How to deal with this type of behaviour from MIL?

[Thosecrazyinlaws]

I have changed my regular posting name because I want some advice based on what has been happening and what has been said without changing information and this is very identifiable.

I realised very early on that my MILs behaviour wasn't normal, she is very highly strung and irrational and a master at twisting things or just plain making things up. I believe she is a classic narcissist for many reasons: things must revolve around her or she gets upset, she plays her sons off against each other, her husband is completely enabling of her behaviour (or she makes his life a misery). She is very caught up in how people think of her - that her friends think she is wonderful, so generous etc. and what they think of her husband and sons (how badly they treat her - though I am never sure if the constant 'my friends think you treat me terribly' line is made up).

Today there has been another in a long line of outbursts where she has accused my partner of being jealous of his brother's Christmas present. It's not true - he went to help her pick it, encouraged her to get the more expensive version and basically thinks she is free to spend her money how she wants. She said how her other son deserves expensive things because he has been so good to her. He asked her not to be hurtful by saying that and it turns into him being madly jealous in her eyes and she becomes so irrational.

She has been shouting and screaming at him tonight as she tends to do on these occasions as well as phoning and texting me to tell me how hurt she is, what an awful person he is, how he twists things. Having been there on numerous occasions where she has been spoiling for a fight I know it is her twisting things and I want to know how I can point this out to her without escalating the problem. I have a sinking feeling she will never accept it and I am fighting a losing battle but for my partner's sake I want to try.

My current strategy at the moment is just placating her e.g. 'I know that was a nasty thing to say, but we all say things we don't mean when we are angry don't we?' It is patronising but I am trying to get her to see things from his side or admit fault, which I know she will never do.

Usually he gets angry and joins in the argument, over the years I have talked him down a little and asked him to think about what he says knowing she is storing up ammo against him. She winds him up to such a degree I understand why he finds it hard to hold his tongue though. Sometimes he gets mad, but he apologises like he did today but this seems to make her worse. She is spoiling for a fight and goes into a rage when she realises he is not fighting back.

I feel desperately sorry for him, he has had years of her telling him he is good for nothing and will never amount to anything, threatening to throw him out when he was a teen and cut him off now. When his dad was in ITU after a life-threatening accident she threatened to make sure he would never see him again after one row, he came home and wept because he knew she was nasty enough to stop him visiting. I hold her completely responsible for his anxiety problems and low self esteem. He does not want to cut her out of his life because it would mean not seeing his dad (his dad would never go against his mum).

I'm sorry for the epic post but I am at the end of my tether with her. My mum was visiting tonight and saw my MIL accuse my partner of saying and doing horrible things. My family dynamic is nothing like this. I am at a loss to understand or explain it to them. My parents just don't understand that a mother would say or do such things so I am constantly having to try to explain it is her and not my partner at fault. As of tonight we are barred from the family Christmas, she will expect this to be forgotten when she wants, I feel like making other plans and telling her why.

Can you have a relationship with a narcissistic?

It depends on the narcissistic.

I have successfullly done it but, reading these forums and other people's experiences, it was done in the only way possible. By keeping a distance. You can't expect a loving relationship like you normally would have with a close family member. I saw her every year or so, spoke on phone every few months. The calls were polite, had a certain warmth, and were fairly brief by my wish. They lasted until her death.

The reason why I could keep any contact at all with this family member was that she knew, becuase I'd done it, that I'd walk away and go totally NC if she behaved badly towards me. Sadly there was nothing I could do about her behaviour towards others.

The biggest problem you have is that her husband is under her thumb. I think you need to tackle this, and to keep him reading Toxic Parents and Children of the Self Absorbed. Then, you and he need to keep a united front. I'm afraid that also you -will- have to face some of the strops at times, some of the toddler rages. Both of you. And deal with them the same as a toddler; stay calm, stay in control of yourselves and stay united. If its any help, she's most likely to eventually accept it a bit, and calm down ..a bit. There is a chance she will choose to go NC with you, but at a guess in your case that's less likely.

