Relationship woes, no sex, other woman/ women? Sorry long!

[harrowandcall]

Dh and I haven't the best marriage. We haven't had sex for years and are kind of friends. We have a laugh sometimes and co-parent. We have been together about 20years.

Over the last few years there have been times when he claims I am nasty to him and then he has said some pretty horrid things but maybe I have to him. He has given the impression he does not respect me as a mum, in my job and generally. I am a bit of a nag and have resented the fact he doesn't seem to find me attractive so maybe have made some comments but don't believe I have ever been properly nasty.

He is very successful and quite good looking. The kind of man younger women might go for. He does not wear a wedding ring and never has and claimed all along that it is because he finds them uncomfortable which might be true. He was a ladies' man before we met but then again had not actually slept with loads of women. A lot of flirting and talk.

He doesn't make much effort to think about my feelings but maybe I am needy and I have been insecure over the years but then I think that is partly as I never had much affection and reassurance from him.

I'm not convinced he really loves me now. He sort of does probably in his own way maybe but I have a theory and I am worried...

Could he have been making out that I am nasty, not very attractive etc. to justify his own dalliances with other women?

I have found an email discussing lunch with a woman at work but it might be they are just friendly. He doesn't tell me much about his work life and says he likes to keep things separate. He goes on a lot of business trips too. I have seen another email in the past about a dodgy sounding too- around the time the worst of his comments occurred. I can't ask him re this as shouldn't have seen them.

I am a bit negative sometimes so might be reading too much into things.
We had a weird conversation the other week where I said if he ever strayed I'd really rather know and then he said 'why, what would you do?' and then commented he would probably have nothing to gain by telling me (but he might have been acting like that as he felt under fire by me even raising the subject?) Seemed odd as no matter how he'd asked, if it were the other way round I'd have said something like 'I love you and I wouldn't do that but if I did I would tell you' or some such.

I feel unloved, unfancied and a tad suspicious. Am I being unreasonable or fair?

Cogito's right that you may have lost touch with what is normal in marriage.

By way of comparison, my parents have been married for 45 years, they sometimes bicker, sometimes make the other furious, what passion they once had is probably long gone (I don't wish to know), but there's a fundamental respect on both sides for who the other person is and what they can do. That is what is lacking here.

I do know it isn't normal deep down to be like this. There is no love or sign of love from him.

Whenever I have raised my concerns and grips eg. no support when shit is happening in my life, he always turns it round and says it is the same for him from me but I don't believe that is the case and I would be there for him I swear. I do listen to any work issues and try and help for example.

I do think I have portrayed him as more of a bastard than he is though in my OP as it is taking select comments out of context. He is not loving and says blunt things but he isn't intentionally mean (not making excuses).

ola, fair point about accusing him when I have no evidence. I have an over-active imagination. That said he has shown no interest in that way in me for years, has said I've let myself go (I categorically haven't but hey I am not 25 anymore) and has lots of opportunity plus the odd comments and some odd behaviour, I think I'd be naive not to wonder if he gets up to stuff elsewhere.

I did not accuse him btw, merely said 'if you did...I'd want to know' which is not ideal but not as bad as 'you bastard, you've been having it away with the secretary on your desk' or similar!

Gripes not grips.

Also to add, we tried counselling a few years ago but he didn't like what he was being asked to do (e.g. to cherish your wife) and debated everything with the counsellor and did not go back.

To be honest I don't think you have made him out to be worse than he is, you have been measured and balanced in reporting what he has said, and been at pains to make clear that you may be at fault yourself.

However it's the small things you say that speak volumes: that he doesn't respect you as a mother or for your work. And you say it casually, as if it were normal, as if it were fair enough.

To anybody in a functional relationship the idea of having to live with someone who does not respect you is appalling.

Rather than portraying him as 'more of a bastard than he is' I think you have minimised it, I think that is probably how you've got through the last 20 years.

Just refreshed again: seriously? What did the counsellor make of him?

I see what you mean now about the work and as a mother thing. Other people I know go out of their way to say I am very good at both, when they have no need to say anything, so I know that he is not being fair on that.

The counsellor was bemused and whilst maintaining professionalism, I could see she did not know what to make of him and could see he can be difficult.

Difficult is one word for it. Arrogant selfish shit would be a few more. Stripping it down to as simple an instruction as 'cherish your wife' ... a given, surely? ... and then for him to argue the point is appalling. It's like me telling you to 'love your children'. Of course you love your children.

I also think you've given quite a measured account. You're waiting for some big Terrible Thing to happen before you can justify breaking free. I think it's going to be some minor throwaway comment that finally nails the coffin lid down on all this.

Absolutely none of this sounds good.

I think if you were 6 weeks away from him by accident you might see the situation differently.

I'm glad you've got people around you reflecting who you truly are rather than the distorted picture.

You say he doesn't make 'much effort' to think about your feelings, but rather than inferring that he is not a sensitive or caring person, or perhaps even that he's not very nice, you blame yourself for being 'needy' or 'insecure'. You also say he makes you out to be 'nasty', 'not very attractive.

Making an effort to consider your partner's feelings, thinking they are a nice person, and that they are attractive, are fairly basic aspects of a relationship, you have none of that.

I think you are excusing his behaviour by finding faults in your own, blaming yourself rather than him because he blames you. Perhaps he's convinced you and himself that you are the problem, then he doesn't have to take responsibility for his own behaviour.

I don't know whether he's negatively spinning you to justify involvement with other women, but whatever the reason, it's to suit some personal agenda and it's not just unacceptable but deeply damaging to you.

Yes what you put here is exactly my worry/theory:
"I think you are excusing his behaviour by finding faults in your own, blaming yourself rather than him because he blames you. Perhaps he's convinced you and himself that you are the problem, then he doesn't have to take responsibility for his own behaviour."

He feels resentful towards me, partly because some years ago I had some personal counselling (before the marriage session) and also grew up a bit and had some bad stuff happen and I reflected and felt his whole approach of supportiveness imho was lacking and that I was chasing his affections for nothing in return. He was annoyed and maybe upset that I had found his lack of affection ok in the first years of our relationship but then suddenly it, he, wasn't good enough.

It doesn't sound like much of a marriage, to be honest. You don't sound that keen on him, and he doesn't sound that keen on you. You don't have sex.

What is preventing you from moving on from this - the kids? It sounds like he may be emotionally and physically moving on whilst still going through the motions with you. Whilst he should definitely end things with you before doing this, I can see that there is not much in the marriage that he would feel he was being unfaithful to.

He is mean. Telling you you've let yourself go (especially when you haven't) is MEAN. Do you know, OP, when I read threads like these, I know it's wrong but I just wish the downtrodden woman would have an affair - someone to make you feel cherished and adored. Someone who would have more respect for you in their little pinky than your 'D' H. I'm not suggesting it of course . And you're NOT a nag! Nagging is repeating a request. Now why would anyone do that? Because they're being ignored!