Bereavement + parent dating

[MurderOfGoths]

Need some advice, my mum died last year (lung cancer, very rapid), 2 weeks before DS was born. DS would have been her first grandchild.

6 months after mum died my dad met his new girlfriend.

Now I have no problem with dad dating again, if it helps him then that's great. There were some problems at the time as he was very keen on me and my brother accepting her as one of the family, very pushy about it. Couldn't seem to accept that we were handling our grief in a different way to him, and I felt like dad was pushing the new gf in to being DS's grandmother - which is obviously a sore point when my mum never got to meet him.

Things were bad last xmas (first xmas with DS and without mum) as neither me or my brother wanted the gf there on xmas day. Ended up compromising by us visiting dad on xmas eve (without her there) and he spent xmas day with her.

Anyway, things started to improve, I was feeling happier with spending time around her. It got easier. Then went downhill again, turns out I don't like her much. I find her quite hard work and there were a few reasons why she didn't seem to be doing dad much good.

All came to a head about a month ago, DS has an egg allergy and she tried to feed him something without checking it was egg free first. Now she knew about his allergy, but had evidently decided we were just being faddy about it. (Have since spoken to her and discovered she thinks we'd gone to one of those places where you end up with a list of "allergies" that actually aren't). DH pulled her up on it and pointed out that she was putting DS's health at risk.

She spent the rest of the day sulking and moaning to dad about us being mean to her.

Then later on that day (once we'd gone) she told dad that he should remove all traces of mum from the house and move on. So dad ended it. She also had a go at him because he'd taken photos of DS cuddling my aunt (mum's sister) and one of my cousins, but not her. DS had gone to them because he knows and likes them, he hadn't gone to her (probably because she was sulking). But dad was apparently meant to take DS to her.

Have to say I was relieved they'd split, and also quite angry at her wanting all signs of mum removed from the house and expecting DS to be handed to her.

Then a few days later dad got back with her.

Now apparently they are happier together than they were before.

Which is not exactly what I wanted to hear tbh. Horrible as it is, I really wish they weren't together.

Problem is now that dad expects her to be at all family gatherings, and I'm a little uncomfortable with that. I know I can't expect him to hide her away, and wouldn't expect that. But we're now coming across situations like;

• DH's birthday (where he'd obviously rather only have friends/family),
• Xmas (which is a hard time anyway)
• DS's birthday
• my 30th birthday
• the birth of my second child

All quite big/significant events where ideally I wouldn't want anyone I don't actually like to be there. I know I need to compromise, but I also know that it's going to be hard to reach a compromise. My dad can be quick to take offence and finds it hard to see others point of view.

I think I was hoping before that this would be shortlived and dad would move on from her, but it's not looking so likely now.

I just need advice/reassurance really. How on earth do I handle this? I don't want to hurt dad, but I also know I have a tendency to put others needs ahead of my own and have ended up making my mental health quite bad recently due to it. I need a way to deal with this if he ends up with her long term.

Poor you, Murder - awful to lose your mum and not very long ago either. It sounds like your dad needs to back off a bit. My dad met his new partner about 3 years after mum passed away and she has been brilliant - never tried to be "new mum" and even now doesn't always come to family things.

How does your brother feel now? I wonder if Cruse or another bereavement counselling service could help the three of you talk things through and maybe even set some ground rules.

At the very least I wonder if you need to get through that whole year of "firsts" before your dad insists on including her.

She sounds quite selfish, though. Dating a widower means that you accept he had a wife that he loved and still loves, and you can't ask them to erase all those years.

gosh I hope she doesn't want to be present at the birth of your second child? tell me you mean afterwards please?

I doubt you have grieved and with a new baby, then a new step girlfriend there has been to much going on for you to get on with this process.

I would also say what give it says - you dad needs to back off a bit as he hasn't thought about other family members grieving in their own time and space and you didn't have time after your mums death as you were becoming a mum yourself, such a bitter sweet time.

Does this new woman have a family of her own? I wonder why she thinks after 6 months this mans family were ready to except another female in the place of their mum?

I would certainly have a word with your father and tell him you are struggling with it all but she must not take this as a slight on her, you must be allowed to grieve and get over your mum and she will not be eradicated form your life

Now I have no problem with dad dating again, if it helps him then that's great.

I think this was very reasonable and far-sighted of you, not to begrudge your DF another chance of happiness.

