Staying together for the sake of the children. EA husband.

[piper21]

I feel I need a support thread as there is no-one in rl I can talk to

DH and I are in a bad place. We have good phases and bad phases and now is a bad phase.

He is EA but I am also not without blame.

He is a wonderful father and spends a lot of time with the dcs. He really puts in effort and he also pulls his weight around the house.

But he is unhinged. He is very very intelligent and is an Alpha male type. He holds a very high opinion of himself and I think he has narcissistic personality disorder traits.

He loathes my family, especially my parents. He doesn't like many people except his group of friends from university. He is rude to people eg neighbours.

He holds many views that are unpalatable in the modern world. Eg he is anti gay marriage and gay culture. He doesn't want ds to have pink girly toys in case they 'give him wrong ideas'.

There is so much more to say.

I can't leave him as we have three very small dc. I couldn't manage on my own as it is exhausting dealing with them even with his help (he works from home so helps throughout the day). But more importantly I feel they need him. They adore him. He adores them. He provides discipline and firmness that I can't achieve. We would never agree an amicable divorce because he would want full custody. He would never accept even joint custody and I couldn't bear not to see them every day.

Is anyone else out there sticking together for the sake of the kids? If so please tell me how you manage.

Staying together for kids never ends well, please don't kid yourself there. Kids aren't stupid, they are using your relationship to create their own future ones, do you really want them to see yours and think that it's ok? If he is EA, they will be affected, more than you think.

Are you the primary carer? How old are your kids? It doesn't matter what he will or won't accept, if you are the main carer, most family courts will keep the status quo. Have you had any legal advice?

You can leave him you know. Your kids need a happy mum and if he is that good a dad he will be just as good when he can't hurt you at the same time. You don't have to live like this. Life is not so hard when you don't have someone putting you down and making everything worse. Life can be fun, full of people who love you and respect you. Would you advise your DD to stay in a relationship like this?

Don't stay with in AE-er, it will make you miserable and subsequently your children, and on top of that, teach them that this is ok. :(

He wouldn't get full custody OP, and in reality I bet he wouldn't want it. How would he work at his high-flying, super intelligent job? He'd 'just' be a house husband, his type never really want that in a million years they just threaten it to keep you in your place.

How old are your DC? Will they be in nursery/school soon? Would you get any rl support with the DC if you did leave? Being a lp is hard but thousands of women do it and very successfully and happily too. You just need some mechanisms in place to make it possible.

Living long-term with an ea-er saps your confidence, is confusing and draining. It can also make you very depressed and anxious. It might not be possible to stay with him for very long.

But you can take your time to get a leaving plan together. Start with finding out where you stand by consulting a solicitor under their free first half hour. Explore benefits, housing, childcare etc and see what is possible. Try not to magnify any obstacles but look into how you can overcome them.

Keep posting OP and have you looked on the support for those in an ea relationship thread?

You WOULD manage, many women have. Please don't stay with someone who is such a bad role model for the kids.

As said above start getting an escape plan together & explore your options.

There is mre help out there than you think bit also I bet your family would be relieved you've left him & would help if they could

Please think about what this is teaching your children. Consciously or otherwise, they will regard his behaviour as normal. Not just the way he treats you, but his rudeness to others. Surely this isn't what you want for them?

He sounds like my exh (which is why I left him). My children are so much happier since we left and since I am happy again.

EA men are not wonderful fathers. It is not wonderful for children to grow up watching their mothers be mistreated. He is setting a terrible example for how they grow up seeing relationships, and it is hugely emotionally damaging for them - witnessing abuse for children is actually the same as being abused themselves.

And often EA men just get worse - he may or may not cross the boundary into verbal / physical abuse.

I am also not without blame It is very typical for abusers to try to convince the abused partner that they are the one to blame because they are just not good enough.

He would not get full custody. It is not up to him to "accept" joint custody or not, the court would decide.

Please look into your options for leaving him - it doesn't mean you have to leave him yet, but just educate yourself on what would happen if you did, i.e. see a lawyer as another poster suggested, speak to women's aid, put together a plan, etc.

