Relationship woes, no sex, other woman/ women? Sorry long!

[harrowandcall]

Dh and I haven't the best marriage. We haven't had sex for years and are kind of friends. We have a laugh sometimes and co-parent. We have been together about 20years.

Over the last few years there have been times when he claims I am nasty to him and then he has said some pretty horrid things but maybe I have to him. He has given the impression he does not respect me as a mum, in my job and generally. I am a bit of a nag and have resented the fact he doesn't seem to find me attractive so maybe have made some comments but don't believe I have ever been properly nasty.

He is very successful and quite good looking. The kind of man younger women might go for. He does not wear a wedding ring and never has and claimed all along that it is because he finds them uncomfortable which might be true. He was a ladies' man before we met but then again had not actually slept with loads of women. A lot of flirting and talk.

He doesn't make much effort to think about my feelings but maybe I am needy and I have been insecure over the years but then I think that is partly as I never had much affection and reassurance from him.

I'm not convinced he really loves me now. He sort of does probably in his own way maybe but I have a theory and I am worried...

Could he have been making out that I am nasty, not very attractive etc. to justify his own dalliances with other women?

I have found an email discussing lunch with a woman at work but it might be they are just friendly. He doesn't tell me much about his work life and says he likes to keep things separate. He goes on a lot of business trips too. I have seen another email in the past about a dodgy sounding too- around the time the worst of his comments occurred. I can't ask him re this as shouldn't have seen them.

I am a bit negative sometimes so might be reading too much into things.
We had a weird conversation the other week where I said if he ever strayed I'd really rather know and then he said 'why, what would you do?' and then commented he would probably have nothing to gain by telling me (but he might have been acting like that as he felt under fire by me even raising the subject?) Seemed odd as no matter how he'd asked, if it were the other way round I'd have said something like 'I love you and I wouldn't do that but if I did I would tell you' or some such.

I feel unloved, unfancied and a tad suspicious. Am I being unreasonable or fair?

You're not being unreasonable. 20 years of this treatment and your self-esteem is at rock bottom. You say you're negative but anyone would be in the circumstances. Look at the words you use to describe yourself.... nasty, a nag, not attractive.... that's what happens when you stick around someone who treats you so dismissively. I'm struggling to see how you regard a man like that as a friend.

I think it's plain as the nose on your face that he uses his business trips to hook up with other women. As for 'nothing to gain by telling you'.... that's because he has it all mapped out. Crushed and neglected wife running around after him at home. Who knows what waiting for him outside.

Sorry you're in this situation but, quite frankly, I think he's been taking the piss for years.

Anchel, with respect it looks like you are trying to sell your toys which isn't really the answer here.

Anyone else with views very welcome.

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I feel really really bad for you. You counter every thought you have with doubt. You don't have any self belief left at all and think you are nasty, a nag, unattractive yet view him as some kind of charmingly beautification of the male species. He's really done a number on you hasn't he?
Why would you want to stay any longer in the marriage? What is in giving you? Because it sounds bloody miserable to me and life is too short to waste on things that make you miserable.

ditto

Maybe I was always like this. A cup half empty person about myself?

I have decided the lunch with the colleague is not a problem but it annoys me that he hides this. My guess is he does not feel comfortable talking about it because I feel insecure and will go on at him. Not a good way to be as a couple. The more he is secretive, the more insecure I feel.

I have no actual evidence he has been unfaithful, how do I find out the truth as he won't tell me? The nasty comments around the time he was staying out later and seeing some random friends from work a couple of years ago seem suspicious in retrospect.

He does not provide any positive feedback and yet I know I am vaguely attractive, quite smart, so he has not ruined my self esteem. It probably sounded more like it from what I wrote than it is. I do not think he thinks highly of me though. I am stating fact that he is attractive and successful. Loving no.

He would say that I am self-centred etc. but I only asked for someone to love me.

A few questions

Does he tell you what hotel he is staying in when he goes away, or does he say you can always contact him by mobile?

Do you have access to his phone or is it password protected and kept on him at all times?

What would he say if you announced you were going to accompany him on business trips? There is no reason why you can't as he'll have a double room as standard.

When my DH was cheating on me the answers to the above were very telling. I also discovered that practically every successful man in his line of business was either having or had had affairs with much younger colleagues.

If you feel in your gut something is wrong, something probably is.

"He would say that I am self-centred "

For wanting to be loved? Isn't that a pretty fundamental concept in a marriage? Don't they even stick it in the vows... 'love, honour, etc'? You want affection and he gives you criticism and makes you doubt yourself. You want love and he doesn't think very highly of you.

You don't need evidence that he's shagging around. He may even be perfectly faithful... who knows.... but truth is you could kick him out on his sorry arse for just being a nasty piece of work that shows you no respect, doesn't take you seriously and enjoys bringing you down. No more justification needed than that.

Answers below:

Does he tell you what hotel he is staying in when he goes away, or does he say you can always contact him by mobile?

• not unless I ask. It wouldn't cross his mind to need to tell me that though as I can contact him on his mobile. I don't tend to call him. He calls us a bit. OK he actually calls the DCs and might have a one min chat with me. He does not mention what he does in the evenings, whether anyone else was on the trip and I know that sometimes there have been colleagues. Sometimes male, sometimes female. He is not chatty and does not think it is important to share such info. I do think this is genuine rather than designed to cover things up.

Do you have access to his phone or is it password protected and kept on him at all times?
At one stage a password appeared on it and he said work had asked them all to add one as they were concerned about data security if phones got lost (he does not work for MI5!) This happens to have been during the stage when he was not being very nice about me. Now he does have a password but I know what it is. I imagine he would delete anything dodgy before he got home.

