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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Urgent advice on how to handle situation with abusive ex-husband

35 replies

wallypops · 28/12/2013 16:20

Bit of background: 2 DDs - 8 & 9, live in France (18 years), exh French. Divorced (French courts) for 5 years - he has every other weekend and 1/2 the hols - except that his mother took us both to court and so she now has first 4 days, he gets 2nd 4 days and I get final 8 days for all the two week holidays of 2014 (Feb/March, April/May and Oct/Nov). 2013 I got the second 4 days and he got the 8 days. We swop weeks on alternate years.

He is NC with his whole family. Abusive drinker - not daily but completely out of control once the first drop touches his lips (but that is a side issue for the moment).

Massively emotionally abusive man - I've only realised how much since I've discovered Mumsnet! He pays (by agreement) nothing at all towards the kids, except for food at his house. Nothing towards any of their activities, school fees etc.

He is like his mother - and she is just as manipulative as him, will of iron and stubborn to the point of folly.

We live as far from the mountains as you can get in France. Children have an opportunity to go skiing with local village group in Feb/March - but it is in the first week of hols, so on his and his mother time. Both have agreed to swop time, so they get my holiday time with the kids - tough for me, but in best interests of children, but the kids get to go. Only ex is insisting that his mother supplies a written statement that she agrees to it. She refuses because I asked and she wants it to come from him. Neither give a flying fuck if the children miss out as long as they win.

In less than two hours he is coming to pick up the girls for his week with them. What can I say to him to make his understand that if he wants the statement he is going to have to contact her himself- she has categorically refused to do it for me. That this is interest of the kids - I have absolutely nothing to gain. That he has a duty of care to the kids not a right to them.

OK and the other issue is that he has a very virulent temper and the girls will be leaving with him - if he is angry they will be on the receiving end. So whatever I say I really don't want to piss him off. I want to give him an argument that he can't beat. I'm happy to make it all his mothers fault (she certainly is't helping) if necessary.

No point telling me to not let the children go, this is France and the laws are not friendly in that respect. As long as he isn't actually beating the children up (and there would need to be independent witnesses) they have to go. I have been taken to court 3 times by him and once by his mother, so I really do know this to be fact.

OP posts:

Walkacrossthesand · 28/12/2013 16:38

Who needs this written statement from exMIL? Do the school need it as part of the authority for the trip - or is your say-so enough? If ex is the one 'insisting' on it, why is it such a big deal to him to ask for it? Is there a risk that she will change her mind about the swap if he doesn't ask her for written confirmation?

Original poster

wallypops · 28/12/2013 16:55

Me ex "requires" the written statement - it's just the fun of making me jump through hoops as I try to the right thing by the kids.

We have joint parental authority and he is threatening to write to the organisers refusing authority. Otherwise my say so would be enough, but a letter from him would effectively scupper it and loose my the 500€ deposit. (Actually I have paid it yet, but he thinks I have).

There isn't a strong enough word to describe the loathing he feels for his mother (and probably me). She knows by insisting on this that the trip will basically be scuppered. I have bcc'ed her into my email correspondence with him.

She has given her agreement (provided that the children telephone her more ofter! - nothing for nothing for my family in law) and will not go back on it. She is extremely reliable, and I generally get on with her very well, but cross her at your peril.

OP posts:

Original poster

wallypops · 28/12/2013 16:57

I mean that my mother in law knows by insisting he contacts her to ask for a statement that the trip is scuppered because he wont contact her under any circumstances.

OP posts:

QueenofWhatever · 28/12/2013 17:03

It's between him and his mother - do not engage in their fucked up dynamics. He's threatening to screw up the kids' trip, but chances are he won't when it comes to it (bullies rarely want their behaviour going public). If he did, sad as it would be for the DCs, it might be a useful lesson in them seeing how their father really is. We can only protect our children for so long.

I also have an abusive ex here in the UK. I was 48 hours away from her losing a place at a school she wants to go to because he refused to consent. I got a solicitor to file court papers there and then and then he agreed to consent.

