My DM and presents...

[Souper]

Please help me to understand what is going on and what to do here.

If I ask my DM what she would like for Christmas or her birthday she says with a martyred sigh "Nothing." But if I actually did buy her nothing she would cry (not rant or shout or say anything at the time) and be really disappointed.

So every single year I rack my brains trying to think of something to get her. She is really difficult to buy for! She has literally no hobbies or interests. She doesn't do anything at all. She hasn't worked for about 30 years and all of her interests have gradually fallen by the wayside in the last ten years. She isn't interested in clothes or cosmetics, no television programs, doesn't watch films, doesn't garden. She does read thriller type detective novels but wouldn't use a Kindle.

The last few years I have bought her presents that she has tonelessly said "Thanks" for... Only for me to see them later in the box for the charity shop. These have been good quality items that I honestly thought she might like, that I have spent time thinking up and getting.

By the way, when she buys presents for me and DH she is very stroppy about it if I don't specify exactly what we would like - to the point of sending a link. I don't mind doing this, I feel that it is better as we are all adults that we get presents that we genuinely want. But a bit of help the other way would be appreciated, or at least try to look grateful for what I have ought her if she can't be bothered to think what she would like!

What can I do here? Anyone else having a similar problem?

Pictures of your son sounds a really good idea. She's got to like that, or at least pretend to.

It sounds like a complete no-hoper otherwise OP. If she's lost a lot of the enjoyemnt in previous activities, is she slightly depressed, as someone suggested? Has she become very withdrawn?

But surely "being manipulative" is about getting what you want? It doesn't sound as if your DM is getting anything out of her behaviour....

It's interesting. If she had stopped driving only since your DF retired then one might say it was about control - but the fact that she'd stopped driving on motorways long before suggests pretty serious anxiety issues.

And they don't give each other presents? Are they happy together? Or is this just the Mnet "no adult presents" rule? Either way it seems rather sad.

No-one is born unable to enjoy life - so what happened to cause this? She obviously at one time had enough enthusiasm to fall in love, get married and have a child..... And it sounds as if she found motherhood sufficiently absorbing for it to mask any other issues. The thing is, there's nothing left now to take her out of herself - so the issue whatever it is - has taken over.

What does your DF have to contribute to this situation?

I think her DM is getting something out of her behaviour, she plays the martyr, wants everyone to run around and make her the centre of attention? Is she jealous that your ds is now the centre of your universe and not her?

tk maxx do vouchers

How about an afternoon tea voucher for her and a friend/ you?

cabrinha her life IS very dull. I feel like I am solely responsible for her engagement with life at times! But the problem with that is it is a bit overwhelming. I have a DS and expecting another baby. I work (admittedly only part time) but my job is very demanding with a lot of responsibility and emotional baggage. I feel like I don't have enough emotional bandwidth to be responsible for her happiness too.

Zero she keeps a lot of her behaviour from my DF. For example, when she rings me to cry she will wait until he has gone out. He is basically a good guy, I think, but he likes a quiet life. He is also a bit downtrodden by her because she was the one in charge of the plans. He has a few little hobbies in his retirement.

Random I don't think she is jealous of DS - she dotes on him, actually. She doesn't like DH, that is abundantly clear, but for no particular reason. I would say that she deliberately takes offence from him when there is no reason to. I think this is a more likely jealously scenario - especially as he is the reason that I don't live just down the road from her!

Ah well it sounds like that is part of the answer!

Sounds like she misses the relationshio she had with you before you got married and is stuck in that role and still pining for it? She has your dad there for her pretty much full time, she's not your emotional responsibility tbh.

Maybe she doesn't like receiving gifts because of something in her past that she hasn't discussed with you. Plenty of people can't enjoy christmas / birthdays for one reason or another.

Hmm.
To be honest though I think she just sounds very depressed. No interests etc.

As such, the present thing is a symptom and you won't be able to fix it because it isn't the real problem. You can't fix someone else's depression either though.

Just keep offering her love I guess!

Hi OP welcome to my world!

Mines been like this for ever.

I have given up caring if she likes it or not. ( and I'm always ready for the insults in January)

sorry if its already been mentioned but what about afternoon tea somewhere?

If I try to tell her she is being unreasonable (or discuss it in a gentle, mature way) she will put the phone down on me and then not talk to me for a while. In fact, she would probably call back and say that she isn't going to come for Christmas anymore. If i do anything that she doesn't like she cuts me off for a while. When I originally moved house - which was unavoidable, I had to for work - she didn't speak to me for a year.

I'm not going to suggest any presents for your mother. It's unimportant, and I am sure you are right - she will find a way to react with disappointment or hurt WHATEVER you do. My suggestion is for you. Please find a therapist and start to talk about your relationship with your mother. Your thoughts seem completely tangled with wanting to please her and anticipating the consequences of not doing so. It sounds utterly exhausting. It's time to think about yourself, your needs, your family, your happiness. Please start to think about stepping back from the bottomless pit that is your mother, and think about giving your love to those around you who might appreciate it and you. x

Geez

She is prize manipulator, always playing the victim. Always her way/what she wants or it's tears are you feel the FOG - Fear Obligation Guilt and desperately try to appease her but it's never quite good enough...

Ah. Finally. So she's punishing you?

Not that that explains why she is as she is, just what's going on with the gift business.

A whole year? Sorry OP - you're stuffed.

Hmm - Souper, I think you put your finger on it earlier when you said it's your reaction that is the problem. It's time to accept that and understand it. Counselling may help. Is that something you would consider?