What would he say if you announced you were going to accompany him on business trips? There is no reason why you can't as he'll have a double room as standard.
It wouldn't be feasible as no-one to stay home with the dc's. The trips are to lots of different places so unlikely there is always a dodgy event on all of them and I don't think there is but maybe sometimes.

When my DH was cheating on me the answers to the above were very telling. I also discovered that practically every successful man in his line of business was either having or had had affairs with much younger colleagues.

If you feel in your gut something is wrong, something probably is.
I have a suspicious mind though so I always see stuff when there isn't and that's why I can't trust my gut now.

I am not sure WHEN he would cheat at home as he does normally get home at a decent time now. I do not think anything ongoing is happening but he might be in that stage where he has justified occasional stuff because I am supposedly not nice to him, unattractive or whatever.

It isn't a certainty that he has been unfaithful in my opinion. You are not being unreasonable in being suspicious though-a truly frank and open discussion is clearly called for. Maybe be prepared for the worst possible outcome. If you suspect he's lying after/during said discussion then you must go with your intuition.

Realistically, are you just with him for the kids?

It sounds like you get nothing at all out of this relationship other than the odd laugh here and there (you can get a box set of the Inbetweeners for that!)

If you are getting zero affection and haven't for years then he is almost certainly getting it elsewhere!

If you both want to stay together for the kids then fine but why not discuss an open relationship and then you too can get some attention. Seems to be all on his terms and to be sounds like the marriage is dead.

It doesn't sound like an OW to me, as if there was one on the scene he'd glue himself to his phone in case she tried to contact him when you had access to it.

There's really no set pattern for affairs and no set form of behaviour either. I know someone who has a complete other PAYG phone so that they can communicate to their lover, for example. Affairs don't always take place outside office hours either. This man has 'cheat potential' written all over him but, even if he didn't, his rejection, insulting and dismissive attitude towards the OP must be contributing to this black hole that used to be their confidence.

I think you're right. I suspect he is not cheating on an ongoing basis but it's the other behaviour that isn't great (understatement) so maybe I should focus on that. If I am honest, cheating would make it easier to bring things to a head than simply not being happy.

I guess all people are 'cheat potentials'.

Just from reading your first post I immediately thought he's not trustworthy, acting too cagey.

regardless of whether he is cheating or not (but I think he is/has done several times) - I wonder why you are with him. He makes you thoroughly miserable, your self esteem is on the floor and he treats you like dirt. I wonder why you stay, it can't be good for children to see their father treat you with such dismissal. Don't you, and them, deserve so much better than that?

I've no idea whether he's cheating, but he certainly has plenty of opportunity if he was so inclined.

Do you feel you would only be justified in ending the relationship if he were actively unfaithful?

Because I think his appalling treatment of you, including total lack of respect, is quite bad enough.

It's interesting that you when you said if he ever strayed you would rather know, his reply was that he would have nothing to gain from telling you. Only seeing it from his own perspective, as if your concern was invalid.

It's quite telling too. If my H said he'd rather know if I were cheating, I'd reply I'd rather know if he was too. If I replied 'I'd have nothing to gain from telling you' he would be very worried indeed.

He is a bit odd/ different so won't give the answers to questions other people give or the ones that I would want to hear to be reassured but I did find the response to the I'd want to know if you were playing away question unsettling.

He probably thought oh not this chestnut of her being insecure again but it is not like I ask that every night.

I have probably picked out his meaner comments, said in the heat of the moment but I worry that is what he really thinks. He was quite horrid in what he said a couple of times when he got drunk (rare thankfully) and don't people say people say the truth when drunk? He said I was just like someone in my family he knows I truly would hate to be likened to as they are unpleasant characters and crazy (I'm absolutely sure I'm not but I am more like them than he is).

He is behaving a bit better lately. Fewer of the nasty comments in arguments but there is still a lack of what other people would see as love.
There IS a lot wrong with the relationship but the LTB is so hard. He has all the power financially. I worry about the DC etc.

Yes I would find it easier to call it a day if I found evidence of something.

You've got nothing on the guy, and you're trying to get him to fess up to something you don't even know if he's doing. Others are just having a nice little field day being asked to speculate.

'Announced that you're coming on his business trip'.... Yeah, as if. My work phone contains client emails addresses for instance which is confidential information, and needs to be protected using a password.

Deal with what you do know, which is that YOU are clearly unhappy, and move on from there. If you feel that bad, why hang around unless you find something suggesting an affair? - you clearly don't trust him anyway. Who knows, after 20 years of apparently no love, you might be doing both of you a favour by calling it a day.

The trouble with living in this kind of environment is that you lose sense of what is normal. You've adapted to tolerate the bullying, the nasty comments and lack of affection over time. Saying you're just like old batshit crazy Auntie Nelly is offensive and someone who loves you would not be deliberately setting out to stick the knife in.

This is compounded by your belief (which I think is wrong incidentally) about having no financial power if you 'LTB' and so you feel trapped and not in control of your own life. Put all that together and it's a recipe for depression, anxiety and a host of other problems.

I'm glad he's behaving a bit better but the danger is that you're confusing 'cessation of abuse' for 'kindness'. And he really doesn't sound kind.

He may have convinced you he has 'all the power financially' but he doesn't. After 20 years of marriage, assets accumulated during the marriage would be split 50:50.

I'm not trying to persuade you to leave him, just to let you know that you are not powerless in this situation, and that if he thought you might actually leave him for his behaviour, he might think twice about being such an arsehole.

Just refreshed, xpost with Ola and Cogito.

and you have plenty of reasons to leave him without discovering any infidelity - he sounds utter hell, and you sound downtrodden and so unhappy. You and your children deserve so much more and could be so much happier without him.