My advice is to have very firm boundaries and a zero tolerance attitude to everything. sadly, it's the only way.

Lweji · 28/12/2013 17:18

Yes, it's between them, and the children too.
It's for their benefit, you stay out.

Ultimately, your ex and his mother will pay the price with the children.

Original poster

wallypops · 28/12/2013 17:37

Thanks Queen and Lweji - I know you are right. I shall gird my loins for this discussion. The DDs both know the score - I'm afraid I am very up front with them. What I don't understand is why they think their behaviour is reasonable and that it is ok for the kids to miss out. It is all so f**d up.

OP posts:

Original poster

wallypops · 28/12/2013 17:42

SO the trip is cancelled - he refuses to contact her.

OP posts:

petalsandstars · 28/12/2013 17:49

Make sure DDs know exactly why. See how much fun granny is now. (Vindictive emoticon)

probably not good advice, I'm in a bad mood

petalsandstars · 28/12/2013 17:50

Or even daddy - urgh annoying myself now!

Original poster

wallypops · 28/12/2013 17:55

Im raging - trying not to cry in frustration. Don't worry the girls know why. Something has to change - I am going to try and get his parental authority removed. I really hope he gets drunk this week - I am going to get him, I am going to phone every evening while the girls are with him until I catch him and then I am going to call the police. Enough already.

OP posts:

Lweji · 28/12/2013 18:05

:( So sad for them.

But if they don't go, they will survive.

You seem to have a good plan, but it shouldn't be just because of this, more to protect them from his drunkenness and probable abuse.

Original poster

wallypops · 28/12/2013 18:12

I have been thinking about this for ages, but this time I've had it. I am going to wait and see if he backs down - can't see that that is going to happen - but you never know. Then we are all going to see my lawyer, to see if I can get him removed from parental authority. This would really be the best possible solution.

Failing that the the girls are going to finish their letters to the judge and get their own lawyer. Then we will see how the dynamic changes.

OP posts:

Lweji · 28/12/2013 18:19

Good luck. :)

Taking a back step with abusive people is often not the best strategy. Attack can be better.

QueenofWhatever · 28/12/2013 18:30

Sadly Lweji is right - in these situations, attack is often the best form of defence.

Your poor, poor DDs. Firstly that they miss their trip, and secondly that they have such an awful father and grandmother.

And poor you too.

Original poster

wallypops · 28/12/2013 18:53

His mother is gloating about it now - and he has just played into her hands by refusing. OMG such giant arses!

OP posts:

Lweji · 28/12/2013 18:55

Is she actually gloating or do you imagine she is?

Original poster

wallypops · 28/12/2013 19:18

To quote (translated)
" I think in the future we must organise things between us, during your dates and not put Exh in a position of power. It is out of the question that I lend sustenance to his sadomasochistic tendencies, or give in to his blackmail and ultimatums.....
It is time that he understands that we are adults, so logically we should behave as adults. We are all three concerned and this is why it is wisest that in the future we leave him out of our plans and relegate his role of father to the time legally accorded to him, and not that of a responsible adult.
To preserve the girls from the psychological impacts of these conflictual situations it would be better to unveil our plans once they are finalised and we are sure that nothing can prevent them."

Personally I think he has played into her hands. The girls suffer, but he is the one that looks most like an arsehole. (Although that is the truth she is far from blameless in all this.)

OP posts:

Lweji · 28/12/2013 19:56

I would reply to her that it is only the children who have suffered. He hasn't because he doesn't care about them.

I wonder what a court would think of the effect of their infighting on the children, but best of all is not to give power to either.

HissymasJumper · 28/12/2013 20:07

Wtaf? This woman, his mother, your ex mil, GM to these children is coming between her GC's parents? Deliberately stuffing up her own GC holiday because she can?

The solution is to remove their father's parental rights?

How on earth is that the thing to do?

If no-body actually is demanding the letter with her express approval except him, then they can go without it surely?