Pick the big battles first. I would say that a nice day away with your DH is a big battle, so is xmas. Don't answer the phone that day, or if she rings the day before, simply say 'no, I'm afraid we can't". Yes she will be angry, yes for the first timjes it happens you two will both be on edge, but it -will- help in the long term.

Change is always hard, but you stand to gain a much more endurable situation for you both (or all three, with yoru bro-in-law).

Btw, its not always possible to keep a relationship with a narcissist. The reason why I could, was that she did not, underneath it all, want me to looose all contact so she moderated her behaviour juuuuust enough.

Given distance, or only transient and intermittent contact, you can get along with narcissists by treating them as infants: you give them whatever they want or need whenever they ask and do not expect any reciprocation at all, do not expect them to show the slightest interest in you or your life (or even in why you're bothering with them at all), do not expect them to be able to do anything that you need or want, do not expect them to apologize or make amends or show any consideration for your feelings, do not expect them to take ordinary responsibility in any way. But note: they are not infants; infants develop and mature and require this kind of care for only a brief period, after which they are on the road to autonomy and looking after themselves, whereas narcissists never outgrow their demands for dedicated attention to their infantile needs 168 hours a week. Adult narcissists can be as demanding of your time and energy as little babies but without the gratification of their growing or learning anything from what they suck from you. Babies love you back, but adult narcissists are like vampires: they will take all you can give while giving nothing back, then curse you for running dry and discard you as a waste of their precious time.

It is also essential that you keep emotional distance from narcissists. They're pretty good at maintaining a conventional persona in superficial associations with people who mean absolutely nothing to them, and they'll flatter the hell out of you if you have something they can use or if, for some reason, they perceive you as an authority figure. That is, as long as they think you don't count or they're afraid of you, they'll treat you well enough that you may mistake it for love. But, as soon as you try to get close to them, they'll say that you are too demanding and, if you ever say "I love you," they'll presume that you belong to them as a possession or an appendage, and treat you very very badly right away. The abrupt change from decent treatment to outright abuse is very shocking and bewildering, and it's so contrary to normal experience that I was plenty old before I realized that it was actually my expression of affection that triggered the narcissists' nasty reactions. Once they know you are emotionally attached to them, they expect to be able to use you like an appliance and shove you around like a piece of furniture. If you object, then they'll say that obviously you don't really love them or else you'd let them do whatever they want with you. If you should be so uppity as to express a mind and heart of your own, then they will cut you off just like that, sometimes trashing you and all your friends on the way out the door. The narcissist will treat you just like a broken toy or tool or an unruly body part: "If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off" [Matt. 18:8]. This means you.

So, yes, it's possible to get along with narcissists, but it's probably not worth bothering with.

Re your comment which I have split:-

"For anybody who has a narcissistic parent or parent-in-law is no contact the only way to ever go?"

My response is that low contact or no contact are the only two sustainable options but in your case I would actually go no contact.

"It is confusing because she can be a normal, supportive mum then she just changes. I think we already have strong boundaries with her in terms of not spending all our free time with them, it is really important to me especially since we have had our baby, but we need to work on dealing with outbursts better. If we are successful with this can we still maintain a good relationship or am I asking for too much?"

Both of you need to maintain and firm up boundaries; these have been far too low/non existent to date (particularly from you and I mean that kindly because you have not really known till now what she is really like) and she has taken full advantage of this. You cannot appeal to her better nature because she simply does not have one!.

Why do you think she can be a normal, supportive mum or is this still something that you actually wish her to be or actually was?. ALL her behaviours suggest otherwise. You are fortunately from a normal emotionally healthy family as well so I do not blame you at all for thinking like this but toxic families never play by the "normal" rules of familial interaction.

I would keep your child well away from her because narcissists can be and are awful grandparents.

You're asking for too much and you still do not really fully get the whole dysfunctional dynamics.

OP I'm really glad yo hear that you are trying to find alternative ways of dealing with your MIL. You must really love your Dh to put up with all this crap and have been dealing with it to the best of your abilities. My own mother's behaviour seems crazy and unimaginable at times, and i have been used to it for the last 35 years, so i can barely begin to think how this sort of behaviour looks to people like yourself and my own DH who come from 'normal' loving families.

