What type of manipulative technique is this?

[Bewilderedotcom]

I can't give too much info as I don't want to be identified and have NC.

My marriage is total shit and if it wasn't for financial consideration and children I would have left years ago.

I know H is controlling and manipulative and uses rages and house smashing up (minimal physical violence too) that has left me under confident and anxious about being on my own, which is of course what it's designed to do.

Over the past year I have seen for the first time how he operates and am now able just to mentally dismiss his endless accusations. I know when he accused me of something I didn't do or say or mean, I would tell him and myself I didn't do it, but I would say to myself 'I didn't do what he said , but I must have done something'. Of course lots of self doubt and internal confusion until I realised this was just manipulation.

He also says things like 'you said something to upset me because you know I am anxious about an appointment/job issue/outing tomorrow!' Therefore it's your fault I am screaming abuse at you.

What I want to know is how that works? What type of manipulation is that called? How do I combat it? It always hits me like a ton of bricks because I feel guilty for adding to his stress even though I'd forgotten about appointments and so on and there was no deliberate intention. This happens with every outburst. There's always something behind 'my starting the argument' which is just an odd word or look out of place

Don't worry I have an exit plan but it will be up to a year before it's in place. I just need help to understand and combat this 'you say one thing but mean another' shit. I've read the book. Which is why I'm moving on at last. The police will be called if he lays a finger on me again or smashes the house up more than the odd broken door handle. (He likes to stand their smashing the door open and closed repeatedly)

It's called gaslighting, sorry you are going through this. I have too.

He sounds like my ex. He used to say that i was deliberately saying things as to make him more stressed.
Even if i was to voice my concerns over something that was bothering me (that had nothong to do with him), id be accused of saying it to make him as anxious as i was.

I now have difficulty talking about things that bother me, and feel selfish for doing so (in RL).

Im not too sure what ot is - id like to know myself.

Its definitely a control tactic. I think it leads to it being where you speak when spoken to.

Never heard of gaslighting. I'll look into it.

I'd never though of it as a way to silence me, but that definitely makes sense. Being in control is his only aim and he makes everything about himself because he sees himself as the boss and me as an inferior.

How can I manage this situation without talking to him? I just want something that stops him in his tracks and makes him see he is not fooling me anymore. He's stopped pressing buttons with me because I know what he is doing so I don't react any more.

At some point we will have to look at selling the house and divorce etc and I can only see this tactic getting worse..

Yes its doing what some of the gaslighting techniques suggest. It's making me doubt my own motives, saying something that I can't prove is untrue as you can't prove a negative and just sucking the life and the energy out of me

I resorted to silence. I ignored everything he said when he was in thay frame of mind.

It was difficult as it made him worse. You cant argue with yourself, can you?
He sure could. He could go on for hours. Without me even saying a word.
It turned to my body language and my stance.

I really dont know of a way to get passed it, or even to jist go with it. They will always find a way to get to you.

I am sorry you are going through this

Yep, gaslighting.

I stopped arguing because whatever I did was wrong. The silence was wrong too. It took for him to try to strangle me and for him to assault one of our dcs before I ended it. I'm over a year into my new life and despite many many challenges, life and energy are returning to me.

Gaslighting is from the film of the same name where a husband was using certain techniques on his wife to make her doubt herself and get others around her to see her as mad in order to have her declared insane so he could get his paws on her inheritance. It's an old film but very interesting in it's 'slow burn'. He gets busted by an outsider which doesn't happen in RL. In RL it is a slow dawning of realisation by the victim that occurs. Once you realise it has a name it becomes more real though.

God, yes I know that silence is even wrong too! IF i ignored I shouted berated for ignoring. My ex would keep me sat in the kitchen till the early hours having' conversations' about all that was wrong with me.
I would say that I also wanted to discuss things that i was unhappy about. he would say of course we would once we had addressed his points. When , after much time had elapsed, I would say that we still hadn't addressed my issues he would then say that we had and it wasn't his fault if I couldn't remember!
He would deny saying things and make things up. He would tell me black was white.
He would also claim that his behaviour was entirely a reaction to my own awful, disrespectful behaviour towards him. All i had to do was correct my behaviour and all would be good.
I'm ashamed to say that I spent years trying to 'fix' myself so that he would be nice to me.
he was also physically violent at times, but that was my fault too

The film is called Gaslight not Gaslighting. It was called that because one of the first things the husband did was to make the gas lights in the house flicker and she would see it but he would deny it was doing it, thus she thought she was losing the plot.

Gaslighting.

I used to go silent. Or leave the house...often without anywhere to go, just leave and come back a long time later...put the kids to bed then get in bed myself.