However. As said already, you didn't have time for working through grief, and the almost immediate arrival of DS hasn't given you a lot of time to reflect and take everything in. Most likely a host of memories resurface and your DM will always be in your heart.

Whether or not you hit it off with DF's gf, she wouldn't be able to replace your DM for you. Even if this new person in your dad's life was utterly delightful, you miss your mum. So don't feel bad or guilty about that. There is no reason why you and she should ever be forced to spend time in each other's company apart from when DF is present. Stick her name on a joint Christmas card, job done.

I would evaluate each special event as it approaches. You don't want to lose your DF. Maybe think ahead, opt for invite them along with a crowd of others so they're faces in the crowd but included, and she is diluted so to speak? Or a small family (+ her) get-together, at your place or neutral territory.

Run-of-the-mill, mundane stuff: just see how you feel - sometimes you'll probably have very genuine excuses, now and then you might feel strong enough to manage a couple of hours.

With any luck she knows how you feel and won't push to force the pace now she has got back with him.

Never bad-mouth her to anyone least of all your DF. Be civil, cross each bridge as it comes. The capacity for hurt and upset is immense so you have to box clever, don't give her any excuse to put distance between you and your dad. If that day comes it should be by your doing not hers.

Well I tried talking to dad, as DH's birthday is a small informal gathering we wanted to keep it to immediate family and friends, dad has told me he wont be there if she's not invited. I tried to broach it as gently as I could. But I accepted his decision and asked if I could organise some time for just me, him and DS as I haven't seen him alone in a while. He told me he was busy working. Told him I loved him, he replied, "maybe" and hung up.

GiveIt My brother doesn't really talk about how he feels, I know he was adamant he didn't want her there last xmas, but otherwise he says little. Hard for him as he still lives with dad, so has to see her, though I know he goes out a lot nowadays. Makes her suggestion of removing all trace of mum even crueller as she'd be removing stuff of um's from my brother's home too.

We've been through pretty much all the "firsts" now, as mum died in March, most of them involved this same damn argument. Friend reminded me that we never celebrated DS's first birthday because of this.

Ivykaty Yeah, sorry, after the actual birth. Am worried dad'll want to bring her to the hospital in the hours after DC2 is born.

In all of this I forgot to mention that we've actually just had another bereavement, my grandad (mum's dad) died last week. So already on a bit of a low without all of this.

I just want to run away from it all.

Has she moved in? That's bloody quick.

Oh dear.

Your dad didn't like being fobbed off with a suggestion of just him seeing you and his GDS.

I don't think he's going to bend on this. I think you might have to accept that she is in his life for now at least, a plus one. That doesn't mean you have to go further than half way. I wish I could think of another way but i hate to think she could cost you your relationship with your DF.

Your DB must feel like a gooseberry, I wonder how much longer he'll stay.

Hard as it is, I think probably you're just going to have to include her if you want to spend time with your dad. Hopefully, if your dad begins to feel that you have all accepted her then the need to including her may stop becoming so important. I guess it's sort of the twist on the old chestnut of a grown up child having to make clear their alliegence is to their partner instead of their PIL. Very upsetting for you though. Sorry, must be horrible situation.

GiveIt Nope, so why she thinks she gets any say I have no idea.

One reason people (mostly men) move on to another relationship so soon after the death of their spouse,

Is that it is not that they failed at the relationship, it is not like divorce or a split up, where one person left because of failings, they had a perfectly good relationship wipped away from them,

So they don't have the feeling that they are unworthy of love, it is because they were so sucsessful in their previous relationship they feel they can take that and repeat it.

Having my mother die, and Dad move on was hard, really there is no length of time when it would feel right, my sisters were really upset, and step mum is a twonk of the highest order,

but I forced myself to be happy for him as it really made a difference to the loneliness and pain he was experiencing, we discussed it at length, as he had such a hard time over it, He found it a great comfort having someone.

DH's birthday (where he'd obviously rather only have friends/family),

You have to change your thinking, this is your dad's friend, the person he is sharing his life with at the moment, just focus on the good, be firm but kind and fair with her, if you keep rejecting her, homing in on all her faults, you might push your remaining parent away, she may be annoying, pushy and clumsy in her approach. but at the moment she is what your father has chosen to be a part of her life, so for his sake be kind.