In my experience, it IS possible to continue a relationship with her if you go low contact as advised above. However, it depends really - i tried for many years but just couldn't. I found myself getting sucked into rows and drama because each time i had contact with my mum it was like someone ripping a plaster off. I was too hurt and wanted to have a normal mother-daughter relationship and every cruel act just reminded me of what i could never have, each criticism chipped away at my self-esteem a little bit more. I needed to cut contact altogether and whilst it is still tricky at times, i am much happier and confident than i ever have been.

My brother and sister both have low contact, though they also enable her at times too. They both get sucked in and upset over her actions but for the most part they are able to continue with their lives quite happily. I believe that this is because they found it easier to emotionally detach than me. Reading your posts i wonder if your DH is more like me, perhaps she has such a hold on him that the only way to be free would be no contact. But both of you could try low contact and see how it works. It is less drastic than cutting all contact.

I started it by not answering the phone. Get caller id or am answering machine. She can leave 20 messages but you don't have to call back straight away. Only when you are ready. Your husband did not have to answer the phone on your birthday. And you can turn your phone off.

When you do speak just say sorry I didn't answer the phone, I was busy, the battery died was in a library and had to turn it off, left it at home and so on.

Then you ask them a question about themselves. So how was your day? Did you see the Christmas lights, did you see that program on tv, are you enjoying the weather.?

To a narc the world revolves around them. Keep the questions focused on them and keep them coming. If they ask about you, give them very little detail and then ask them a question about them.

I have now, slowly but surely dwindled my contact with my mum down to a text for her birthday and and a phone call at Christmas. She knows nothing about my life.

Remember, you don't have to answer the phone and don't give them any personal details about yourself n

Sadly there are men and women all over the world with toxic parents OP you may not be that easily identifiable.

Crikey

The stamp thing was so transparent wasn't it.

If you we're in a better place you would be able to laugh at the blatant attempt to muscle in on our day out.

'I need a stamp. Bring one now'

'No mum. They sell them in shops. If you need one. Go buy one.'

' the card will be late and it is ALL YOUR FAULT'

'No mum, you need to be better organised'

Or better still turn our phone off and have a nice time without her looming over everything.

Actually I wouldn't say "sorry" for not answering the phone. I wouldn't give any explanation at all. I've recently learned (and been practicing a lot) the power of silence. It's amazing how powerful it is

MIL: oh hello OP I've called you 27 times this morning and you didn't answer

OP: no, I was out

MIL: oh oh, I thought something may have happened to you, I was worried

OP: no, nothing happened, I was out

MIL now starts to feel uncomfortable and will start trying to fill the silence. Trust me it works. Not easy to do at first, but the better you get at it, the more effective it becomes. I treat it like a game now and am laughing inside. It makes me feel as if I've got some control back.

She's so very hard to work out, it is interesting to read all of your experiences to spot what is the same and ways in which she differs.

I knew from quite early on in my relationship there was something about her. My partner would say things that seemed really strange - comments about things his mother had said or did that seemed very unlike the woman I had met, I used to think he must have got it wrong and misinterpreted what she had said because she seemed nice, normal. I used to stick up for her and encourage him to apologise, I had no idea what was actually going on. Gradually things started slipping out around me, the nasty comments and sly digs. Or phone calls to him about some perceived slight where she would rant so I could hear, never about me, always him.

She talks about me behind my back though and also tells him I will never stay with him as nobody could put up with him. She does the same to my SIL - she is greedy and a thief apparently! What I find hard is her criticising me behind my back and praising me to the heavens to my face. I know she was putting thoughts into his head when our baby was very young, he had colic and problems feeding and she was saying he was starving, that there was something wrong with him behind my back yet telling me he was fine. I actually heard her on one occasion using such a nasty tone to tell him there was something wrong, then come in to the room where I was and talk about how he was thriving and how well I was doing. I was in such a state I didn't have the energy to say anything.

Aussiebean ha I spend a large part of my day avoiding calls and texts from her as I sometimes just don't have the energy to deal with her.