influencing your ability to keep them too. You could do with maybe working, in therapy, to open yourself up to more possibilities and not catastrophise them out of existence before you've even tried.

You seem so down my love. It is very understandable but it is not hopeless. You can sort these things out little by little. Maybe aim for something small like going round to a friend's house once in a while but regularly for coffee.

It is becoming more common for parents to get 50:50 residence but has traditionally been frowned upon as not being in the children's interest to not have one stable identifiable home.

I'm not sure why you would be the one leaving either. The home's a marital asset could you not consider selling it and moving into two smaller houses?

Offred I don't really have any friends that I could do that with. I suggest getting together but they don't come back to me, there is only so many times you can impose yourself on others.

They are all lovely people but they are busy busy busy. Busy with their nuclear families, their family friends and their extended families, husbands all work long hours with long commutes. That is just life where I live now.

My colleagues are all wealthy and have their nuclear families, extended families, family friends - they are so busy outside of work.

Our house isn't worth enough or big enough to downsize. I couldn't even afford to rent a studio flat on my salary (I earn more)

So he owns your house out right does he? It was his before you married?

Xpost.

You could sell and buy 2 flats?

Nope, it is our house.

It's a very small 3 bed mid terrace with an outstanding mortgage. 50% would only buy a 2 bed mobile home around here. Very very expensive area.

There will be a way round this practicality about houses. However for you I can see this is quite a long way from where you are up to.

You need to feel a little better about asserting and imposing yourself on other people. If you really have no friends, you need to make a conscious effort to reconnect with old ones or make new ones.

What do you think the barriers are to doing that? Is it that you feel you might not be wanted (why would you be if your own husband and dc don't want you may be the belief you've internalised) and are afraid to try and have it confirmed that you aren't?

(I'd meet you for coffee and you could try some things from mumsnet meet ups?)

Mumsnet local I mean.

I work full time, most meet ups etc are during the day. The people I know don't want to meet up in the evenings. Some of them are working, some are busy ferrying their kids around 5 nights per week, the rest of them are having "family" time.

I do go out to stuff - I will always take the opportunity to go out.

One good friend has moved a long way away, I'd be happy to email but she prefers to phone - I hate the phone and can't talk in private at home anyway (house is too small). My other good friend also lives hundreds of miles away. Another friend I always initiate meeting up.

If/when I move out I would just try and go to a very local houseshare so I'd be walking distance away. Dh of course could impose himself on his parents but no way would he do that willingly. The only way this marriage will end is if I go.

I agree with Offred that there must be some way around it, even if you had to relocate.

I think your depression is currently painting the situation in the blackest possible light which is that you must leave your children as well as your husband.

I think that figuring this out is key, even though it may seem several steps down the line, because it changes the complexion of your choices right now, which in turn must affect your outlook.

Also if I was the one working part time and doing all the child rearing you MN would be full of that I was the one who had the right to the marital home and dh would have to go. Not sure why it's suddenly seen differently because our roles are reversed!

The marriage will end when when you file for divorce...

To relocate we'd both need to find work elsewhere away from here - dh has worked for the same company since he left school, can't see that happening! We live in the cheapest town for miles and miles around.

I think the hardest thing is accepting that it's over. I'm not involved with the dcs that much anymore, not like I used to be by anymeans.

Personally I think that husbands working full time have the right to 50:50 custody if that's what thy want.

I would say exactly the same to you as I have said if you were male.

Despite the fact that he's the primary carer, he's the one behaving unreasonably in the relationship, you're the one desperately trying to make it work.