Quote I haven't said a single bad word about her to dad or her, even when they briefly split up I kept my opinions to myself. All I've ever asked him is that on occasions which are special to me, DH and DS that we get to choose who is there. The rest of the time I am fine with her being there. Have even made efforts to get to know her.

Stop keeping your opinions to yourself, gently say to her, you were upset at packing mum's stuff away as it felt too soon for yourselves,

Be honest and open about your feelings, this is not the time to suppress anything.

Been there, some years ago now. My mother died 36 years ago, my father 13 years ago, 'stepmother' (could never actually bring myself to call her that) is still alive, but no contact now.

So my mother never knew my husband, let alone my children and SM was the only grandma they ever had. She came along when I was expecting DC2.

We none of us liked her - she was so different from my mum and we did feel dad moved quickly once they'd met, although it was some years after my mother's death and he was very lonely. However, as she also moved into the family home we had to accept it. (Didn't like her children or GC either!!). She was a good grandma to my children, I will give her that, and she was devoted to my father and made him happy.

And that's the point. As far as your father is concerned, she is now part of his family and you cannot exclude her from family occasions without excluding him too. That will be a slap in the face to him and he won't accept it.

We couldn't talk to my father about any of the situation. As far as he was concerned it was all Happy Families (he was probably older than your dad? He was in his late 60s when they met) and we put up with it until he died. Then there was a bit of a spectacular fall-out.

So, unless you want to lose contact, I really think you're going to have to grit your teeth and go along with it. Just make sure if any of your mothers stuff is cleared out, it's cleared out to you.

This is not necessarily true, though, Nanny:

"you cannot exclude her from family occasions without excluding him too. That will be a slap in the face to him and he won't accept it."

My dad's partner is incredibly gracious and will absent herself from some occasions if she feels it is right. I had to twist her arm to get her to sit at the top table at my wedding, because she was concerned about being thought to be usurping late mum's place.

If Murder's dad's partner had common sense she would do the same.

OP, I'm sorry if that reads like I'm crowing about my situation. I think I'm just trying to say that other women appoach dating widowers differently. Have you had bereavement counselling yourself? I would really encourage you to do so. I didn't, and I wish I had done.

Op, it is a difficult situation and I really feel for you. But be honest here, if your DB had a girlfriend, would you invite her to things? I'm guessing you would.

You have to view it like that, this is your father's new partner, not your mother's replacement.

Like it or not, she is effectively family.

DIY Not necessarily, if it was a small gathering and I barely knew her/liked her I probably wouldn't. I am not a social person, very shy in fact, so never willingly choose to spend time with people I barely know or like. I find it too stressful and draining.

Brother actually called earlier, and has said himself that while he doesn't have an opinion on this new gf one way or another he completely agrees that she doesn't need to be at every event.

Did you ever see your dad alone before your mother died?

Yes, quite a lot. Used to be very close to him.

Then that's even sadder. I'm so sorry.

But it sounds as though he has dug his heels in now, and won't give way on principle. So invite her along until he relaxes about it. You don't have to be pally with her.

And of course you don't have to take any photos of your mother down but could put even more up.

I did ask my brother about her removing traces of mum from the house, I have never ever heard my brother sound that angry. He's normally the most laid back bloke in the world, but he was really not happy. Was quite shocking.

My dad's partner is incredibly gracious and will absent herself from some occasions if she feels it is right. I had to twist her arm to get her to sit at the top table at my wedding, because she was concerned about being thought to be usurping late mum's place. If Murder's dad's partner had common sense she would do the same.

That's lovely, and very unusual. Yet, if it were a sibling, or your own DC, would you expect them to leave a new ('replacement') partner at home for a family event?
We do only seem to expect that for older people.

Oh God, Goths...here I am again

Dh's dad passed the day before DD was born. After everything, MIL and I have become very close. She and I have talked about similar situations (dating again) and I think it's true what a pp has said; men totally seem to approach moving on differently. For me, 6 months later would seem soon. MIL doesn't think she'll ever move on romantically. But her own father remarried a year after her mother passed.

In my own experience, when my dad tried to force my and my stepmother's relationship (through divorce, mind you) when it came to my wedding, my DD, I was adamant that I'd be civil with her, but we have never been close so playing Happy Family would not happen at family gatherings.

Especially in your case, as they're dating and have already broken up once, I don't think you owe her or your dad anything for family occasions. After all, this is your branch of the family tree, so to speak. You have a right to say who is allowed in your own home and how they interact with your family. She's got to prove herself to you, not the other way around.