Hi Piper,
I am in a very similar situation to yourself. I have been married to an emotionally abusive man for the last 15 years and it has taken a toll on my mental well being. Like your DH, my spouse is a wonderful father and high achiever; he has no friends, so our 3 DC's are the sole object of his attention and he would never accept them living away from him. It sounds like your DC's are younger than mine (mine are 15,13 and 6), all I can say is that I deeply regret not having left years ago. The longer it goes on the harder it is to extract yourself from them.
Please don't do what I have done.

the strarting point is 50/50 and shared residence unless there are reasons (addiction to hard drugs, very severe MH such that you cannto function, etc) which means you should not have at least fifty fifty care of them.

if you both equally bad its horrid for the dc.

What on earth have your poor children done to deserve living with such a horrible man day in, day out? How do you think the narsacistic parts of his character will react when they are older and don't want to tow the party line any more?

I can see you are in a very difficult position but whether you stay or not, please cut the 'for the sake of the children' crap position. They should not be held responsible for his abuse of you, or his inevitable abuse of them.

My father has narsacistic traits (although I didn't realise it til well into adulthood). My mum stayed 'for the sake of the children'. Not only did I have an increasingly miserable childhood but I then got years of crippling guilt that she'd destroyed her life for us (and secretly I was ungrateful for her sacrifice). It wasn't til my early 40s that I could admit to myself that it was her choice, and I didn't have to be grateful and even start to voice some internal doubts as to whether leaving us kids in his path was actually good parenting.

Oh and I loved my dad and would have been devestated if my mum had divorced him - at the time. Since I've had my own kids I see things rather differently.

'My mum stayed 'for the sake of the children'. Not only did I have an increasingly miserable childhood but I then got years of crippling guilt that she'd destroyed her life for us (and secretly I was ungrateful for her sacrifice). '

Same here. Please don't kid yourself that the kids will be oblivious to how miserable you are, or grateful for your 'sacrifice' in the future. This man does not sound like a good father at all. He sounds hell to live with. You don't have to put up with it OP, you really don't. This will wear you down further and further as time goes on. Your kids need a happy mum who feels safe, not a martyr who is miserable.

Spending time with your kids and pulling your weight with housework do not get anyone any gold stars by the way. That's what you're supposed to do, as a bare minimum. It takes a lot more than that to make someone a wonderful parent.

Lots of very experienced posters giving great advice, better than what I could say. But I'm still going to say it - I'm sorry, but it won't end well. I understand that leaving him must be a terrifying thought and not something you should just leap at unless you feel unsafe.

However, if he is EA to you and an arse to most other people, what mkes you think that he won't, one day, be the same to your children?

And as other posters say, your children will one day realise that you stayed, very unhappily, in this relationship, and that thought won't make them happy.

He holds some ignorant opinions for someone who is 'very intelligent'. What happens if one of your kids turn out to be gay?

People who have a very high opinion of themselves are often very insecure underneath. That may be why he hates everyone except a few friends - they're the only people he feels safe with. He may hate himself and projects that hatred onto other people.

How 'unhinged' are his unhinged episodes? It's difficult to advise without knowing the full extent of it.

Never stay for the sake of the children; it just wreaks their own views on relationships and gives each of them a whole stack of emotional issues. Do not burden them with such adult decisions and do not pin all this responsibility on them. You could well damage also your own long term relationship with your children if you choose to stay because they could well ask of you why you were so weak and put their crap dad before them. If you then answer, "well I did it for you" they will frankly call you stupid for doing so.

You will only teach your children further how to be victims of abuse if you stay with such an abusive man and they could well go onto have abusive relationships of their own.

They will not thank you for staying and if he is indeed narcissistic, then he uses them as his own personal narcissistic supply.

You are better off apart, you will be a lot happier. No obstacle is actually insurmountable when it comes to leaving and you and your children will be happier without this dominator narcissistic of a dad (and no they do not adore him either, they are afraid of him and act accordingly around him i.e quiet and compliant).

Thanks for the replies so far.

I will respond properly a bit later as I have my hands full during the day with my baby and toddler. We have another dc at school.

We are barely speaking at the moment. This is because I accidentally left some prescription medicine out on top of the microwave in our kitchen. He lectured me for nearly half an hour, not letting me get a word in, eventually demanding an apology and a guarantee I won't do it again. The way he speaks to me is so awful. If I was 13 it might be ok but it reduces me to tears ("look at you, weeping" he says scornfully) and because I've "weeped and wailed" I am the one at fault because he "can't talk to me"

No it would not have been ok if you had been 13 either actually.