You cannot make your Mum happy - you absolutely cannot - and nobody else can either. Please stop trying - it is a waste of your life - which is both precious and important. Buy her some nice bath stuff and accept that she won't like it/give it to charity and get on with your life.

When my daughter is older, I would be more than happy with a token gift from her. More importantly, I would just love to see her at Christmas (luckily she's still young and I get to see her anyway - she's worth a million and one Christmas presents).

I don't mean to sound off-hand (and hope I don't), but your Mum really isn't going to change. It's not about you.

I think counselling may well be the way forward. How do I find a counsellor privately / tell if they are good?

www.bacp.co.uk/

also have a look at this info www.nhs.uk/conditions/Counselling/Pages/Introduction.aspx

how to tell if they're good? that's kind of really important, because a bad counsellor is (at the very best) a waste of money. And a good one can change yoru life for the vastly better. I googled a bit and the first link was this: www.metanoia.org/choose/gethelp03.htm which looks a bit in-depth but you can have a look and see what you think.

For you, I suspect you need the counselling to really uncover what's been going on at a deeper level but also, you'll need hints on how to develop coping strategies with your mother. You're unlikely to be able to change her, but you can change how you handle it and feel about it.

It really is much more than just christmas presents isnt it. She's on an apparently-gentle control kick here. Think counselling is probablly a very good idea.

Oh yes, with a therapist, you really need some sort of click after a few sessions. If that isnt there, then you won't get too far. People can be perfectly good therapists but just not quite right for you.

I know the present suggestions are a bit irrelevant but how about a joint present with your DF, then its more difficult for her to dislike it (or at the very least he'll like it). Perhaps a meal out together?

Otherwise I'd go with the grandchild photos. Dare her not to like them!!

I feel a lot better about it this morning. Zero you're right! I AM stuffed!
Yesterday I was swinging between being really cross about DM and feeling tearful. It is completely not about the presents.

I was thinking, as I was falling asleep, about the first time DM and DF came to see my new house, about five years ago. Something happened to upset her - I can't honestly remember what it was. I think it might have been that DH had the temerity to attend his usual Saturday morning gym class. She refused to eat any dinner, retired to bed at 6pm and the next morning she made DF get up and set off for their home at 6am before I had woken up. I was really confused that I couldn't find them in the house the next morning! She wasn't talking to me for a while after that but I heard that apparently she 'had never been made to feel so unwelcome.'

You poor, poor thing!

I bet you'd scrubbed everything in sight, spent two days laundering bed-linen, bought the most expensive flowers in the shop? I can feel your confusion - and then the dawning realization....

Well, from a distance, and in the full knowledge that I can walk away from this in a couple of minutes, it does sound as if your DM has a very very severe case of empty nest syndrome. And having it so severely surely suggests some underlying problem. (Sorry, I wouldn't like anyone to talk about my DM like this...)

She doesn't like your DH? Tick.

I wonder, did she stop being able to drive on motorways at about the time you moved three hours away? (Tick?)

Actually poor her. Her heart was probably breaking as she saw how happy you and your DH were in your new house. It's all very sad OP.

BTW you don't mention any siblings. Are you an only child?

I have exactly the same scenario OP. I choose, buy & wrap all my DMs presents, even for myself, & then when I ask her what she wants I get the martyred "nothing" or the passive aggressive "just to be able to walk without pain would be nice".

There is absolutely nothing you can do for someone who wants to be disappointed/offended/upset with what you give them for Christmas, the decision has already been made by them before they receive anything.

I have had an old photograph of my late lovely DF restored & framed to give to my DM, I know she will like it but my dilemma is when to hand it over. If I do it before the Christmas lunch she will probably start crying & everyone will be upset, if I leave it until I take her home she will start crying & I won't be able to escape. She wouldn't dream of hiding her emotions because then it wouldn't be all about her would it?

Only for me to see them later in the box for the charity shop.

Did you mean this literally? It's just that you said you were only at hers once a month, and it would be very easy for her to hide the box/not put the stuff you gave her in it for your one visit a month if she wanted to be subtle.

She sounds as if she is deliberately trying to hurt your feelings. I'm sorry.

Zero no she couldn't drive on motorways for as long as I can remember, but used to be perfectly happy driving around town. I don't really know why somebody would deliberately make themselves less independent though - they live in a rural area and if something happened to DF she would be utterly stranded. I don't suppose that she would suddenly be able to start driving again now after not doing so for so long.

I think you are entirely right about empty nest syndrome.

I do have a sister but her relationship with DM is very different. She is quite a bit older than me and left home aged 16. They have always had a much more tumultuous relationship and I can remember growing up that there would frequently be periods of months or years when they were not speaking to each other. Family friends would say "Ah but DM and Dsis are too alike." and as a child and a teenager I believed this and didn't think too hard about it. It sort of fitted with the world view, as I have always been said to be like DF, and I never had any problems like this with DM until I was an adult.

I don't know whether I had a smooth relationship with DM because I was very compliant or if I was very compliant in order to have a smooth relationship?! Unfortunately now I am an adult I have other responsibilities that I can't just drop to please her and I suppose that is why we are having problems now.

To the posters who have said that I seem anxious to please DM - I think you are every right. It really matters to me what people think of me and I want people to like me.

My relationship with DM is making me anxious in these last few years though. I generally have more of a sense of humour about it, and try to be philosophical - I know I can't really change her. But every time the phone goes I am on edge waiting for the complaining, every time we visit I am waiting to see if something 'terrible' will happen. In the space of ten seconds I can go from having what I thought was a pleasant chat on the phone to standing listening to a dial tone thinking 'WTF happened there?'