Is our relationship strong enough?

[ganford]

Hello everyone

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this so please do point me in the right direction if not.

I am desperate to have a baby, my husband is not. We are fairly comfortable financially and both have good careers. We are healthy and in our early 30s. We have a very sharing relationship and both do our bit around the house. I love the thought of bringing a little version of 'us' into the world and sharing all the excitement/challenges/joy that would entail.

But my husband isn't committing to anything. When I first brought up the subject he said he really wanted a baby but that we couldn't afford it. I then saved up £3000, which I think is plenty to get started with. When I brought up the subject again, showing how our financial situation had changed he said 'I'm not sure our relationship is strong enough'. Now, in a way I think this is very responsible of him. Yes, of course a relationship should be strong before you have a child. But I thought it was. We have moved country twice in three years with our careers. We once bought a house, moved country and both started new jobs within three months. Those things are all stressful and we got through them. It wasn't easy but we did it.

The last thing I want to do is bully/manipulate him. I can go for months without mentioning anything baby related, even though it is on my mind constantly. But we are now at the stage where most nights I silently cry myself to sleep. In the evenings I say I am going to the gym when really I get there, sit in the car, and sob my eyes out. On the rare occasion I do break down in front of him, he just stares at me and does nothing. Sometimes I try to have a calm, adult conversation about his fears/worries/concerns and politely ask how he thinks our relationship could be stronger. But he offers nothing concrete and it makes me scream inside. Now I think the baby issue is undermining the relationship and we are in a catch 22.

How can I get him to open up? Am I being a mug? Is he just coming up with excuses? How do you know if your relationship is strong enough? Is it unreasonable of me to ask for some sort of timeframe for when he might be ready? Does the phrase 'our relationship isn't strong enough' actually mean he doesn't know if he loves me enough? How can he watch me be so deeply unhappy and do nothing?

Sorry this post is so long, I desperately needed to get it off my chest.

Thank you

OP, you ask how can he watch me be so desperately unhappy and do nothing?

I think you should ask yourself two things. First, does he know how unhappy you are? You say you go out in the evening and cry in the car; please stop - this is your husband - he needs to know and if you feel you really can't do this in front of him, have you asked yourself why?

Second, please stop trying to separate your relationship and the 'baby issue'. They are wrapped up together.

I think Cogito is right to suggest your DH just wants you for himself and not to share you. That might feel like a compliment now but in future - children aside - what if you need to care for a relative? What if you need care and can't be beautiful and charming all the time? Please protect yourself OP because it doesn't sound like your DH will.

OP I've not read all the thread but I think you should always listen to what someone says and watch what they do. Then the need for analysis goes out of the window.

Your DH says your relationship "is not strong enough." OK, no need to ask what that means - it's simple: he loves you but not enough to have a child with you for whatever reason. He is allowed to think/feel like that and you now need to decide what you want to do.

You both sound very career focussed but now your biological clock is making noises and you feel ready to TTC. He doesn't.

The question you need to ask yourself, OP is are you prepared to choose a possible child over your DH? Be clear in your mind what YOU want most and then I think you need to sit him down and be totally clear with him what you need.

He can either say yes I love you so much that we can TTC because a child will make you so happy and I want to bring another person into the world who has a bit of you and me in them or, he can say no I don't want to do this.

This will be a very difficult discussion to have but I think you must have this conversation and probably quite soon. Then you have your answer and then you will know what choices you face.

I think that by hiding your true feelings from him is not helping matters (although I totally understand why you are doing this) as he needs to know how much having a child means to you.

You face a very difficult time OP but better to find out where you stand with DH than spend more time worrying and fretting. I wish you well and hope you get the result you desperately want. x

Mrswalker13 - he does know. I have told him how it consumes me, but I chose not to show it all the time because I did't want him to think I was emotionally blackmailing him. I do cry in front of him sometimes (and would always do so re any other subjects/problems) and feel comfortable doing so, I just didn't want it to be perceived as a cheap tactic to get him to agree to having a baby. It's so tricky to get the balance right!

But following on from that we had a really good conversation tonight. He said I shouldn't hide how I feel at all. I asked why he didn't respond when I broke down previously and he said he simply had no idea how to react because I was clearly so deeply distressed and at the time he wasn't ready to say the words I wanted to hear. I have told him for future reference to just hold me/bring me tea/chocolate/gin/do anything to show he has noticed.

And the really good news is that we have agreed to start trying for a baby at Christmas. Unbelievable. He said he is 100% committed to me and having a family with me, he just doesn't want to lose our bond as a couple when we have children. Until Christmas we are going to spend some serious quality time together and talk about parenting etc. I think the conversation really hammered home the strength of my emotions, plus the biological time factors, plus the fact there is never ever a 'right' time to have a baby, plus the fact he needed to stop making up bullshit excuses about the strength of our relationship that wrecked my brain.

Good work team mumsnet! Thank you!

Well done. I wouldn't have too many parenting conversations though. You don't know what it is till you do it!

Well done! That must be a huge relief, and a big step forward.

However

plus the fact he needed to stop making up bullshit excuses about the strength of our relationship that wrecked my brain. watch this one.

Noted! I used to work as a nanny and am already quite selective about what I tell him from that experience... Fishing out poo from paddling pool, for example!

Charcoal briquettes... It seems to have been a seriously ill thought out rabbit in headlights stalling tactic. Not cool at all, especially when he also said we should communicate better! I will certainly keep an eye on it. Perhaps I am being naive but I do think/hope it was just a really dumb man moment. I guess only time will tell.