It is NOT your fault he is like this.

Piper - please talk to Womens Aid as well as continuing to post here. Seek outside help from your friends and family and plan your exit before he completely destroys you and by turn your children. I would also urge you to seek proper legal advice because this man will undoubtedly turn nasty in the event of separation and subsequent divorce proceedings.

OP, this is not normal, not ok, not in any way acceptable. It sounds like he enjoys watching you crumble in front of him. Seriously, horribly emotionally abusive. This man is no sort of father.

You poor thing, you must be in agony from the pain of the whole situation. Agree completely with Attila (as usual!) - keep posting and contact Women's Aid, and obtain legal advice.

Please listen piper, you and your children are suffereing.
You are the one that can stop this legacy of pain for them.

Ummm... yes, that's unhinged. That's genuinely a terrible thing to do, and he sounds far worse than you painted him in your first post. Was he angry that the medicine had been left somewhere the children might get hold of it, or just because it wasn't the "right" place for it?

This might be an OTT comment but I've just been reading an article in The Times today about teenagers who physically abuse their parents. One mother in it said she had no idea why her son was so abusive to her - but admitted that her husband was verbally abusive to her. I'm no psychologist but surely children learn behaviours from their parents. The bigger, drastic question here is: do you want your children to grow up thinking this is how women should be treated?

(I don't mean that in a harsh way, OP)

Please don't stay with him for them. I'm a product of such a marriage and it's awful. It makes me nauseous, knowing how ill it made my mother to be there year after year, how her life was robbed from her. How his bullying turned to us too, and our childhoods were lost to it. I'm sorry, I have no advice for you about how to make it work.

But I can't leave. That's the point of this thread. To seek support from others in a similar position. I'm sure there are many out there like me.

With regards to custody, I am on mat leave but have a full time job. Without giving too much detail, H doesn't really work atm. He could easily make out that he's the primary care once I return to work in the new year. He has a lot of assets and investments whereas I have none. He would also get mil to move in with him if we split to provide care. The dcs are very close to her. Under current circumstances I could see him getting at least 50/50 custody, if not full custody as he would employ Carter Ruck or similar expensive lawyers. I cannot risk losing my children.

Yes you can leave but you are simply too afraid to do so because of the methods he could employ e.g highly expensive Solicitors and accountants to hide his money. Still not a reason not to leave him though, you will be completely destroyed by him if you were to stay. You've already been abused today by him reducing you to tears and this day is not yet finished.

You need proper legal advice and fast, what you are writing is pure supposition. I think you are more powerful than you realise but his abuse of you has made you further doubt your own judgment which is what he wanted all along really. He wants you to remain barefoot and unsure of yourself; that keeps you in the hole he has dug for you.

I take it as read that his mother is just as awful as he is; this type of abusive behaviour is often learnt from either one or both parents.

There are many out there like you who are similarly suffering but the long and short is that you cannot make this work out well for you or your children. Staying just prolongs the agony for you and your children; you cannot even begin to try and fully shield them from what is happening to you and by turn them within your home. They see you and learn from you both.

He's a typical narcissistic type using names like Carter Ruck to further frighten you into total submission.

Your parents must likely be very worried for you; enlist their help also in order to escape him. Your situation is awfully similar to another MNer I read of and she has recently managed to escape her NPD husband as well so it can be done.

he wont get sole residence unless you have very serious issues .
it would be fifty fifty. shared residence.

you wont lose your children - even if you dont end up seeing them every day.

you will need childcare anyway when you go abck to work...iof h is available yes he might be the carer for them.

but that should not stop you having fifty fifty.

what is in best interest of dc?
staying living in this environment?

no

have you talked to womens aid and/or a cousnellor to see how much you are "not without blame" ?
have you read "why does he do that"? read it and speak to a counsellor/womens aid...

Thanks for the comments

I think I'm at the start of a long journey

there's a lot more to say, not least, filling you in on my poor behaviour in all this (essentially being pushed and goaded until I snap and start swearing at him. I called him a c* once. He almost never swears or name calls so I am always the one who owes an apology).

Will write more later