Well done for having an exit plan and yes- call the police if he smashes things...

Not sure what type of manipulation this is, OP.

I am sorry you are going through this. It's mental manipulation for sure and it's great you are finding a way out.

also:
If I wanted to do something my way for once I was told I was a control freak.
If I got angry with his behaviour and fought back I was told I was nasty and aggressive.
I was often told no other man would put up with me as I always wanted to be top dog.

Hollyoaks has had a good story line on gaslighting recently. I think may have helpes me realise what was happening.

If anyone watches it. Will (thenone in a wheelchair), my ex used to say "i hate you watching this because i know you think im just like him". I never indicated anything like that, id say will was scary.

Makes me wonder if he was as bad as him deep down, and he didnt want me to see the real him.
That gaslight film, i will have to watch.

I hope you get out soon, OP. Im pleased you are aware as that is half the battle!

Yes big buttons-

I was told I always wanted it my way... I used to think 'do I?' No I didn't, it was just when I put my opinion forward he didn't like it.

The self doubt is hideous....

It really is mamma. So hard to overcome, even when you are away from it!

wontletme, is the relationship between Patrick and Maxine 'gaslighting'

bigbuttons I think you are me - I could have written your post word for word. Although the hours long conversations were in bed so I would eventually fall asleep only to be woken either by a huge shove or by him trying to have sex on me.

I'm out and happy. Life can only get better.

Yes. Patrick is terrible for it! Hence why is ex wife was in the hospital!!

Why does he do that? by Lundy is very useful for picking out types of behaviour and the advantage they gain from each behaviour.

I had an ex that did this to spectacular effect. At the time it affected me terribly but as realisation dawned and I gave more of a : / face, he escalated to trying to shock me by bringing home things he had stolen from his clients. When this didn't shock me enough he went into full on OCD mode by cleaning his house for 72 hours straight including painting and even unscrewing screws and polishing the heads and re-seating them and finally collapsing into bed for days on end, not even getting up to feed the dog or let him out. I would leave, eventually return and he would be nice for a while until the Gaslighting started again. When I finally left, he lied to his parents that we were still together two years after. I look back now and think he was probably ASD/OCD/depressed and if I am honest, latently gay. Of course he could be just naturally horrible with no illness at all! He has never had a girlfriend that has stuck it since I left and that was in the nineties. Highly intelligent though and a fascinating person to be around when well (which was why I stuck it for so long I suppose). My advice is to LTB of course.

Thanx baahumbug. I had forgot about that book! I have just ordered from amazon

Do your dc ever witness this slamming of doors, etc? . I hope you get out sooner than a year OP. What a horrible man. Be careful. Write down any incidents. Tell someone in RL please. Once he knows you're planning to leave, he could make things very nasty.

btw his behaviour is known as 'being a complete and utter shit'

Thanks or that wontletme I knew it was abuse, just wasn't sure if it was 'gaslighting' as I'm not familiar with the terminology.

Sorry to hijack your thread, OP

Another one you may be thinking of is projection, where the abuser accuses you of thinking something that was in their mind, not yours. "Of course you were thinking it! It's written all over your face!" "Er, wtf?" It's quite common, for example, for cheaters to accuse their partners of being or wanting to be unfaithful. It's in their minds so they assume it must also be in yours. XH used to blame me for dishonesty because frankly he wouldn't know the truth if it bit him, whereas I am honest to a fault; and of wanting to pick an argument every time I didn't 100% agree with him or suggested there may be another way of looking at things, because obviously the only reason I did not see things exactly the way he did was because I wanted to be awkward. Why I should want to be awkward we never quite got to the bottom of. Why he should want to be awkward is very well explained by Saint Lundy of Bancroft. Unfortunately I read the book a few years too late.

As for gaslighting... yeah... if it were an Olympic sport he'd have been well in for a medal.

There's also distraction, where someone has been or is about to be called on behaving very badly, and immediately rounds on someone else to blame it on. Like if you were telling your child off for breaking something and in the middle of it he suddenly shouted "ouch" and said his little brother had pinched him, so the blaming is immediately split two ways and the focus shifts to the newer crime. I had a teacher who did this once; some members of the class were arguing with her and it looked as though they were winning the point, so she suddenly started to tell me off for sitting there looking insolent. This usefully took us to the end of the lesson. Even world leaders have sometimes been suspected of starting wars with small, not very offensive countries to distract from difficult domestic issues, so it's not unusual (I couldn't possibly comment on whether it's a fair point, this not being the place for political debate).

That was a really interesting post, annie