Possibly a weird question, but are you sure that YOU want to have a child with this man, even now that he is supposedly on board with the plan after a lot of foot-dragging? I would be wary. And I say that because parenting is the hardest thing I have ever done and I have seen it wreck some rock solid relationships, you have to be so motivated and in love with the idea to get through the rough bits. You really do. If someone is ambivalent or emotionally absent they are not going to be the greatest parent ever. Do be careful and think seriously about what his indecision says about the kind of parent he will be.

Oh well done! So glad he came through. I love it when a plan comes together Just make sure you hold him to the starting-at-Christmas thing! Maybe some nice underwear.

My DH is like this. Some people are genuinely unable to discuss strong feelings or deal with them in others. It does make the emotional side of ttc/pregnancy/parenthood hard, but on the other hand a practical, unemotional person can be a huge help in those early days. My DH is a good father and was able eventually to admit he did want a child -- but late enough that we then had to do expensive fertility treatment.

My question to you is - do you have good friends and family around you? Because you will need emotional support from somewhere, and it doesn't sound like it's going to be from your DH.

Ganford.... I do hope so, and wish you all the best for the exciting and hopefully loving and fulfilling journey.....

Hi OP. Great that you've had this talk and got results!

My DP was very like this in our early 30s. I really wanted to start having children and he was just never ready, it never felt right, he wasn't sure about it/us/him being in the right place (having said previously he did want them). When I pinned him down on when he thought would be a good time he said "errr, when we're 40?" He was completely unrealistic about what that could well mean - much less chance of conceiving, higher risk of problems, and maybe the unpleasantness of going through IVF for me.

When it came down to it he was scared and simply didn't want to change the life and relationship we had for something that might not be as good. In one way, that's a reasonable way to think, because having DC does turn everything upside down and it is hard, hard work (especially as we have no family support). If you're not the one with the unstoppable biological desire, which I was too, then rationally you are more likely to be terrified and see more of the downsides.

I'm just posting in case despite your DH's change of heart he wavers when it comes to it. I totally, totally understand what you mean about not wanting to cry on him all the time and feeling like it's emotional blackmail - I felt exactly the same. But what I did do was just say to myself, how I feel is as important as how he feels, and because his feelings match the status quo, they have no need to hide. So I didn't hide my feelings. I cried when I cried and I would calmly say "I'm feeling upset again at the moment." If seeing someone else with a baby upset me I would just say so. If you don't do it like emotional blackmail it isn't - it's just expressing yourself. I think this helped my DP see it really wasn't something he could just brush away.

We now have two DC but I don't think my DP would ever have got there without me doing what I did - whether you call that pressure or communication or whatever. And he would have regretted it, I know that for sure.

So you're planning to TTC with a man you know lies and manipulates you and is cruel and distant in order to get his own way?

Yeah, good luck with that.

I think that's a bit unfair Join. I must have seen literally hundreds of woman on MN who have wantonly and willingly conceived with men far less up to the job than this one, yet they do it anyway, because they refuse to remove the scales from their eyes, and then a few years later they are on here moaning about what how abusive selfish, feckless, selfish and cruel their ex was, and it turns out he was all of those things before they even got PG!

I don't think you can label this man a liar and a manipulator on the strength of what we know - he just sounds a bit scared and unwilling to give up the good years just yet - and let's face it, we all know they are the good years; great jobs, nice house, good dual income, active social lives, can go out or on holiday at the drop of a hat, etc.

He just has to appreciate that having children will always change that to some degree, but if he wants the OP to be able to conceive without too many difficulties and leave enough time to have a subsequent second child then they need to have a plan. Its not fair to leave her dangling with no plan. If the relationship did fail it's ok for him, he can go and get someone else PG no matter how old he is.

Personally I's still be a bit concerned about his relationship comment though. Has there been a rocky patch?

To me this man does not want children with you. He is not sure that he wants to stay with you. If he really loved you and wanted to make you happy he wouldn't hesitate

You are being very simplistic. I have almost firsthand experience of this with my dsis and her dh.

He loves her deeply and passionately. He was worried about kids as he is probably ASD - he likes calm, quiet and peace and order. He understood the chaos a child would bring (He is one of 4 with 2 of his siblings much younger). He is also passionate about his hobby and knew a child would encroach on this. It wasn't anything to do with how much he loved her. So, why should she insist on kids if she loved him and knew it would be almost more than he could take? In the end (and it took years) he loved her enough to say yes to the child, and although she wants more, she is willing to take that much. And yes, he loves his child very much, and does not regret having a child. However, he also would not say he is happier now than before. He is happy that my dsis is happy though.

If he really loved you and wanted to make you happy he wouldn't hesitate.

Well a) he's said yes and b) It's not like buying someone a diamond necklace. Any man worth his weight knows 'giving someone a baby' is about becoming parents together. A LOT of men find that commitment as hard as marriage, all over again. It's because they are men who THINK, not because they are selfish.

Mary your story says that in the end he loved her enough to say yes.

Yes, after 10 years. Not some quick decision. This guys been given 5 minutes by you guys!

I agree with Merry you cannot expect someone who is deeply uncomfortable with the idea of being a parent to just capitulate to make their partner happy. BUT I would fully expect people to discuss these things before they commit to each other for life!

How on earth can you end up married to someone without knowing them well enough to know how they feel (or are likely to feel) about these things, and how can you talk about wanting to spend the rest of your lives together without having had the children discussion? I don't get it!

In dsis's case, he changed his mind They were very young, straight out of uni, so she was happy to wait a few years as it wasn't a pressing issue. As he 'grew into himself' he realised it was something he really didn't want. It can happen that people change their minds, or don't discuss it if it thoroughly when it seems a long way in the future.