Always nice to see you MummyBeerest :)

Hmm, realised I missed some stuff from the OP (thought I'd written it, turns out I'm imagining that) so unintentionally drip feeding, sorry.

The biggest problem I'm having, aside from feeling rushed by dad and genuinely not getting on with her, is her attitude to my DS.

The egg allergy incident is part of that, and what I missed out was the conversation I had with her after. She said she thought I'd taken him to some quack to get him diagnosed, and still looked cynical even after I told her it was through an NHS paediatrician. But she also boasted to me about the time she babysat for her sister, and her sister told her not to give her child x foodstuff to eat. She decided to "call her bluff" and gave the child that foodstuff anyway! Obviously the child reacted, but she still stands by what she did! Funnily enough, this didn't help my opinion of her.

The other issue was what my dad told me when they split, that she'd been annoyed at a family party because my dad hadn't taken DS to her and taken a photo of her with him. Now if dad had been going around posing everyone with DS I could maybe understand it, but he wasn't, there weren't even any photos of me with DS that day! Dad was taking photos of DS and if someone else happened to be in shot then that was all. But somehow she'd taken great offence at not having shots of her with a totally unrelated child.

Bearing in mind I'm already very sensitive about DS never having met my mum, this one sits very uneasily with me.

I'm ok with her being at family events, but not all of them, and not ones that are primarily about my immediate family unit (me, DH and DS). I would never say she wasn't welcome at other events that were about the wider family - I will raise an eyebrow if she turns up at my maternal granddad's funeral though.

I don't see how you can not invite her without upsetting your Dad. I can imagine that your Dad and her would see it as a huge snub not to invite her. Wouldn't it be easier to include her in everything rather than having lots of ill feeling and risking pushing your Dad away.

You still need to deal with the other issues. The food issue is clearly very wrong but I am not sure why you are getting involved with the photo with your DS issue.

Does she not have children of her own?

I am sorry about your Mum.

I was sorry to hear that your mum has died. Grief is hard work. My mum died in 2005, from cancer when I was 38. I don't have children.

My Dad 'shoved' his new girlfriend in mine and my sister's faces within weeks of mum's death, while we were still numb with grief. We suspect he'd had his 'eye' on her in the last weeks of mum's life but anyway.

I effectively got a telling off from my Dad for not accepting his gf. So I fully relate to what you and others have said. At the end of the year DH and I would take Mum and Dad out for a meal. Mum died in the September. We wanted to take just Dad out for a meal like we would have if mum was still alive, as a kind of farewell to the way it was. As far as he was concerned it was time for us to meet his new gf and I could piss off if I didn't like it. 'Piss off was his exact words to me.' Shocked ? Only a lot. I was so stunned by his attitude I agreed to meet the woman. Not least that for some reason, the cousin of the gf came along too ! This incident is now known in private between my DH and I as, 'the curry debacle'.

I never saw her again, didn't have to, unlike the OP, our paths just don't cross. However, in the Christmas card I got last week from him, along with twenty quid each for DH and I was a suitably ratty, 'letter'. Complaining that there was VAT to pay on the parcel I sent him for Christmas so he would probably send it back to me. That Christmas is cancelled because it's a rip off. Oh, and his new gf is called June. My sister knows about it. The rest is up to me. As in, 'so there'. So, that'll be Happy Christmas then.

I've learned to live with the grief about my mum's death over the years. Then incidents like this come up. It reminds me, not least, of being told to clear their house of things that belonged to us i.e. my sister and I (she couldn't face it so I did it by myself, before work, during lunch breaks and after work) and things we'd like to have as the rest was going in the skip. We needed to have it done before he came back from his four week cruise with his lady friend in April 2006.

Upon his return, he looked at the house, stripped of everything bar furniture and a few knives and forks and crockery and bed linen and just said he was, 'well pleased' with it. He made no further comment. He wasn't even interested in spending Easter with family or tell us what his plans for Easter were. My sister was shocked at the shitty, 'presents' he had bought as, 'souvenirs' from the cruise or destination ports.

I could go on and on not least comment on how and when and where he scattered her ashes despite me asking, in the car on the way back from her funeral where he was going to scatter them. On the day he scattered them, he was more interested in talking to his old business partner about it i.e. he didn't even tell me until after he had done it.