He's said he's fine with them going, you are, and the GM. His asking for a letter from a person he refuses to speak to is just boloni

I'm hoping that a lawyer will be able to make some sense of this for you and for the dc. I also hope that the dc can get their own voices heard soon and state their wishes/preferences for contact etc.

I have a sense that this will change the game a little!

HissymasJumper · 28/12/2013 20:11

If you can get the balance of power shifted to the dc, away from GM and if he is as dangerous and abusive as is alluded to, to seriously curtail his demands, then the girls will suffer a lot less.

Original poster

wallypops · 28/12/2013 20:45

Its all a power play to the two of them - but she is way better at it than him, because he thinks he is cleverer than everyone else and he is no longer as bright and brilliant as he thinks he is. However - here is his some of his (translated) email to me.

Hi Provocative Name (designed to annoy me)

One mustn't put the cart before the horse. This proverb indicates that one must proceed in the correct order.
There is no point in you sending the proof of their inscription to the skiing holiday, because if my demands are not satisfied their holiday will fall be the wayside. I am, in effect, going to put into play my rights, and write to Mme X (the holiday organiser), by recommended letter, opposing their depart during my time with them, because for the last time you have not satisfied my demands:

A letter from the grandparent attesting that they agree to give up their right to access during their 4 proscribed days during these holiday so that they girls may go (this is what my exml wont do)
A letter from you attesting to your agreement to retrocede (not sure if you can use this in English) the weekend of my birthday in June plus another weekend of your choice.

Once I am in possession of these documents I will allow the girls to leave. Without these documents, you are wasting your time trying to enrol them. Understand me I already do not see the girls a lot (I originally offered him 50/50 - he refused it - I wanted the children therefore I should "suffer the consequences" alone!!. Then he went back to court a year after the divorce, made up a bunch of horse shit - such as he had a master degree as opposed to my degree therefore he was the better parent, it was thrown out.), and their grandparents are procedural (? like going to court) I will give nothing without them giving something and above all I will not give my agreement that they go on this holiday on my time."

Anyway that's about a third of one of the three emails from him on the subject. But you can see that the son didn't fall that far from the tree, as they say here - or cats don't give birth to dogs!

OP posts:

Lweji · 28/12/2013 21:11

The only way is to tell him and her, that it's fine, to do as they please. All the same to you, because you'd rather spend the holiday with the children anyway.
It will be the children who will be sad at missing the holiday activity. They can do as they like and face the consequences of their behaviour with the children.

As an example, the best way I found to get exH to be more or less reliable with contacting DS was to make contact more difficult. Sigh.

CCTVmum · 28/12/2013 21:38

Oh no dont tell your ex yet, wait for week to finish and they are safe from any wrath of anger he may have over the DM. No wonder your ex is damaged with a DM like that!

Sadly if your poor dc who are suffering and may miss out but then make their own choice then as an adult when they no longer used as object of control over Ex by DM as that is what it is all about really!

Can you take this back to court to say MIL not acting in best interest of dc...not allowing school trips for peer relationship and interaction development?

HissymasJumper · 28/12/2013 22:10

Does the holiday company need BOTH your approval AND that of the GM and their father?

I'd imagine that as long as someone's approved the trip and paid the money they'd be good to go! Not like they are leaving the country is it?

I agree with cctv don't mention it at all to him at pick up.

Would it bother the GM and their father if the children knew full well that it was their shitty power games that fucked up their much wanted holiday? That they are the ones to blame, and everyone knew it?

Usually abusers hate to think that everyone thinks they are shit people. Image is everything to them.

Lweji · 28/12/2013 22:27

TBH, it sounds like he wouldn't agree to the trip anyway, and asking for his mother's written agreement was just his way of finding an excuse. Particularly because it sounds like an activity you organised. The same for his mother.

I think the children will have to realise that they may not be able to have such activities during the times they have them. Or let the children do the asking and let them say no to them directly.

They are perfectly entitled to say no, though. As any parent is able to say no to activities for their children. Don't lose any sleep over it. It is just not worth it.

I'd really be more worried about his drinking and whether he is abusing them emotionally or not.

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